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5 years ago ::
May 31, 2008 - 11:50AM
#11
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no familiar, no summoning spells.
he might be strong and versatile, but hes not the wizard i know.
Those will come back.
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5 years ago ::
May 31, 2008 - 3:16PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Aug 29, 2007
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I don't have access to any of the 4th ed classes, so I'm not sure how strong the wizard class is or is not, but IMO if he is weaker or the same power level as 3.5 then his is seriously weak. IMO 3.5 striped the wizard badly.
Uh, what?
The Wizard was the most flexible and dangerous class even in 3.5.
So far, from what I've seen, the Wizard puts out less damage and doesn't have the same breadth of utility spells that he did in 3.5, but he's got more reliable damage and is more in tune with the other classes.
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5 years ago ::
May 31, 2008 - 3:26PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2001
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no familiar, no summoning spells.
he might be strong and versatile, but hes not the wizard i know.
Well, you can give a 4e wizard a familiar, it'as not a big deal - it is just not the uber animal it was in 3.5 but just a "normal" specimen, which might be more intelligent, well it may even talk, but it just has the normal stats otherwise.
3.5 wizard familiars where just too tough (or to weak depends on what you wanted to do with them).
And the wizards in my group seldom used summon spells.
But otherwise the wizards is still a wizard. A lot of his spells became rituals, but this is more or less like these spells should have worked from the beginning. Anybody can try to do it, he can just mess it up if he hasn't the skill (remember Army of Darkness?) :D
Ceterum censeo scrinium puniceum esse delendam
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5 years ago ::
May 31, 2008 - 7:01PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Apr 13, 2005
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Not to mention wizards will be able to use any ritual that they get their hot littlle hands on, including the ones that used to be divine spells. Now wizards can raise the dead and not have to worry about that awful undead smell that wizards of previous editions had to suffer through. :P
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5 years ago ::
May 31, 2008 - 7:05PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Mar 24, 2008
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While I don't mind familiars one way or the other, summoning spells better not make a comeback. Casters in 3.5 not only had their own prodigious abilities, but the abilities of anything and everything they could summon. IMO, summoning was one of the biggest game-breaking mechanics of 3.X.
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5 years ago ::
May 31, 2008 - 7:20PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Feb 27, 2008
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Did the OP confuse weakness with balance? Or did they prefer the hard to manage uber wizard of 3.5? Don't fret i am sure Arcane Power will help creep up the power level just a tad. 
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5 years ago ::
May 31, 2008 - 7:32PM
#17
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Well, you can give a 4e wizard a familiar, it'as not a big deal - it is just not the uber animal it was in 3.5 but just a "normal" specimen, which might be more intelligent, well it may even talk, but it just has the normal stats otherwise.
That's probably for the best.
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5 years ago ::
May 31, 2008 - 8:20PM
#18
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Yeah... While I wouldn't say that Wizards are weak now, they're definitely not the options-for-everything-if-I-prepared-well guys anymore. While that makes the game more balanced, I have a feeling it'll also take the fun out of it for a number of folks who previously played Wizards - not so much because now they can't be more powerful than everyone, but because the extreme versatility + preparation aspect isn't nearly as prevalent anymore.
Wizards seriously kick butt. It's still possible for a Wizard to dish out a boat load of Damage as a Battle Mage. Check out Closing Spell and you'll see what I mean. If you go for Archmage and Take Closing Spell as an Encounter power then recharge it with a Ring of Wizardry and Archmage Spell Shape you can kick out three burst spells that deal 8D10+whatever in a single encounter, plus you get to pick the Energy type.
That's some serious mojo.
That's just 44 average damage a shot... and from what I recall, some of the monsters you'll be fighting have around 1000 HP by then. It'll hurt a bit, but it's not something I'd expect to see make a huge difference.
Not to mention wizards will be able to use any ritual that they get their hot littlle hands on, including the ones that used to be divine spells. Now wizards can raise the dead and not have to worry about that awful undead smell that wizards of previous editions had to suffer through. :P
In part 'cause there're no undead-creating rituals published yet. :P
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5 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2008 - 12:38AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2008
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Many 'middle-ground' monsters have several hundred HP.
The key to the relative strength & weakness of the classes is the extent to which they address key features.
Essentially every class needs some kind of reliable stun, reliable damage mitigation versus the kind of damage they output, positioning features and an at least semi-reliable escape mechanism. At least limited AoE is good to include but not essential.
I don't want to write up a full review of each class, suffice to say that if you take the time to read through the classes (when you get your books) and look for the presence of each of those key features you'll find some have them in spades (quite reasonably) but those that lack them are at a significant disadvantage.
The Mage class as is seems to half toggle between being 'the' AoE class and the occasional control feature.
Further, they lack defensive and positioning options - not such a big deal in the rather static fights of 2e & 3e but I'm confident it'll be felt strongly in the much more dynamic battlegrounds of 4e.
Other classes like the Warlord, Paladin and Priest help make up for these with their own team-based movement features and I can see how the developers may feel that group-based combat that relies on companion classes to fill in the blanks is a suitable method of balance - I'd strongly disagree though, you simply can't rely that any given companion class will be present in an encounter or even an entire adventure.
On a side note, the way I read it - any class can take the Ritual Casting feat.
Not necessarily a bad thing in itself, particularly as the classes are balanced (mostly) about other features.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2008 - 12:43AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2008
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Short Answer: Not weak.
Long Answer: Wizard is balanced, and still has potential to become very powerful, even echoing the power and flexibility it had in 3.5E.
Short Answer Expanded:
To test game mechanics, i have been running the KoS encounters, controlling both the PreGens & Monsters. The Wizard's ability to hose minions is very powerful. In fights w/out minions, the AoE damage component is very effective, as are things like Sleep & Ray of Frost. Although the improved initiative feat given to the PreGen character isn't often considered optimal, i have found it really helps to "maintain control". Having the option to go first, or hold off to see how your teammates roll is very effective when deciding the right time to use a daily or encounter power.
Long Answer Expanded:
If any class is going to gain greater power per new core book released, its the Wizard. The things once part of the Wizard's repertoire that are now marked for the Psi or Shadow power sources may be in the Wizard's arsenal again. Perhaps more than any other power source, Arcane can justify almost any ability. Psi & Shadow may get the abilities at an earlier level, but there is no reason why Wizards couldn't use Arcane to mimic those abilities. Even if not part of published game design, a truly enterprising Wizard can design his own spells using abilities from other power sources as an inspiration. Wizards (and Clerics) may be the most "nerfed" of the classes in 4E compared to 3.5E, but they well situated to expand their portfolio of abilities.
Its really too soon to cry under or over powered on any class. It will take at least a few months in the wild to really decipher the flaws of the system.
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