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5 years ago ::
Jul 10, 2008 - 7:05AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2004
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Doesn't the magic item charts give their item level along with the price?
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5 years ago ::
Jul 10, 2008 - 7:19AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2006
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Doesn't the magic item charts give their item level along with the price?
So +6 plate and +6 godplate cost the same?
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5 years ago ::
Jul 10, 2008 - 7:34AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2004
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+6 plate is +6 godplate. Just think of it as the normal armor not being good enough to hold more of an enchantment than +3, so any higher level armor you find must be of superior quality, since they couldn't bind that much magic to plain steel or leather without it being destroyed.
And, with that in mind, would you ever make godplate if you weren't also going to enchant it up to +6? That'd just be a complete waste of the understandably expensive materials, particularly when you could get the same protection from a lesser suit of armor with an enchantment on it, and with the effort required to make such perfect armor... basically you'd be wasting your time as a smith if you didn't have someone in line to buy and enchant it since it protects you less than cheaper armor.
Just an idea, tweak it as you will until you're comfortable with it.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 10, 2008 - 10:13AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2008
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This armour thing is actually one of the things that ticks me off about 4e (I'm pretty much loving everything else). What is ticking me off is not the fact that it is unclear, or that they got something wrong, but that they almost got it right. It really annoys me that absolutely nothing can be good unless it is magical. 3.x had masterwork and that was close to good. Here we had a chart with special armours that were better in their basic construction because they were forged with (insert fluff here). Then boom, sorry they have to be magical. Why can't we have special armours that are great, and superior, without them having to be magical. Not just armour either. What about any equipment? I would love to have a side quest to seek out the great smith Shmoemacschlubb to craft a fine blade.
Seriously, make, maybe, some racial specialties or whatever. They could have assigned levels to them and made these special items face the same price index - each bump up is 5x the cost (if you haven't noticed that is the universal progression on all magic). So you want darkhide armour? Well that is a level 3 item and costs 150 gp instead of 30 like regular hide. The heavys jump by threes so the cost would be x125. That is right in line with the costs of magic of equivalent bonus.
It just seems the mind set in D&D is that nothing can be good unless it is magical. (Like the 3x camouflage paint. A paint that you applied to increase hide. We have that in real life!!! Yet, in the game it had to be magical - come on people!!!)
Sorry, rant over. 4e happy guy back in chair.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 10, 2008 - 12:39PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2007
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I'm going to houserule the specialty armors so that they can appear mundane.
I was confused by the table when I first saw it also.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 10, 2008 - 3:48PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Nov 28, 2004
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I'm going to houserule the specialty armors so that they can appear mundane.
Really? How will you price them? They would have to be priced higher than an equivilent AC modifier of the same armor so who would want them? Read SilentOne's post again. It makes sense.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 6:54PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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Well, I definitely like the idea of +6 Platemail or Warplate. The issue comes down to pricing. I have not had a chance to do a complete analysis (and am not really certain how I would do so), so let's throw out an idea and let those who are better at the numbers have a stab at it. Since the only armor stat that changes between regular and Masterwork armors is the AC Bonus, the first thing that came to my mind is reducing the level of the item by the difference in armor bonus it would give. So for instance: +6 Godplate Magic Armor (Luxury model): Level 26, Cost 1,125,000, AC:20 +6 Warplate Magic Armor (Deluxe model): Level 23, Cost 425,000, AC:17 +6 Platemail Magic Armor (Econo model): Level 20, Cost 125,000, AC:14 In comparison, a suit of +5 Warplate (a level 21 item) is 225,000, and gives you an AC of 16. This certainly seems in line with the prices presented. So what about "mundane" special material armors? Can the same principle work? I would suggest making it the equivalent, price-wise, of the cost of the armor + the cost of a magic item of the same level of it's increased bonus: Light Armors (Feyweave, Feyleather, Darkhide) +1 bonus over non-magical equivalent = 360 gold + armor cost Light Armors (Starweave, Starleather, Elderhide) +2 bonus over non-magical equivalent = 520 gold + armor cost Heavy Armors (Forgemail, Wyrmscale, Warplate) +3 bonus over non-magical equivalent = 680 gold + armor cost Heavy Armors (Spiritmail, Elderscale, Godplate) +6 bonus over non-magical equivalent = 1,800 gold + armor cost This is where we run into a problem: mundane Godplate: AC: 14 Cost 1,850 +6 Magic Platemail: AC: 14 Cost 125,000 Hmmm... think I know which one I would take.  I don't see any problem with limiting the special materials to higher level armors. It is easy enough to explain that these masterwork materials require a certain amount of enchantment to bring out their special properties. At the same time, there is something to be said for having masterwork armor that is NOT magical, just better than "regular". That is one thing that 3.5 did well - the reduction in check penalties and arcane failure made having masterwork armor worth having. Unfortunately, with the reduction in check penalties for armor in general and the elimination of arcane spell failure completely *still shakes head at the thought of a Wizard in full plate* there really isn't much that can be made a difference by making something masterwork.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 9:19PM
#28
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Well, I definitely like the idea of +6 Platemail or Warplate. The issue comes down to pricing.
Stop right there.
All Plate armor that has a +4 or +5 is actually +4 or +5 Warplate. All Plate armor that has a +6 is actually +6 Godplate. The book clearly states the price of it being included in the magic.
+4 Armor costs between 45,000 gp and 125,000 gp (level 16 through 20 magic item)
+5 Armor costs between 325,000 gp and 625,000 gp (level 21 through 25 magic item)
+6 Armor costs at least 1,125,000 gp (level 26+ magic item)
The reason why the game has the tiers is because the developers decided that they wanted half tiers.
The level 16 bump of +1 for light armor and +3 for heavy armor allows for tougher monsters. Basically a level 15 party fighting level 16 monsters is going to notice a difference (compared to lower levels fighting level+1 monsters). Level 21 already sees its up as Epic level monsters are designed with the assumption that the PCs should be at 2[W] damage for basic attacks and At-Will powers.
Level 26 sees another bump in the attack bonus of monsters.
But the reason heavy armor gets +3 while light armor gets +1 is the comparable "armor advantage."
At level 1 Plate has a +5 advantage over Hide. The most a PC can get from Dex/Int to AC is +5 at level 1. Over 28 levels a PC can easily get +8 to one stat (+10 if a Demigod). So let's use a Rogue as an example. A Rogue starting with a (realistic) 18 Dex will probably finish with either 26 or 28 Dexterity (Demigod). 26 Dex is a +8 to AC.
Without upgrades a Rogue would suddenly be better than a Paladin, even if that Paladin had a Heavy Shield.
So the +2 upgrade advantage improved the +5 advantage to +7, then +9.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 1:56AM
#29
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2008
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Yes a rouge with 18 Dex starting then gets 26 Dex for +8 mod wielding Hide armor for example gets.
So ElderHide Armor with +5/+6 Bonus = 11+your 8 = 18 Armor.
im going to ignore half level and hat. im just going with armor.
GodPlate (14) with +6 = 20 Armor.
So even with your +8 Bonus Mod your still behind the plate mail user by 2 points. and Scale mail by 1 point and Tied with ChainMale.
Of course we can add feats and all to this. and or Shields. in which case AC can improve as well.
But this is just armor vs amror. (With 1 armor getting the mod). As such Rouge still has lower AC then other user. but not by much.
sure the price can be ALOT more then normal. But the game basicly says you have alot of gear and all when your that high level and all (Such as createing character X Level) You just cant go above X level of items. like a level 2 character cant hold items of 2+1 Level Requirement or more for getting his gear.
So yes if we can make level 30 useing the rules so far where you get your X Items of whateverness.
Then yes the rouge is still behind in AC but only by 2 freeken points. You are not even adding in other things. but both side can get the other things. so go with whatever you want.
Level 30 characters are going to have a +6 item face it. there going to.
So ...
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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 7:52AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2004
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Stop right there.
All Plate armor that has a +4 or +5 is actually +4 or +5 Warplate. All Plate armor that has a +6 is actually +6 Godplate. The book clearly states the price of it being included in the magic.
Does it state all +6 is automatically Godplate? Are you contending that if you enhance a normal set of platemail to +6 it changes the armor to an entirely different material than it started as?
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