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Switch to Forum Live View the Familiar gone the way of the Dodo.
5 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2008 - 7:10PM #31
Holy_Beholder
Date Joined: Mar 13, 2007
Posts: 1,480
They are a little on the large side. Somewhat.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 07, 2008 - 8:09PM #32
Arthnek_the_Boar
Date Joined: Oct 29, 2006
Posts: 89
I choose Godzilla, King of the Monsters as my familiar. With his mighty atomic breathe (radiant energy obviously) he battles as a paladin in the defense of myself and occasionally Tokyo in an alternate dimension....on alternate wednesdays....when I give him the day off.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 3:14PM #33
Kevin_Andrew_Murphy
Date Joined: Oct 6, 2002
Posts: 448

Arthnek_the_Boar wrote:

I choose Godzilla, King of the Monsters as my familiar. With his mighty atomic breathe (radiant energy obviously) he battles as a paladin in the defense of myself and occasionally Tokyo in an alternate dimension....on alternate wednesdays....when I give him the day off.


The alternate dimension is Lilliput, and your familiar, Godzilla, is a shocker lizard with one of the umpteen draconic templates to give it a breath weapon. This also explains why it likes walking into the Lilliputians' power lines.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 12, 2008 - 9:54AM #34
jeffepp
Date Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Posts: 125
I would guess that part of the problem with familiars is that they would have to be Minions. And, this means that they would be VERY susceptible to instant death, and there controller/master/owner would then be subject to what ever penalties would ensue. So, in this light, familiars become much more of a liability than a benefit.

I also expect that there will be some kind of advanced animal companion system the future. Mounts for the marshal classes, companions for the ranger, etc.

Remember, before 3rd ed, familiars were something you had to spend money on, and may never get. The automatic thing is in 3rd ed only.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 12:45AM #35
simplyscribed
Date Joined: Dec 18, 2006
Posts: 90

remoray wrote:

Team up with another player, so that one of you is the wizard and the other is the familiar.

The player that is the familiar chooses the druid class and uses the wild shape ability to take the form of the wizard's familiar on a near-permanent basis.

pros:
- legal under current rules


Since the current rules are 4e, and 4e doesn't yet have a druid, there is a slight problem with both the viability and legality of your suggestion.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 1:56AM #36
Valdrax
Date Joined: Dec 9, 2006
Posts: 1,571

Merlord wrote:

Summoning was changed not because of DDI, but because in order to use it, the summoner ends up taking more time at the table (to control creatures and to take their own turn) slowing down the game. WOTC has also promised summoning will be back when they solve these problems.


I think I've got a partial solution or two for this. I've got some pet-based classes on the backburner for when I get finished tinkering with my Monk design. Each experiments with a different mechanic: minion summons for the Conjurer & Necromancer (encounter powers, supported by the lifeforce of the summoner), allied creature as bonus damage source for my Beastlord Striker/Defender hybrid (which basically uses the creature as an extra attack, a la the Ranger), and summoner replacement (a la FFXII) for my Lurker-like Shaper class.

The core element of each variation is that no pet can act independently. Making a pet attack requires the sacrifice of an action by the PC. It's kind of the core at-will power of the class.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 2:02AM #37
Valdrax
Date Joined: Dec 9, 2006
Posts: 1,571

jeffepp wrote:

I would guess that part of the problem with familiars is that they would have to be Minions. And, this means that they would be VERY susceptible to instant death, and there controller/master/owner would then be subject to what ever penalties would ensue. So, in this light, familiars become much more of a liability than a benefit.


Not necessarily. Familiars don't have to be corporeal anymore. They could work like the spiritual guardian powers that Clerics get. Think also of the Hexblade's Dark Companion class feature from PHB2 or the spirit guide that the Spirit Shaman got in 3.5.

Also, even if they were corporeal, we could completely remove any penalties for resurrecting / replacing them. The idea of an immortal familiar (so long as the master lives) isn't without precedent. We just don't want them to be useful in combat -- otherwise you have time-taking issues again.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 11:57AM #38
DiamondShade0
Date Joined: Sep 15, 2004
Posts: 11

Valdrax wrote:

The idea of an immortal familiar (so long as the master lives) isn't without precedent. We just don't want them to be useful in combat -- otherwise you have time-taking issues again.


Maybe something like the familliar being a part (1% ?) of the master's soul.
That way he could very well be a minion and a conduit for the spells range.
And if he gets ''killed'', he disappears in a puff of smoke and re-appears after a certain time (like when the master sleeps)

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 2:20PM #39
Kevin_Andrew_Murphy
Date Joined: Oct 6, 2002
Posts: 448
Well, I think the problems with a familiar are as follows:

1. Extremely obvious dependent NPC for kidnapping and/or killing.

2. Extra character for wizard player.

3. Traditionally supposed to help a wizard with spellcasting, but doesn't generally do that.

Possible solutions:

1. Maybe have some death curse attached to killing a familiar. This would prevent most sensible sentients from pointing a crossbow at kitty, but the Tarrasque doesn't care about curses and same with most dumb brutes. Worse, curses are treated as a minor nuisance in D&D, easily fixed by any cleric.

Better solution: Whoever/Whatever killed kitty is haunted by kitty's spirit, inescapably (look at the Taunting Haunt write up, simply turning undead doesn't work) and Mr. Wizard not only always knows where kitty's spirit is (and thus the killer) but can't summon a new familiar until he kills kitty's killer. Obviously wishes and simple raise dead can get around this, and if kitty is killed by a falling block or some dumb beast, even the Tarrasque, it won't bother with a haunting. But sentients? Oh yes.

I think even a mindflayer would be upset at waking up to find a dead cat yowling at him while a wizard in a tower somewhere plots his death, possibly by remote means, such as summoned creatures or simply magically armed assassins.

2. The extra character option is best handled this way: Your familiar is an independent creature, not a hand puppet, and while it is possible for a wizard to herd cats, or at least one particular cat, micromanaging your familiar takes up your action for the round. Otherwise, the familiar is an NPC and will do whatever the DM wants it to do, most of which will be helpful but some of which may be troublesome. Kitty may spot a tripwire and point it out to Mr. Wizard, or kitty may decide it's an entertaining cat toy. (If it's a scything blade trap, set at human height, it's still an entertaining cat toy.)

3. Since familiars are supposed to help wizards with spells, maybe a familiar comes with some appropriate spell attached, and so long as you have the familiar, you can also cast that spell. Or maybe it helps with spell recovery. Whatever. Nothing too wimpy, nothing too unbalancing.

A few of the other 3.x familiar powers are fine as well, all at the appropriate levels.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 13, 2008 - 3:53PM #40
Venardhi
Date Joined: May 5, 2008
Posts: 5
Seems to me there needs to be risk along with the reward. And not simply a cost for converting your favorite squirrel via a ritual.

Consider this:
Getting a familiar would require higher levels, probably above 10, and a feat available only to spellcasters at that level. The feat allows them to create and animate a familiar from whatever their power source is and it takes the shape of whatever you use as a medium for the spell/ritual. It can be a carved idol, a small animal, whatever; granting it intelligence and the ability to communicate with the caster(and to a lesser extent other beings). A part of the character's soul is imbued within the newly animated familiar, linking them magically and spiritually.

Whatever was used in the ritual is completely consumed during the spell, creating a new being from it, which shows aspects of the power source it comes from: A familiar from an arcane source shimmers with arcane energy, a familiar from a demonic source smells of sulfur and appears burned with glowing eyes, etc. This being can return to the 'power source' at any time, or whenver it takes 1/4 the damage of the caster's max HP, where it remains until the caster is well rested and automatically resummons it the next morning(or at will, if he prefers not to have it around).

Their specific uses in combat would be much like the rest of you describe: can be used to channel spells from the caster so he can avoid getting into the frey, or carry out small tasks like fetching a key behind a monster's back while distracted with combat(assuming the monster is inattentive enough not to notice). It has an AC equivalently scaled to the caster, and would be particularly hard to hit, but would go down pretty much the first time it took any reasonable amount of damage. Half of all damage done to it is transferred to the caster who makes a save to resist the 'soul damage'. Each time his familiar dies, the caster has to make a save to avoid losing a turn because of some effect that strikes at his very soul for having the familiar (and thus a piece of himself) forced back to its power source.

if not used in battle, simply having the familiar on or within one square of him boosts a casters +hit with spells by 1 or +spell damage by whatever (choose one when creating familiar). Having a familiar in a square doesn't keep a party member or monster from entering that square.

In any case, I'm basically just rambling. I've been away from D&D for a long time but familiars are one thing I certainly noted missing when I looked through my new 4th edition books.
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