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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 7:01PM
#91
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2005
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I WANT MY POLYMORPH BACK!!!
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 7:38PM
#92
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Date Joined:
Jul 20, 2006
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I agree with OP. I think a wizard needs more versatility and should be treated differently; they already are if you consider spell books and rituals. Actually all the classes could use more powers. Only 2 at wills? Boring. only 4 encounters? That's basically on encounter spell per fight then back to the 1 of 2 at wills for the rest of the fight. Geez.
As Kurama Youko pointed out, your math is a bit off. First of all, if you have 4 encounter powers, that's 4 every fight, not 1.
Secondly, you're forgetting dailies and utilities. No one is saying you have to go "Encounter, encounter, encounter, encounter, then at-will every round after that." Instead, you'd probably open up with an encounter to see where defenses lie, then perhaps an at-will at what you think are minions, then encounter->action point->daily to clear the field, then at-wills for a few rounds while you see how your party's doing, and mix it up from there.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 6:17AM
#93
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2006
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Who says a master of the arcane has a variety of tactics at his disposal? Mages having a few signature spells is very COMMON. If you took fireball, and you're fighting fire elementals, tough. Why SHOULD you have more options than members of another class? You shouldn't.
And THIS is why 4E classes suck ass - folks like this who cant think outside the box. Everyone must be the same! Everyone must be the same! If your not the same your ... different! We cant have that!11!!1
Wizards always had this option before - then to "balance" things out they took it away and wizards have gone from "nuker" to "controller". Some folks can not accept this. Me - I see how they play out - but it just seems that in order to balance things out - that no one stands out anymore. From chainmail to 3.x wizards started the weakest and had the most options in the end.
Instead of making all classes have a good number of options the made it so all of them have very few. So if your in a tough fight, it turns into a spam fest of "at will powers" and you nickle and dime something to death with the same powers over and over again. Not my idea of fun if you ask me.
I am toying with the idea of at least letting my players have 4 at will powers so they have some options in combat rather than just 2 of them (3 if your human)
Wait - Titanium Dragon - since humans get more stuff, shouldnt they get booted from 4E for being to powerful? Tehy get an option no one else does! 
KIDDING!
/end rant
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 6:27AM
#94
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I mean, Magic Missile is 1d6 damage, and when does it gets to 2d6? In the Epic tier... yes, well, you're telling me an Epic character can make only 1d6 more than a Level 1 character with the same Spell? Am I supposed to laugh?
2d4, not 1d6. (Increases to 4d4 at epic.)
Plus Intellect (which will get a +8 increase over the course of your career).
Plus bonus damage from your implement.
So you'll go from something like 2d4+4 to 4d4+14 (+6d6 on a crit). That's a pretty huge jump for something you can do *at will*.
Keep in mind that in 3.5, magic missile capped out at 5d4+5. And it was NOT at will. (And don't get into metamagic -- they cost feats and increased the spell level (unless you spent more feats). 4e will undoubtedly introduce similar mechanics going forward.)
Stop comparing the 4e power curve to the 3e power curve. It's been tweaked across the board to make combat less "bursty" -- you do less damage per round, but can keep on dealing damage forever. It's not weaker or worse. It's just different.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 6:33AM
#95
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Our DM has already moved Cure Light Wounds from a Daily to an Encounter spell.
I'd just like to point out that this is a bad idea, since it allows perfect healing after every combat with zero resource expense. (You can spam encounter powers every five minutes outside of combat.)
There's a reason the per-encounter powers use healing surges.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 6:39AM
#96
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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And THIS is why 4E classes suck ass - folks like this who cant think outside the box. Everyone must be the same! Everyone must be the same! If your not the same your ... different! We cant have that!11!!1
Every time you level up and get to learn a new power, you are choosing one from a list of 4 (or more) options. So two clerics only have a 25% chance of having the same level 2 power. And a 12.5% chance of having the same level 2 and 4 powers. And a 6.25% chance of having the same 2, 4, and 6 powers, etc...
I mean, the only way that all the character would be the same would be if you let them have all 4 of the powers available to them, right?
I am toying with the idea of at least letting my players have 4 at will powers so they have some options in combat rather than just 2 of them (3 if your human)
*cough*
Anyway...have you even played the system yet? Or are you just making the assumption that people will feel like they don't have enough options?
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 6:50AM
#97
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2004
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Stop comparing the 4e power curve to the 3e power curve. It's been tweaked across the board to make combat less "bursty" -- you do less damage per round, but can keep on dealing damage forever. It's not weaker or worse. It's just different.
Not a very apt comparison to make, when you consider that the norm for 3e wizards was to shut down combat altogether with 1-2 key spells, and direct damage stank for most part. You didn't toss a fireball, you blinded everyone with a sculpted glitterdust and let the fighter mop up. :P
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 6:53AM
#98
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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Not a very apt comparison to make, when you consider that the norm for 3e wizards was to shut down combat altogether with 1-2 key spells, and direct damage stank for most part. You didn't toss a fireball, you blinded everyone with a sculpted glitterdust and let the fighter mop up. :P
Either way, it was "Save or Die" in one or two rounds.
I am not sad to see that go.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 7:07AM
#99
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2006
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Right because for someone reason you need to have 10 options for power type? So you're players can sit there and think about which one to use, and flip through the book 3 times per turn. Unless you picked two at will powers that deal practically the same type of damage, you're wizard does not need more than 2 at will powers, and if you're human you already get 3. As far as encounters go, it's just one 1 encounter, then you take a 5 minute break and you get those back, why do you need 9 encounter powers? Even with the current RAW, combat might go 10 rounds, do you not see that if you, I don't know, alternate your at will and encounter powers and probably capping off round 10 with a daily, you'll see that you actually do just fine with the numbers already given?
Round 1: At will,
Round 2: Encounter,
Round 3: At will,
Round 4: Encounter,
Round 5: At will,
Round 6: Encounter,
Round 7: At will,
Round 8: Encounter,
Round 9: At will,
Round10: Daily,
Of course this is just a over simplified version of how a battle might go, more than likely you're gonna use a utility power, more than likely you're going to use a racial encounter power if you have one, you might even use one of the encounter powers obtained via multiclassing feats. Yet for some reason no body else who seem to think the system is so horrible it needs 2/10/10/12 can seem to see this.
As Kurama Youko pointed out, your math is a bit off. First of all, if you have 4 encounter powers, that's 4 every fight, not 1.
Secondly, you're forgetting dailies and utilities. No one is saying you have to go "Encounter, encounter, encounter, encounter, then at-will every round after that." Instead, you'd probably open up with an encounter to see where defenses lie, then perhaps an at-will at what you think are minions, then encounter->action point->daily to clear the field, then at-wills for a few rounds while you see how your party's doing, and mix it up from there.
Granted this is everyone's first impression since no one has really played 4e very far. It could work out fine. But it is a drastic change from previous editions. The 4 encounter/4 dailies could be enough but it doesnt seem like it. Really though I have to say that just 2 at wills seems so boring. Would it really hurt to have more? Same damage range and power level just different powers. Why not go with 4/4/4/7?
And honestly I have no idea how long combat will last now. But in looking at the KotS it seems like monsters have A LOT of HP now and it could take many rounds to finish. With the damage output of powers so low it just seems like there's not enough.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 8:00AM
#100
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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If a wizard can have a spell to handle every situation, why the hell does he need anyone else in his adventuring party?
D&D is a group game, and to keep the game fun, that means that in some situations any given character shouldn't have the right answer available. Being able to defeat anything that comes your way should be a team effort, not a personal one.
If you are a wizard that specializes in fire, maybe your character should do some concentrated research to find what harms creatures that are resistant to your abilities the most, lets just say cold. Then you work with the fighter to get him an awesome cold sword that will allow him to dominate the fire resistant creatures. Then as a party you are prepared for whatever comes up. You will still probably have 2 encounter abilities and an at will that are applicable in a given fight even if they are fire resistant, maybe they aren't your best attacks, but you will hardly be helpless...it will just be someone else's chance to have "just the right thing" prepared.
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