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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 3:47PM
#931
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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A personality who eschews fire, and is concieved so that it is ineluctably certain that at no future date will she change her mind about that, will not choose a fire power on advancing from one level to the next.
So what? All that means is that some roleplaying concepts and some optimizing concepts are incompatible.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 3:48PM
#932
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A personality who eschews fire, and is concieved so that it is ineluctably certain that at no future date will she change her mind about that, will not choose a fire power on advancing from one level to the next, even if her next pick must perforce be suboptimal.
It is easy to find examples of valency between roleplaying and mechanical build.
vk
Your theory is somewhat sound here, but you have to give us a specific instance where this is true. At what level and class are we talking that a person gets to choose between such options? We have to see these powers before we can gauge if one is definitely suboptimal. Part of optimization is finding ways to capitalize on what would normally seem like a suboptimal choice, in an optimal way.
Moreover, no person is "ineluctable". People can change.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 3:56PM
#933
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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Yes: 2 (wrecan, PBN)
No: 2 (Maxperson, Solik)
Put me down as Yes. If on the other hand there is a minimum standard of optimization that exists I also claim that no one currently posting in this thread is qualified to determine it.
A personality who eschews fire, and is concieved so that it is ineluctably certain that at no future date will she change her mind about that, will not choose a fire power on advancing from one level to the next, even if her next pick must perforce be suboptimal.
It is easy to find examples of valency between roleplaying and mechanical build. Or in the case of sailboats, if I skipper klinker built monohulls, and loathe fibreglass cats, I'm not going to give up my klinker built just because the cat is the better sailing yacht.
vk
Boat choice isn't sailing. Boat choice isn't boat building. Boat choice determines how you should build a boat and sail it, but just because you want a sail boat doesn't mean you can build it or sail it.
Character concept is not roleplaying. Character concept is not optimization. Character concept determines how you should build your character and play it, but it doesn't mean you can optimize or roleplay.
You have 3 things. One of which leads to the other 2, but they are 3 distinct things.
Well... At least we got custom avatars....
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 4:00PM
#934
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2005
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If the "bad" choice is the better roleplaying choice, then it's not really a bad choice. Say if the "worse" power was a fire power for a fire themed character and the "great" choice was a power that was not elemental in nature(so it couldn't be reflavored into fire) and made absolutely no roleplay sense for the character. In that case, choosing the optimal power is bad roleplaying.
Ah, but once again you seem to be arguing that the choice is inherently a matter of roleplay or optimization. My argument says that the two choices are roleplay neutral, regardless of what the person is making concept wise we assume that with refluffing or something similar that it works very well for any and all concepts. My argument talks about it in terms of roleplay neutrality, in that case it seems like a person is choosing the stronger choice when either one will work for their concept. This would seem fine for roleplay purposes and makes sense as optimization.
Not to mention that you seemed to ignore the underlying point I had, IE that roleplay does not, and should not, mean hamstringing a character. If we say that somehow a character is better roleplayed if it's weak then that seems kind of stupid. A bad roleplayer won't magically become a great one because you give him a character that has the highest stat of 9 and feats and powers chosen by dartboard. Nor will a great roleplayer become a bad one if given a character that has the lowest stat of 20 and their feats are chosen by spreadsheet and charop geniuses.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 4:08PM
#935
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It is easy to find examples of valency between roleplaying and mechanical build. Or in the case of sailboats, if I love klinker built monohulls, and loathe fibreglass cats, I'm not going to give up my klinker built just because the cat is the better sailing boat.
vk
Which is irrelevant to both sailing and building... you're talking about personal preference in boats. Unless there is something you can achieve in a klinker-built monohull that you cannot do in a fibreglass cat, then there is no particular reason outside of your personal tastes to pick the monohull over the cat, now is there?
Optimization is a lot like boat building... you can try to build the fastest, or the most durable, or the most sleek, or one that has a specific specialized function. Whether you build them good or not has nothing to do with whether you sail them good.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 6:50PM
#936
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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That build looks solidly optimized to support your "no" position. :P
heh.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 6:51PM
#937
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Although this, in my opinion, is still subjective - it stands in counter to VKs premise:
Any build can be arrived at through "role-play" (unless it's changed and I missed it)
edited: had wrong post quoted
I thought it was any build can be roleplayed, but not any build could be optimized. I could be wrong, though, it was MANY pages ago :P
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 6:55PM
#938
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Actually, no. He had never really heard of the science of metallurgy before, and the article was apparently very insightful to him.
That doesn't actually mean anything. There were probably many other factors outside of metals that factored into it. Happiness in the current carreer, etc. Mid life stuff. Things don't happen *poof* with absolutely no other factors unless someone is mentally unbalanced.
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 9:59PM
#939
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That doesn't actually mean anything. There were probably many other factors outside of metals that factored into it. Happiness in the current carreer, etc. Mid life stuff. Things don't happen *poof* with absolutely no other factors unless someone is mentally unbalanced.
Well, considering that he was 28 at the time (he did just finish medical school to become a psychiatrist, after all), loved his job, and passed his required stress exam to maintain his job as a psychiatrist (psychiatrists have to see psychiatrists to keep their license), I just don't think you realize that people don't have to be as static as you seem to want them to be.
You're right, there was a huge factor in him changing his job... that newspaper article. That was what it took for him to decide that there was a career far more rewarding and interesting than the one he was in, despite the fact that he loved the job he already had. He just didn't need the time to make such a transition, because not everyone does. People go on spontaneous trips, or change their minds about things all the time. It doesn't necessarily take time to happen, especially if it's something jarring... a tragedy, a near-death experience, or even a newspaper article about something you think is really damn awesome.
In that same vein, I'd imagine that the life of an adventurer is going to be a potentially life-changing career. Battle does things to people... it makes cynics out of comedians, storytellers out of stoics, and faithful out of the faithless. Who knows what life change you might make one day while slicing the head off an orc?
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4 years ago ::
Jul 29, 2009 - 10:02PM
#940
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Date Joined:
May 15, 2008
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If it has intelligence, it's roleplayable. Even if it can only convey feelings and not complex thoughts.
I never said that the rock had intelligence. It certainly has no way of conveying feelings. It's an indestructible rock.
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