Ah. Yeah, I definitely didnt understand how Rituals work >_<. I thought it was something where you bought one, used it, then had to buy it again. If you get to keep Rituals for good then I will definitely make a sheet just for them. Am I correct in assuming you can buy Rituals, due to the "market price" thing that shows up in the CB?
Looking some more at some of the features, moving the Class/Racial/Paragon/Epic Features to the Combat/Powers Sheet will be a good idea. I only wonder whether to move the Feats there too, to keep them on the first page, or to try and break it up into a "non combat feats" and "combat feats" section, that way combat feats can go right on the Combat/Powers sheet and the non combat ones can stay on the first page.
Though you do make a point, in that any feats that dont deal with combat will pretty much be taken into account already by inputting the numbers in the appropriate area (i.e. Jack of all Trades adding 2 to untrained skill checks). The only thing with moving the Feats and Features to the Combat/Power sheet is that it will leave a big gap of space open on the first page, though Im sure there is something I could fill the space in with. Either that or I could actually expand the other boxes to make the font easier to read and such.
One worry I had when starting this was having too many sheets, since a lot of the sheets I saw other people make were usually 2-3 pages, some going around 5, but if you can fit all the info easily on a sheet, it shouldnt be a big deal if you have two character sheets, a bio sheet, 3-4 power sheets, a ritual sheet, and a magic item sheet (debating that one at the moment). At least, I HOPE it wouldnt :p
Ah. Yeah, I definitely didnt understand how Rituals work >_<. I thought it was something where you bought one, used it, then had to buy it again. If you get to keep Rituals for good then I will definitely make a sheet just for them. Am I correct in assuming you can buy Rituals, due to the "market price" thing that shows up in the CB?
Yep. The market price is both to purchase the book necessary to have it permanently learned, and to purchase an anybody-can-use-and-in-half-the-time scroll (that's the catch with scrolls).
Looking some more at some of the features, moving the Class/Racial/Paragon/Epic Features to the Combat/Powers Sheet will be a good idea. I only wonder whether to move the Feats there too, to keep them on the first page, or to try and break it up into a "non combat feats" and "combat feats" section, that way combat feats can go right on the Combat/Powers sheet and the non combat ones can stay on the first page.
That's inventive and on some levels a good idea. My concern is that you'd lose track of what your sum of feats is if you don't have a composite list of them anywhere. Perhaps there'd be a section for just naming your feats after all?
Though you do make a point, in that any feats that dont deal with combat will pretty much be taken into account already by inputting the numbers in the appropriate area (i.e. Jack of all Trades adding 2 to untrained skill checks). The only thing with moving the Feats and Features to the Combat/Power sheet is that it will leave a big gap of space open on the first page, though Im sure there is something I could fill the space in with. Either that or I could actually expand the other boxes to make the font easier to read and such.
Ehn, maybe the boxes for the totals could be expanded. You could put some of the stuff that's on the back of the sheet on the front, and make more space on the back to expand the size of the magic items section, to give more space for the properties.
One worry I had when starting this was having too many sheets, since a lot of the sheets I saw other people make were usually 2-3 pages, some going around 5, but if you can fit all the info easily on a sheet, it shouldnt be a big deal if you have two character sheets, a bio sheet, 3-4 power sheets, a ritual sheet, and a magic item sheet (debating that one at the moment). At least, I HOPE it wouldnt :p
Too many sheets can be a problem, but I've figured out ways to deal with it. Anecdote time!
See, the Shados power sheet front has six power blocks, and the back has eight. Those six are almost always enough for class features, racial features and at-will powers. On the back, I take one column of four powers and write above it "Encounter Attacks," and the other "Daily Attacks" (you get four of each). I print another page, this one having the 8 power blocks on either side. One side I write Utility at the top of (you get 7), the other I write Item Powers at the top of. What would've been an absolute mess of mixed powers becomes quite organized.
I dunno if that gives you any ideas on how to design the sheets, but I wanted to share a philosophy that would encourage you to make longer sheets as need be. People will manage, is the point I was trying to make.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
The only 'real' sheets I would make that people would need are the two character sheets, at least 2 Power sheets (more if they need it), a character bio sheet if people want to go into detail on their character (I wanted that to be a completely separate sheet to make it more optional), a Rituals sheet (which I could somehow add into the Combat/Power Sheet probably), then the Magic Items sheet if I cant find a place to fit it.
With the feats/features thing, I had imagined people would name what the feat is, and also write down what the feat does. I could take the table I have for them and split it into a "Feat Name" and "Effect" thing maybe.
A big problem was I didnt know if characters get a certain number of powers or if it varies by class/race or something. If, say, each character got 4 at will, 4 encounter, 4 utility, and 4 daily powers as a maximum, it would make things a lot easier since I could design sheets around that, and split it up into sections for the different power types. But if each class/race gets a different number of powers, then not so much.
What I could do is:
1) have the sheets split up into Character and Combat/Power sections
2) take the feats and features section and split it up into combat and non-combat sections. I can put the combat feats and features above the basic attacks box on the Power Sheet, then I could put the non-combat feats and features on the first Character page, so that way feats/features having to do with skills or ability scores or something are right there for people in the area they affect. Either that, or have the Combat feats/features be the only ones that have a spot for their effects to be written, and the noncombat feats/features only get listed (since they would primarily only have to do with things like skills and ability scores and whatnot, where you would input the numbers in the first place and dont need to have a description of the feat)
3) try and split up the Power Blocks into At-Will/Daily/Encounter/Utility sections (those are the only power types I need to worry about, yes?), assuming each character gets the same number of powers, excluding feats/features that give certain classes/races an extra power (in which case I can add an 'extra powers' section or something).
4) Try to take the "Equipment Worn" section and arrange it more horizontially rather than vertically to free up some space, that way I could put the Carried Items and Magic Items sections all the way across left to right, hopefully making for more room to include that "property" suggestion you gave. If that doesnt work, then I would probably need to cut the Magic Items from the second Character page, replace it with the non-combat feats/features, and turn the Magic Items into its own sheet. I would just really rather keep the Magic Items and Items Carried sections together with the Equipment Worn section, that way all that stuff that belongs together is together.
Probably sounds kind of messy :p
If it comes down to it Im sure I could expand on the ability scores/defenses/HP/Misc/Skills boxes on the first page to fill up room. Any way to just ease up on the amount of sheets needed and to keep things in certain areas with similar things. Worse case scenario is a person using two character sheets, a magic item sheet, a ritual sheet, 3-4 Power/Combat sheets, and a character bio sheet, which is completely optional.
Couple questions, though. What is the math for the Weapons that the other person was talking about? Other than the weight, is there any limit to how many weapons/magic items you can have in your storage, or is that just purely "if it doesnt weight too much its good?"
With the feats/features thing, I had imagined people would name what the feat is, and also write down what the feat does. I could take the table I have for them and split it into a "Feat Name" and "Effect" thing maybe.
Interesting idea. Consider it if you end up with a lot of space, but I wouldn't qualify it as a priority.
A big problem was I didnt know if characters get a certain number of powers or if it varies by class/race or something. If, say, each character got 4 at will, 4 encounter, 4 utility, and 4 daily powers as a maximum, it would make things a lot easier since I could design sheets around that, and split it up into sections for the different power types. But if each class/race gets a different number of powers, then not so much.
Unfortunately, characters don't have a perfectly unified amount of powers. Druids start with 3 at-wills on average, psions never get encounter powers, and assassins get three powers just from their class features. But you can aim for the middle and supply vague enough designs that someone can appropriate your sheets for a slightly altered purpose.
What I could do is:
1) have the sheets split up into Character and Combat/Power sections
2) take the feats and features section and split it up into combat and non-combat sections. I can put the combat feats and features above the basic attacks box on the Power Sheet, then I could put the non-combat feats and features on the first Character page, so that way feats/features having to do with skills or ability scores or something are right there for people in the area they affect. Either that, or have the Combat feats/features be the only ones that have a spot for their effects to be written, and the noncombat feats/features only get listed (since they would primarily only have to do with things like skills and ability scores and whatnot, where you would input the numbers in the first place and dont need to have a description of the feat)
That's a fine idea. As I said before, the concern is that someone will not easily consolidate what they're reading and may forget how many feats they have. Without a list of all your feats, that could get easy at higher levels. I could be underestimating the average player, but that's what sticks out in this plan.
3) try and split up the Power Blocks into At-Will/Daily/Encounter/Utility sections (those are the only power types I need to worry about, yes?), assuming each character gets the same number of powers, excluding feats/features that give certain classes/races an extra power (in which case I can add an 'extra powers' section or something).
I don't suggest it. First of all, utility powers aren't a "type;" they're still at-will, encounter or daily (they're just never attacks). Second of all, people will organize how they want to organize, and what you set as default won't change that (I've tried to get people to do it my way; they really don't). I merely suggest leaving a lot of space for people to do with the sheets what they will (and maybe if you're really good at design, use lines and colour to create subtle suggestions of categorization across columns and rows, so that people looking at the page visually identify the groupings they intended). You needn't worry about people that have a lot more powers than normal, like wizards. They'll just print out an extra sheet. If you prepare by making a lot of spots for powers, most people playing will wonder why there's so many blank power blocks on their sheet.
4) Try to take the "Equipment Worn" section and arrange it more horizontially rather than vertically to free up some space, that way I could put the Carried Items and Magic Items sections all the way across left to right, hopefully making for more room to include that "property" suggestion you gave. If that doesnt work, then I would probably need to cut the Magic Items from the second Character page, replace it with the non-combat feats/features, and turn the Magic Items into its own sheet. I would just really rather keep the Magic Items and Items Carried sections together with the Equipment Worn section, that way all that stuff that belongs together is together.
A good idea. I agree completely. Keep items together as best you can.
Probably sounds kind of messy :p
A little. It's a work in progress.
If it comes down to it Im sure I could expand on the ability scores/defenses/HP/Misc/Skills boxes on the first page to fill up room. Any way to just ease up on the amount of sheets needed and to keep things in certain areas with similar things. Worse case scenario is a person using two character sheets, a magic item sheet, a ritual sheet, 3-4 Power/Combat sheets, and a character bio sheet, which is completely optional.
I think that there's always merit in just putting blank (or lined) boxes next to stuff, if you have the space. People will find ways to use them. Perhaps putting blank boxes next to the Feats list will have some people saying "I can write what my feats do here" while others say "I can doodle here." If you want to give people the suggestion of how to use a space, perhaps put the purpose of the box (e.g., "Feat Benefits") in faded text. It tells them what the box is for, but they can write over it without making it difficult to read what they wrote.
Couple questions, though. What is the math for the Weapons that the other person was talking about? Other than the weight, is there any limit to how many weapons/magic items you can have in your storage, or is that just purely "if it doesnt weight too much its good?"
1. I'm not sure, but I think he means that in the Combat section of the Powers sheet, the first open box is listed as Attack, not Weapon. This might mean, to him, that it's meant for shorthand on the powers the sheet further elaborates on below. I assumed that section is meant for basic attacks. Am I mistaken? 2. There is no artificial limit on the number of weapons you can possess on your person in the rules. You could have one of every weapon in the game hidden in a bag of holding, if you wanted. You could try to carry them all without a bag of holding, but I can't imagine carrying them all, even if most of the larger ones are strapped to your back.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
Ill probably only have room to have the Feat Name/Effect thing for the feats/features that have to do with combat. Luckily with the Power/Combat sheet, I have all that room from left to right to where giving the players room to write wont be a problem. Or shouldnt, at least.
Ah. Ill probably just stick with the whole "power blocks with check boxes" thing then. That way I wont be forcing people to stick the powers in any certain way. I cant reallly think of any other way to set up the power blocks than that, but I will definitely be taking your idea and cutting some of the fat out to leave more of a blank space. Ill probably only keep the boxes for damage and the like.
I might make it so that on the first page the player lists all the feats/features they chose, but only the name of the feat/feature. That way they have all the feats written down in one spot, but they also have the combat/power sheet to go into detail about the combat feats/features. I will probably also throw in a blank box with lines next to that and let the player do what they wish as you said, whether writing down the effects of a certain feat or just a random note. Either that or just keep the feats seperated by combat/non combat and hope it isnt too bad for them.
As i said, Ill just stick with the basic design I borrowed for the Powers, with the checkboxes, and just taking out some stuff to give a more blank canvas for the player to use at their will.
If I find I have any significant space Ill probably throw in a random blank box for writing random notes down.
The Combat part on the Powers sheet I did mean to make for Basic Attacks. I could change the header from Combat to Basic Attacks so that people dont get confused. Putting the Basic Attacks with the Power blocks was a last minute decision since I wanted more room on Page 1, but I thought it also made sense to stick the attacks with the other attacks that are powers. But I think he was talking about on the second page, with the equipment, I have a Weapons section that has a spot to list the weapon, then the boxes to the right are "Proficiency/Damage/Weight/Book and Page."
I might just try to fit all the equipment on one page, and if the Magic Items arent given enough spots create a seperate Items Carried and Magic Items sheet that people can print out if they need more room. Maybe providing more sheets than needed is better than not providing enough. That is another problem, is I think Im not providing enough spots for people to put all their items and whatnot into the sheets, the Basic Attacks spot for examply only has I believe 6 slots, two of which would need to be filled in with that unarmed melee and ranged attack I assume.
The Combat part on the Powers sheet I did mean to make for Basic Attacks. I could change the header from Combat to Basic Attacks so that people dont get confused. Putting the Basic Attacks with the Power blocks was a last minute decision since I wanted more room on Page 1, but I thought it also made sense to stick the attacks with the other attacks that are powers. But I think he was talking about on the second page, with the equipment, I have a Weapons section that has a spot to list the weapon, then the boxes to the right are "Proficiency/Damage/Weight/Book and Page."
Oh. Huh. Do you think you could figure out a way to have both a weapon's basic attack modifier and damage fit in the same location as the weapon inventory? That'd save space (and writing time) when it comes to operating on just those weapons. You could turn what is currently the Combat section into a "add up your general modifiers" section. Does that sound like a good idea?
I might just try to fit all the equipment on one page, and if the Magic Items arent given enough spots create a seperate Items Carried and Magic Items sheet that people can print out if they need more room. Maybe providing more sheets than needed is better than not providing enough. That is another problem, is I think Im not providing enough spots for people to put all their items and whatnot into the sheets, the Basic Attacks spot for examply only has I believe 6 slots, two of which would need to be filled in with that unarmed melee and ranged attack I assume.
Wondrous Items do have that problem, of not having anywhere to be represented on a character sheet in full. Items that aren't attached to an item slot in general are forgotten that way.
I dunno how worried you ought to be about the amount of melee basic slots. After a point, your attack modifiers and damage modifiers are all the same (see above suggestion), since you can only really have unique mastery in a couple due to feats and features (unless you spend a lot of feats on weapon expertise and weapon focus, but still carry around weapons of groups you don't have feats for in those groupings for some reason). A wizard probably won't even have any reason to fill in a single basic attack. I think six is very much plenty. What you ought to do is make room for weapon properties (High Crit, Brutal x, Defensive, Reach, ect.) somewhere either in the inventory section of the weapon or in the Combat section as it is now. Or is that what the Combat Modifiers section is for? Since it's one big box, I was under the impression you intended it to be for things that apply across all weapons. You could add lines to the box (faded ones) so that people could use the lines to write stuff per weapon, or across all weapons, perhaps.
I don't use emoticons, and I'm also pretty pleasant. So if I say something that's rude or insulting, it's probably a joke.
I meant for the Combat section to be similar to the Basic Attack part of the Character Sheet that comes with the Character Builder, where you can place your Basic attacks and figure out the modifiers for them. Never really though of it for anything else. Also, I did mean for the Attack box on that page to mean Weapon. That was my bad. The combat mods box I put in case something happens during a battle/round that would change a persons att/dam bonuses or something. Like if an enemy made an attack that would half the players damage for a certain weapon (just a random example).
I started thinking about trying to pair up the Weapons part of the Equipment list with the Combat section, but that would probably require moving something out of its current place (moving the Weapons list off the Equipment page or moving the Combat stuff off the Powers page).
I wasnt really sure what else to do for the Basic Attacks/Combat part, since other sheets seemed to just have a spot for the weapon/attack name and then some boxes to input numbers. I figured the Weapons list in the Equipment section would mostly be for writing down "Dagger" and nothing else, then the Combat section would be to figure out the modifiers for the weapons. That would just require people having to do math when writing in a new basic attack, or having to rewrite it if thye decide to take it off the attack ist but add it again later.
I dont think I really ran into any Weapon properties such as Crit or Defensive or anything. Anywhere I could look at an example of what you mean by those? If they would be useful/important to a player I could definitely find a way to get them in there. EDIT: I looked some up and I will add those kind of things in somewhere. Ill probably try and add those things on the Power/Combat sheet, since most of the effects of the properties seem to affect things more on that page than any other (one that doesnt would be the one that increases AC when wielding the weapon in one hand).
Trying to think of a way to better the whole weapons/combat thing. Taking away the mods math boxes from each weapon and instead putting one of each at the top of the Combat section, then just having each line of basic attacks include a spot for the damage it does, range, a spot to add proficiencies (though that could be nullified if I put the feats/features for combat on the same page, since proficiencies could just go there), a spot to input the attack vs defense thing so that you could write in the correct number (for attack) and the correct defense of the target that you attack, stuff like that? If I did that I could probably fit in a "Property" box for people to fill in with to keep track of the defensive/reach stuff, or put the Property thing on the Weapons Inventory page.
After thinking about it I think my plan right now is:
- Get a more final design, visually, done, with a different color scheme and maybe a few pieces of eye candy to tweak the quality up
- For the first page, get rid of the seperate racial/class features, feats, and paragon/epic boxes and combine them into one for Non-Combat Feats & Features, with the option to fill in what the benefits of the feats are if people want to. This box can be for feats/features that affect skills, defense, ability scores, equipment, or for weapon proficiencies and the like. Also, add in a Power Points and Theme line at the very top to go along with the Character Name and other info. I may add in a "Number of Feats" line as well, so that people can keep track of the number of feats they have without having to be confused over the separated Combat and Non Combat Feats. The general layout will remain the same. Ill put the Non-Combat Feats/Features most likely along the bottom where the Racial/Class/Paragon/Epic Features are, and leave the area that now houses the Feats box as an empty box for people to write random things in
- For the second page, try to take the Equipment Worn box and spread it left to right along the top to open up more space. If I can do that, Ill spread the Items Carried box from left to right under it, and try to fit the Magical Items in more at the bottom with enough room for people to write down what the properties/effects of the items are. Also, I will take Rituals off the bottom of that page and make a separate page for them. Ill take the Weapons Inventory and put that onto the Combat/Powers page as well.
- For the first Powers page, I will get rid of having each attack line have the math boxes. Instead, Ill take the Attack and Damage bonus bits and put only one of each along the top of that box, so that way you only have to do one thing of math rather than fill in 6 separate lines. Then underneath I will put the basic attacks section, which will effectively be the Weapons Inventory, only it will also be able to be used as a mass Basic Attacks section so that you dont need to write down a list of the weapons you have, the same weapon in the Equipment Worn area, and the same weapon again for the Basic Attacks area. I will also add on that property tab for weapons as well. The Combat Feats/Features I will have at the top of the page, then the Basic Attacks/Weapon List under it, then start with the Power Blocks as the final piece
- The power blocks I will keep the same, with the exception being that I will take out a good chunk of the boxes as you suggested, and have a more open and blank box for people to fill in with what they think they need to jot down.
- If there are any significant amounts of open space, Ill throw in a blank box for people to write down any random notes or things they want.
- Create a separate Magic Items and Items Carried pages, in case people need more room with their characters.
Yeah, the gray boxes are something I had planned on getting rid of if I got to a final version. For now they were more to keep things lined up correctly for my own sake.
I can fix the weapons thing, I just didnt know what the math boxes might be for it, and thought the proficiency and damage boxes would be enough. Could you let me know what the math boxes should look like for that part?
My standard notations are:
Attack: (Weapon Proficiency) + Stat + 1/2 Level + Enhancement + Feat Damage: Stat + Enh + Feat
I put the WP in parenthesis to save me the trouble of writing everything twice in the case of weapliments.
So you basically need five boxes for weapon attack bonuses, four for implement attack bonuses, and three for damage bonuses for both. Useful short headings might be: WP, Stat, Lvl, Enh, Feat.
