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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 1:45AM
#1791
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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The PHB. Although "detail" is a bit extreme. Any book beyond the "core three" also assumed Greyhawk by default.
None of which actually detail the Greyhawk world. So you've failed to actually answer his question.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 1:50AM
#1792
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Also, you have yet to make a PHB Fighter capable of handling the Balor at all. "BUT 3e is expanded from that!" Not for some people.
Yes, but those people that don't have anything but core just don't matter. When designing a product or discussing something main stream, like 3ed, the abberational few who have to use only core are ignored. It's stupid in the extreme to design anything around an extreme minority.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 1:51AM
#1793
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Yeah sorry most games banned psionics
Where's your proof of this assumption?
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 1:57AM
#1794
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2005
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Cry me a river. The few broken things wrong with 3ed were easy and quick to fix. Not all of us need everything handed to us on a silver platter.
Handed on a silver platter, really now? When I buy a computer I am not expected to program the OS myself or assemble the thing from scratch. If my OS keeps crashing the system...well ok Windows maybe  . But my point stands that when I buy a product the assumption is that the product functions as intended and as promised. When I go to a restaurant and order soup I shouldn't have to go into the kitchen to make it myself. The point is that when I purchase a product that product should work. I don't buy half completed books and it isn't unreasonable for me to get irritated when I buy something and it isn't complete and in fact requires me to do a lot of modification to it to make it run smoothly.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 1:58AM
#1795
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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"It is no gurrentee that it will summon another one, as I doubt it wants to owe favors
Yep. By the time the balor knows it's in peril or in an extreme circumstance, it's too late. No second balor guys.
Summon (Sp): Many demons share the ability to summon others of their kind (the success chance and type of demon summoned are noted in each monster description). Demons are often reluctant to use this power until in obvious peril or extreme circumstances.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 2:05AM
#1796
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2005
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Yes, but those people that don't have anything but core just don't matter. When designing a product or discussing something main stream, like 3ed, the abberational few who have to use only core are ignored. It's stupid in the extreme to design anything around an extreme minority.
The point is more that the core books can offer us insights that suppliments might not be able to. The core books show us the basic design principles and premises, suppliments might show changes in design goals (indeed many of them do) but also add more variables that aren't always easy to check. A core monster might be best if tested against a core character design. The other argument might be that expanding the design pool too far makes the study of a class more an exercise in optimization and mechanics testing than it is in the study of the function of an actual class.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 8:31AM
#1797
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
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Yes, but those people that don't have anything but core just don't matter.
So my gaming experience in 3.5 didn't matter? Ahh right, now I see how you roll Max. A good ole fashion grognard elitist. If you haven't been playing DnD since day one and don't own everything ever made you just aren't a gamer, right Max?
I love all your explanations of "use your brain retard" and "you should have known nub". It really shows that you have very little system mastery and don't understand most of the issues that underpin the balance problems in 3.5. You can't seem to grasp that just because charm spells seem like they'd be outlawed in your world doesn't mean that makes sense to anyone else. The way you play is not "the one true fun".
Stop being an elitist who assumes that everything he knows is true and that all gamers should know that. Accept that 3.5 was a TERRIBLE game for new gamers and then maybe your arguments will hold weight. Balance is important for new gamers.
You want me to cry you a river over the "few broken things". How in the name of all that is holy was I supposed to deal with CR? That system is AWFUL! How was I as a, new DM, supposed to be able to provide a reasonable challenge to my players. How was I supposed to fix Druids? How was I supposed to fix Clerics? What do I do about flesh to stone? How about gate and extra planar allies? And before you hop up on your elitist box - remember I can't just ban these things. If I do I don't even get to play DnD anymore.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 8:40AM
#1798
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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Yes, but those people that don't have anything but core just don't matter. When designing a product or discussing something main stream, like 3ed, the abberational few who have to use only core are ignored. It's stupid in the extreme to design anything around an extreme minority.
So its ok for the initial release to has massive problems because we'll force people to buy our "patches" later? How is that an argument in favor of 3e? And considering the core only is what many new groups have, it is actually very smart to design around that, because if they don't like their experience with core, why will they go and buy all your splat books? Not to mention that when it was first released, there wasn't anything but core (and 3pp products but we'll leave those out of it for now). This has to be one of the most asinine arguments I've ever heard.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 8:51AM
#1799
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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So lemme get this straight, the way to balanace the fighter is to make him a nightmarish amalgamation of PrCs and non-martial subsytems from thirty different books that results more in a caster that specializes in hitting things?
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4 years ago ::
Jun 28, 2009 - 8:55AM
#1800
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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The point is more that the core books can offer us insights that suppliments might not be able to. The core books show us the basic design principles and premises, suppliments might show changes in design goals (indeed many of them do) but also add more variables that aren't always easy to check.
As has been pointed out, core does indeed show us that WoTC deliberately designs their games to be bare bones some areas, and short in others so that we have to buy splatbooks and give them more of our money. Limiting myself to a deliberately gimped system is not something I intend to do. 4ed is the same way. I didn't like core very much at all. It's all the new books that have made it palatable to me.
A core monster might be best if tested against a core character design.
It might, but it isn't. The monsters were made complete, unlike characters.
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