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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 6:38PM
#1751
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2001
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In reality, 3ed had a few very broken items like grappling and some spells and feats and magic items.
"A few"? More like "a lot". We had:
Broken spells (Harm and Polymorph for the tip of the iceberg, the tiny little point on the very top that is).
Broken core rules (Grappling, trip, disarm, sunder)
Broken magical items.
Broken prestige classes
Inherently broken classes (either one level wonders for MC characters or just crap)
Broken CR (CR was a very unreliable way of determining a monsters challenge)
Broken feats (which does in fact usually go with the grappling, trip, disarm and sundering rules).
So that's a whole lot that is completely broken; especially when all of that stuff truly combines at its worst at high levels.
3E was definitely fine for a 'sweet spot' that many have spoken about at length. At very low levels it was a critical hit to create a new character fest. At high levels it was just disgusting.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 6:39PM
#1752
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
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No. I'm saying it wasn't Greyhawk. Greyhawk had laws and rules, many of which dealt with magic and spells.
Your core setting had the the Greyhawk Gods. That was the extent of what little the rule books presented. That means, you guys had to have created a bunch on your own. It was your own world, not "Greyhawk".
I stopped calling it Greyhawk. That's not the issue. Where in the rule books did it suggest that I should outlaw charm spells? Where was I supposed to get this information? How were we, as brand new players, supposed to figure this all out? Or does DnD just suck for us until we earn this via hardknocks?
Had the game been balanced my group and I could have had fun coming out of the gate as opposed to having to find a way to fix the unbalanced game.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 6:41PM
#1753
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2008
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Nobody can know the exactly would would occur in a totally new and hypothetical situation. It's strictly impossible to know how magic would effect the world and how it would be regulated, and assuming that you so is a bit arrogant.
I know that there were a lot of different countries in Forgotten Realms that each had different rules for magic, so obviously the Designers TM could not entirely know how magic would effect the world either.
I know that a caster that relied entirely on charm spells would open up a world of possibilities for his DM (rubs hands together with evil laugh), but then a fighter who knifed random people down in the street would as well.
In my opinion, it is only possible RAW to start play in a campaign world. After you start play then the game has to adapt to anything that happens, which means my RAW campaign will start to diverge from your RAW campaign.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 6:43PM
#1754
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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I'd venture things like Dominate Person, Power Word: All, Wall of Force. Those are just a few off the top of my head.
How well do those work against things that are 90-1200 feet away again? My character put Dimension Door on an intelligent item for a reason.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 6:46PM
#1755
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
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How well do those work against things that are 90-1200 feet away again? My character put Dimension Door on an intelligent item for a reason.
I wasn't referencing your fighter specifically. I was just mentioning a few spells that a normally very fighter unfriendly.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 7:11PM
#1756
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2008
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I stopped calling it Greyhawk. That's not the issue. Where in the rule books did it suggest that I should outlaw charm spells? Where was I supposed to get this information? How were we, as brand new players, supposed to figure this all out? Or does DnD just suck for us until we earn this via hardknocks?
Why would you want to outlaw charm spells?
The only thing that has outlawed charm spells, seems to be 4ed (unless you do it in combat, I guess).
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 7:12PM
#1757
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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Why would you want to outlaw charm spells?
The only thing that has outlawed charm spells, seems to be 4ed (unless you do it in combat, I guess).
Where did you get the idea that you can only use spells in combat?
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 7:20PM
#1758
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Date Joined:
Oct 10, 2007
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And you get +43s how? Get a +43 Core only Go.
I bet you can't. Actually short of playing an Ogre or the like I know you can't. Been there and done that.
It's called limited Resources. Some people don't have 10 million splat books. Ever think of that? No? Course not. Your a 3e. And 3es don't think Core only or very close to it.
BAB 20
STR14
Feats 2
Magic weapon 5
Boots of speed 1
RAGE!!! 2
44.
Charge
46
Flanking
48
Reckless offensive if srd is considered core
50
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 7:21PM
#1759
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Date Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
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Why would you want to outlaw charm spells?
The only thing that has outlawed charm spells, seems to be 4ed (unless you do it in combat, I guess).
Because apparently that's how I was supposed to balance charm spells in my game, according to Max atleast. Charm spells would never have caused game balance issue if I had simply made them illegal to cast in the game world. If I had been a good DM I would have know that this was simply a common sense solution.
Also - who said you can only use powers in combat? I know the rule books don't tell you that.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 26, 2009 - 8:58PM
#1760
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Date Joined:
Oct 24, 2008
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Because apparently that's how I was supposed to balance charm spells in my game, according to Max atleast. Charm spells would never have caused game balance issue if I had simply made them illegal to cast in the game world. If I had been a good DM I would have know that this was simply a common sense solution.
Lol :D
Also - who said you can only use powers in combat? I know the rule books don't tell you that.
I don't know why you can only use powers in combat, but as far as I can see, there are no core Wizard powers (or rituals) in 4ed that charm anyone.
My favourite application of a power outside of combat is Scorching Burst, but thats probably because I am a closet Pyromaniac! 
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