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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 8:43PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
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My elves are desert dwelling militarists that focus heavily on law, order and tradition. They also have goblioids as willing servants who serves as Griffin knights to support them.
Well my elves are better than yours because they live it trees and and they are pretty....fine I can't remember how they are, I usually just make it up on the spot then write it down to keep consistency.
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 8:47PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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... you can't build a "real" world without stats for sheep and cows and horses and such, because you never know when the PCs might need to kill one.
After all, they might be 10xp short of a level up... 
OR
Oh, no! Stampede! Quick, let's roll initiative! 
OR
Aw, the wizard got killed by the chicken again! I told you to send the barbarian to pick the eggs...
--
And I'm saddened to see that the article considers sheep and cows and horses to be more likely to be killed (and thus, deserving of statblocks) than bacteria and other microorganisms that might impact the adventure.
"Let me roll percentile for your chance to catch the plague as you sleep in the sleazy inn..."
Yay for realism! :surrender
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 8:50PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jan 16, 2003
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Most of the existing fluff for monsters wasn't/still isn't very good anyway. I feel I can do better for my campaigns.
Sig to be rebuilt soonThe Descendants-- the webserial that reads like a comic book! World of Ere-- A campaign setting that puts style to the fore.
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 8:59PM
#14
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Fluff does no one any good if you're going to toss it out and make up your own. "Official" fluff is a crutch for the uncreative.
...whatever
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 9:03PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2008
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How would you know how to use elves in your game without any background info at all except for a stat block?
"One bone broken for every twig snapped underfoot."
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 9:08PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Fluff does no one any good if you're going to toss it out and make up your own. "Official" fluff is a crutch for the uncreative.
To play the devil's advocate here, no one should be forced to be creative in order to play DnD. Or, at least, not creative enough to create their own world.
On the other hand, the "4e has no fluff" argument is dumb, since there is an official world, and there are descriptions in the monster blocks. They are much, much shorter than the AD&D ones, but I don't really think they're that much shorter than 3e or 3.5... Actually, as 3rd edition progressed, monster descriptions started to get "thinner".
Or so memory serves me, which is good enough for me. :D
I'm actually the type of DM who doesn't really want to work too hard to "put monsters there", but occasionally I like to make interesting choices. In other words, 4e nearly hit the right place for me. I'd rather have some "environment tables" like 3e, but the "choose one monster, and check its suggested encounter groups" is a good option. As someone said, a "orcs, worgs and goblins" encounter is the same as AD&D would describe in half a page of description on how orcs are a savage tribe that raises worgs to hunt, and sometimes enslave weaker humanois etc etc etc.
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 9:14PM
#17
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But it gives you the background info to use the monsters in your game.
How would you know how to use elves in your game without any background info at all except for a stat block?
Because background information, by its nature, is restrictive. More often than otherwise, it only provides you with a single context into which to use the monster in question, creates more assumptions about these creatures, and is ultimately useless to those who don't use it. And, let's face it: the ones bemoaning this kind of loss are those who like the lost material. The material itself has no inherent value except to generate interest in a large demographic. Personally speaking, I couldn't care less about core fluff since my setting of choice is Eberron. Drow as a spider-worshiping matriarchy built on survival of the fittest is completely useless to me. Then again, I'm not bemoaning the fact that the Monster Manual doesn't feature an entire section dedicated to the cult of Vulkoor, their practices, beliefs, and lifestyle. Why? Because I realize that this kind of information is only desired by a minority.
On the other hand, less fluff and more mechanics provides an evident and intentional disconnect between the two, which makes the mechanics more accessible to the majority and thus more worthwhile. What's more, in this day and age, information is so easily accessible that it takes merely a few minutes to search the Internet for fluff information on game elements or to share ideas with the community. This being said, that doesn't mean there's still good reason to publish fluff information, but it's more coherent to do so in books devoted to fluff, such as campaign setting material.
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 9:16PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2006
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Well my elves are better than yours because they live it trees and and they are pretty....fine I can't remember how they are, I usually just make it up on the spot then write it down to keep consistency.
I wasn't trying to come off as a dick, but I think I did. All I was trying to say was that I didn't really need the fluff in the book to tell me what I should do with elves. I came off a bit peevish, I guess.
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 9:19PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Nov 17, 2003
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After reading the article, feel free to discuss your concept of Gygaxian Naturalism as you see it, or in what ways it captures part of the essence of what the "feel" of the game is all about, along with any related discussions.
My first thought is that the entirety of D&D's published history is a massive resource to be plumbed for the simulationist-bent DM. If I want to know the ratio of male, female, and young kobolds in a typical lair than the AD&D Monster Manual is a good place to look. If I want to know something about Kenku society than the 2E Monster Manual is a good place to look. If I want ideas on non-combat related magical abilities of demons than the 3E Monster Manual is a good place to look. In short, I see no reason to lament the loss of such simulationist resources when I still have the exact same resources at my disposal.
My second thought is that the 4E Monster Manual is a dry read with its de-emphasis of the fluffier side of life. I no longer flip through the Monster Manual to generate ideas, but rather, use other resources for ideas and then turn to the Monster Manual for stats when necessary.
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4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 9:31PM
#20
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I wasn't trying to come off as a dick, but I think I did. All I was trying to say was that I didn't really need the fluff in the book to tell me what I should do with elves. I came off a bit peevish, I guess.
Nah you didn't come of as a dick, and do not think he was trying to call you one either...I think he was poking fun and playing around...
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