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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:22PM
#1
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@SYB/MouthyMerc: It doesn't matter if the people WotC is losing as Customers is just a drop in the bucket. The point is, they just gave up almost guaranteed sales simply because they were too (insert whatever reason you can imagine here) to just put up a notice on the Boards or the www.wizards.com Main Page, where everyone could see it. This would have cost them nothing, and it would probably have defused the entire situation. A bit of notice ahead of time might have been nice, as well, but (as Paizo's example shows) the Sites that sold people those PDFs are to blame if you purchased a product they no longer have available.
Resident Logic Cannon
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:23PM
#2
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Yup, Paizo would be stupid NOT to milk this.
WotC is seriously cutting off their nose to spite their face here, and making their competition look good.
I think Hasbro shareholders & management should be carefully considering whether current Wizard's management is in fact acting in their best interests.
If you don't think that Hasbro management was, at very least, informed, if not consulted, in this decision, you have a very naive view of corporate structure. My rough guess is that this decision was discussed by WotC PR, financial, in-house lawyers, out-of-house lawyers, Scott Rouse, (whoever is in charge of their inter-company contracts), Hasbro in-house lawyers, and Hasbro executives. I am probably missing some very essential people in that list.
-SYB
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:25PM
#3
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Quasi official on this thread and on ENW:http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rp … ost4742638
I know it's been buried by now, but I made a post with the same information in this particular thread, way back on page 3. Here's a link to that post.
And hopefully you don't see this as quasi-official or semi-official. This is me, acting as the D&D Community Manager giving you the official reason why we at Wizards of the Coast made this decision.
The real people who will lose is Trevor, and people like him. He probably has nothing to do with this decision. But because he's a name we can latch onto, he may end up suffering the flak from those of us who feel like we have been wronged by a nameless company.
Thanks for the support (I think) AsmodeusLore  . I don't feel like you guys are attacking me when I come in and try to make sure the information is flowing, and I understand how frustrating this has been on some of you. I expect to get entrenched with how you all feel about this issue and any other issue that affects D&D, and I expect some people will want to vent at me personally. Just part of the job.
That being said, I do want to remind everyone that I am paying very close attention to this conversation and passing on this feedback on a frequent basis to the rest of the company. Please don't feel like you're not being listened to or heard because that's just now the case.
Trevor Kidd
D&D Community Manager
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:26PM
#4
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Both companies did the same thing with the 3.5 to 4e transition, if you remember. Its habitual behavior for them. Pretending that it isn't is, well, silly.
And I find that jumping to that conclusion in both instances with the data is silly.
Do you know who SHOULD lose out for this?
Paizo, drivethrurpg, and the other companies. Why?
Because they lied to their customers about what service they can provide.
It was very smart for them to deflect the blame onto WotC, given it was their fault they promised a service they couldn't promise.
I do not think you know what was actually promised to the customers.
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:28PM
#5
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I know far, far more about piracy than most people do.
The RIAA and the MPAA do exaggerate their losses - massively - to piracy. This does not mean that they do not sustain massive losses to pirates, however, because they do.
Piracy is bad for these businesses.
Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyshows that piracy doesn't hurt profits. In some cases, it shows that piracy helps profits.
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:29PM
#6
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Linky to the US court site?
The court is US District Court for the Western District of Washington. A search for that name will come up with the website as the first result. I didn't find the names using a web search, because there was an $0.08 per page charge on searches and I had no clue how to use the system (I could very well have spent significant money and found nothing).
I called the court and spoke with a clerk who provided the information, which I wrote down word for word (even had her spell the really difficult names). If you wish to call and confirm, the toll free phone # is (866) 323-9293. They are open 9AM to 5PM PST. The case #s are C09-0459TSZ, C09-0461RSM, and C09-0460RSM.
-SYB
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:33PM
#7
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Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyshows that piracy doesn't hurt profits. In some cases, it shows that piracy helps profits.
There you go with the data again. The unfortunate fact is that most people aren't smart enough to grasp the counter-intuitive, irrespective of evidence.
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:34PM
#8
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Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyafter Studyshows that piracy doesn't hurt profits. In some cases, it shows that piracy helps profits.
yeah, but i've learned from hard experience that people will ignore the actual data and just believe the corporate bullpucky.
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:37PM
#9
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< dangerous facts >
-SYB
Egads man! How dare you use facts on the internet! Don't you know it might implode!
And again, people, the real simple reason that WoTC did not make a front page annoucement; When you are dealing with litigation and court cases, every lawyer will tell you to speak as little about it as possible until it's over!
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11 months ago ::
Apr 07, 2009 - 6:38PM
#10
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@SYB/MouthyMerc: It doesn't matter if the people WotC is losing as Customers is just a drop in the bucket. The point is, they just gave up almost guaranteed sales simply because they were too (insert whatever reason you can imagine here) to just put up a notice on the Boards or the www.wizards.com Main Page, where everyone could see it. This would have cost them nothing, and it would probably have defused the entire situation. A bit of notice ahead of time might have been nice, as well, but (as Paizo's example shows) the Sites that sold people those PDFs are to blame if you purchased a product they no longer have available.
You are assuming there is a situation to defuse. The roughly 790 posts so far in this thread are written by about 60-80 people total. That isn't a situation. That is barely a large university debate club.
-SYB
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