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Switch to Forum Live View WotC halts sales/downloads from rpgnow.com
4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 7:32PM #2611
Maxperson
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 22,477

krownhunter07 wrote:

It was not in the contract. RPGNow rep said as much. Ignore it if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that Steve clearly said it was not intended as a guarantee and that they messed up (by not stating that clearly enough).


Unless Steve shows us the contract, what he states clearly in a forum where is not under oath under penalty of purgery, is an indicator only, not a fact of the situation. And the way companies lie to us left and right, I take anything told me by one with a few dozen grains of salt.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 7:45PM #2612
Titanium_Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 7,765

Absolutely. The supposed point of suing pirates is to deter those that would be the originators of the files. You can then combine this with DRM/Watermarking and the like to increase the difficulty in someone uploading it.


I think its as simple as this: DRM more intrusive than a CD key is too intrusive, and it isn't likely to be any more effective.

I think ultimately your goal should be not to entirely prevent piracy (an impossible one) but instead to make it more difficult to choose to casually pirate materials.

If you have to go through shady sites to find what you're looking for, you discourage a lot of piracy, and if you make it so people don't just send a copy of their game to their buddy, you discourage a lot of piracy.

3) WoTC ordered the PDFs to be pulled, and the companies had something explicit in their contracts that prevented future downloads to pre-paid customers.


This is a subset of 1.

4) WotC ordered the PDFs to be pulled, and the companies had something in their contracts to enforce future downloads to pre-paid customers but were pressured not to enforce them.


This is a subset of 2.

So, no. I already covered both of these possibilities.

Sort of like how Bush stated clearly that we went into Iraq after WMDs. Then he stated clearly that we went into Iraq to remove Hussein. Then he stated clearly that it was to fight Al Queda.


Comparing someone to Bush is borderline flaming.

Moreover, what reason does Steve have for saying what he is? That'd be like Saddam saying "Yes, we did the wrong thing, we had a chemical weapons program, please invade us."

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 7:51PM #2613
Maxperson
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 22,477

Titanium Dragon wrote:

This is a subset of 1.

This is a subset of 2.


Subsets are still possibilities other than what you listed.

So, no. I already covered both of these possibilities.


No you didn't. Your "possibilities" were VERY specific. Mine were different from yours, so even if they are "subsets", they are stilll possibilities OTHER than your two.

Comparing someone to Bush is borderline flaming.


It's a good thing that I didn't do that then.

Moreover, what reason does Steve have for saying what he is? That'd be like Saddam saying "Yes, we did the wrong thing, we had a chemical weapons program, please invade us


No, that's not what it would be like at all. And Steve has very probable financial reasons for assuming the role of the bad guy. Having WoTC owe him one is a good place to be when you're in the same industry.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 7:54PM #2614
krownhunter07
Date Joined: May 7, 2004
Posts: 2,636

Polaris wrote:

I will make my thoughts on this very simple:

Yes, RPGNow and others were at fault for promising multiple downloads when they weren't absolutely guaranteed they could deliver.


Indeed

Polaris wrote:

However, nobody (or at least almost nobody) saw this sort of across-the-board, punitive action by Wotc against it's PDF fans and retailers...and yes that's exactly what it is.


Almost true. Regardless of how you feel, WotC's decision to stop PDF sells had nothing to do with it's paying customers. Does it effect them, yes. Was it intended as a slap in the face to them, no. Are some people self-absorbed enough to believe it is a personal affront, sadly...

Polaris wrote:

Legal or not, Wotc is making no friends with this move and frankly I don't think their business practices bear up under any kind of scrutiny on this.

That's all.

-Polaris


Wait and see, that's all we can do, yes?

Suck it up and drive on.
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 7:57PM #2615
krownhunter07
Date Joined: May 7, 2004
Posts: 2,636

Maxperson wrote:

No, that's not what it would be like at all. And Steve has very probable financial reasons for assuming the role of the bad guy. Having WoTC owe him one is a good place to be when you're in the same industry.


lol, this makes absolutely no sense. Ask yourself this; did it make a difference? Do people see him as the martyr? Does WotC get any slack from us?

No, no & no.

Suck it up and drive on.
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 7:59PM #2616
eMouse
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 323
I was just reading through the more technical discussions about DRM and watermarking, and I thought I'd point out a reminder that the human component is always the most unreliable in security. Whether it's someone in the print chain that leaks the printer's PDF, or a dummied up purchase using a false ID and someone else's credit card. Why bother finding and stripping out a watermark if you can just give bad information to begin with?

My background in security comes from a 2-season course in 'Burn Notice'. :D
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 8:01PM #2617
falcarrion
Date Joined: Aug 16, 2007
Posts: 2
Every company (that I have worked for),that sells products to the general public being through resellers or direct take in account for stolen or damaged products in there profit margins. I beleive this was true for wotc also. They should have know before they started selling pdfs, the percent of piratcy.
So in my opinoin, they had planned this for a while to eventualy pull the pdf's.
Purely a business decision, but poor excecution.
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 8:04PM #2618
Polaris
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 6,295

eMouse wrote:

I was just reading through the more technical discussions about DRM and watermarking, and I thought I'd point out a reminder that the human component is always the most unreliable in security. Whether it's someone in the print chain that leaks the printer's PDF, or a dummied up purchase using a false ID and someone else's credit card. Why bother finding and stripping out a watermark if you can just give bad information to begin with?

My background in security comes from a 2-season course in 'Burn Notice'. :D


Absolutely! In fact the better your security, the more difficult it is for legitamate users to work. The more difficult it is for people to work, the more and more they will actively bypass and even sabotage your security with no malicious intent whatsoever simply to work more effeciently and easier.

This phenomena is will known within OpSec in the DoD. Security always involves this sort of compromise. Data piracy is no different in that regard.

-Polaris

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 8:04PM #2619
Maxperson
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 22,477

krownhunter07 wrote:

Almost true. Regardless of how you feel, WotC's decision to stop PDF sells had nothing to do with it's paying customers. Does it effect them, yes. Was it intended as a slap in the face to them, no. Are some people self-absorbed enough to believe it is a personal affront, sadly...


Someone who is run over by a truck that didn't mean to, isn't any less injured than if that same truck had meant it.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 12, 2009 - 8:06PM #2620
Maxperson
Date Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 22,477

krownhunter07 wrote:

lol, this makes absolutely no sense. Ask yourself this; did it make a difference? Do people see him as the martyr? Does WotC get any slack from us?

No, no & no.


It's actually yes, yes, and yes. Just because you believe and act as if it's no, no and no, doesnt' mean that everyone does, and if even one person sees him as a martyr and/or gives WoTC some slack, then it makes a difference. How much of a difference depends on how many act that way.

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