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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 10:55AM
#1121
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Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2006
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And back on topic. Good is evil and evil is good, because paladins are enslaved to LG, and slavery is evil.
Commitment to principles, no mater how heartfelt, cannot be compared to being someone's property.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 10:57AM
#1122
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Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2006
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Except not all instances of children being taken from their families is necessarily evil. Ancient Greece allowed citizens to volunteer their children to academies to learn... you gave up your children for the sake of their education. If the Jedi are given children by their parents (such as in the case of Anakin) so they could live better lives as trained Jedi, how is that evil?
That is still not slavery. They are not selling there children as property. There is not only a philosophical difference there is a legal difference between military schools, Greek academies, and outright slavery. In ancient Athens, slaves could not vote. Yet those who attended Plato's Academy could. Clearly, the Greeks themselves did not see the two as equivalent so why are you?
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 11:00AM
#1123
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That is still not slavery. They are not selling there children as property. There is not only a philosophical difference there is a legal difference between military schools, Greek academies, and outright slavery. In ancient Athens, slaves could not vote. Yet those who attended Plato's Academy could. Clearly, the Greeks themselves did not see the two as equivalent so why are you?
Me and williamhm75 are not talking about slavery right now, but rather about factions in Star Wars. I don't see what your point is.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 11:09AM
#1124
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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itself that is immoral.
Anyway, I understand your objections and I understand that you think slavery is amoral not immoral.
No, it IS immoral. It's just not inherently evil in all of its varied institutions.
We are simply in disagreement. I doubt, given what we've discussed so far we are going to change each other's minds so I'll leave it at that.
We can agree here at least 
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 11:10AM
#1125
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That is still not slavery. They are not selling there children as property. There is not only a philosophical difference there is a legal difference between military schools, Greek academies, and outright slavery. In ancient Athens, slaves could not vote. Yet those who attended Plato's Academy could. Clearly, the Greeks themselves did not see the two as equivalent so why are you?
You hit the nail on the head again, which is why I am not surprised at the response to your accurate assesment.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 11:11AM
#1126
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Commitment to principles, no mater how heartfelt, cannot be compared to being someone's property.
Slavery is slavery, no matter what the face, right? A paladin CANNOT go against Good or his Code. Those very few paladins who make the decision to break that(like a slave running away), get slammed down hard(like a slave running away). Paladins have no choice. It's just that their slave master is some nebulous universal force and not another human.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 11:20AM
#1127
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Hm, the 'Paladins are slaves' is an interesting perspective. Paladins aren't even upholding an ideal, they have to obey their god (an individual).
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 11:24AM
#1128
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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Hm, the Paladins are slaves is an interesting perspective. Paladins aren't even upholding an ideal, they have to obey their god (an individual).
In 4ed, yes. In 3ed it's slavery to good and their code.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 12:02PM
#1129
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Hm, the 'Paladins are slaves' is an interesting perspective. Paladins aren't even upholding an ideal, they have to obey their god (an individual).
With the installment of 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons, paladins have seen nearly complete restructuring. Paladins are now champions of a chosen deity rather than just being a righteous warrior. As such, paladins may also have a different alignment from the traditional lawful good, however the paladin's alignment must correspond with his/her chosen god. Another new feature is the permanence of paladinhood. Once a player is ordained as a paladin, he/she cannot fall or have their powers stripped from them in any way. This can allow players to avoid having to 'police' their fellow party members, but depending on one's god, it may be a requirement to try and curb any excessively evil behavior. It is stated that failing to live up to one's deity's tenets will result in that paladin's compatriots hunting down and judging their wayward members.
Slavery: submission to a dominating influence
Chosen:picked out by preference; selected
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4 years ago ::
Mar 30, 2009 - 12:14PM
#1130
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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Except not all instances of children being taken from their families is necessarily evil. Ancient Greece allowed citizens to volunteer their children to academies to learn... you gave up your children for the sake of their education. If the Jedi are given children by their parents (such as in the case of Anakin) so they could live better lives as trained Jedi, how is that evil?
True, but why cant they just wait till the child is old enough to make its own choices? In that case it is bad because the parent is deciding on what the child will do for the rest of its life. Dont you think someone needs to make that sort of life altering descision for themselves? After all Jedi are dedicated to upholding the Council and the republic. No child is going to be able to understand the significance of that. To my mind the old Jedi are more like a cult that brain washes children into their beliefs. After Luke takes over the new order is quite different. In fact Luke even gets married. But the original Jedi were incredibly exclusive, and cold yet totally dedicated to their view of the universe to the point where they cannot accept any view other than their own.
To my mind that makes them a cult.
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