Forget an economic system, having the cost of creating an item go from EXP and getting the items needed to just casting the ritual for full price is a hell of a jump. I realize that there are no balancing factor but making (enchanting) an item should not cost the full price of that item, or there is no reason to make them, cept for personal use.
The Residuom... residium... resident... whatever it is, magic pixie dust, simply is there to give wizards a way to get some value from various magical items instead of selling them for pennies on the dollar. You get the same thing, but in future enchantments instead of paying out gold. It is a no sum advantage.
2-- The rules say you need to break them to make up for bad rules? Really?
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
You use their attacks with your implement bonuses. Which, to my mind, makes the idea od a fighter, MC summoner, WotST, interesting for the ability to mark through a summon.
I think swordmage/wizards are going to really like summons
The rules say you need to break them to make up for bad rules? Really?
Since your entire post is this point, I'll just answer this.
Yes. Are you familiar with the flagship "fix the rules" part of 4E? It's called page 42.
D&D 4E Herald and M:tG Rules Advisor I expect posters to follow the Code of Conduct, use Basic Etiquette, and avoid Poor Logic. If you don't follow these guidelines, I consider you to be disrespectful to everyone on these forums. If you respond to me without following these guidelines, I consider it a personal attack. I grew up in a bilingual household, which means I am familiar with the difficulties in adopting a different vocabulary and grammar. That doesn't bother me. Persistent use of bad capitalization, affirming the consequent, and flaming bother me a great deal.
204.1b Some effects change an object’s card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object’s prior card types, supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase “in addition to its types” or that state that something is “still a [card type].” Some effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.
"Eight Edition Rules Update" We eventually decided not to change this template, because players are used to “becomes an artifact creature,” and like it much better.
Players were used to Combat on the Stack, but you got rid of that because it was unintuitive. The only phrase needed is "in addition to its types"; the others are misleading and unintuitive.
I think swordmage/wizards are going to really like summons
Swordmages mark a burst around themselves, though. Unless they can channel that through the summon it doesn't really work. Fighters stand a better chance of pulling this off because they just mark on attack.
Since your entire post is this point, I'll just answer this.
Yes. Are you familiar with the flagship "fix the rules" part of 4E? It's called page 42.
I remember when people would suggest this to fix supposedly 'bad' parts of 3.5e. They got shot down. "This" being houserules to fix problematic areas of the rules, but now it's supposedly okay because the DMG tells you to? (It's funny because every DMG never tells you to expressly follow the rules and put your own in if it's more convenient to do so).
I remember when people would suggest this to fix supposedly 'bad' parts of 3.5e. They got shot down. "This" being houserules to fix problematic areas of the rules, but now it's supposedly okay because the DMG tells you to?
Yeah? Where are 3e's guidelines on adjudicating situations the rules do not cover? 4e has rules on how to adjust. 3e does not. Quite a difference.
D&D 4E Herald and M:tG Rules Advisor I expect posters to follow the Code of Conduct, use Basic Etiquette, and avoid Poor Logic. If you don't follow these guidelines, I consider you to be disrespectful to everyone on these forums. If you respond to me without following these guidelines, I consider it a personal attack. I grew up in a bilingual household, which means I am familiar with the difficulties in adopting a different vocabulary and grammar. That doesn't bother me. Persistent use of bad capitalization, affirming the consequent, and flaming bother me a great deal.
204.1b Some effects change an object’s card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object’s prior card types, supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase “in addition to its types” or that state that something is “still a [card type].” Some effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.
"Eight Edition Rules Update" We eventually decided not to change this template, because players are used to “becomes an artifact creature,” and like it much better.
Players were used to Combat on the Stack, but you got rid of that because it was unintuitive. The only phrase needed is "in addition to its types"; the others are misleading and unintuitive.
Yeah? Where are 3e's guidelines on adjudicating situations the rules do not cover? 4e has rules on how to adjust. 3e does not. Quite a difference.
There's no difference at all. It tells you to use rule 0 (that is 'use your own judgement in determining what to do) with circumstance modifiers (in the PHB and DMG in 3.5e) and a general damage expression table, which the page is based off of monster damage in some fashion or another.
The whole page is flat-out unnecessary.
That wasn't even my point, however, as it was that rule 0 appears to be a valid defense recently when before 4th edition it wasn't where there is no reason whatsoever that it should be now more than it was before.
I am sorry, but page 42 is not the answer to every bad rule in any edition. It covers on the fly rulings and adjustments, not flawed treasure allotments.
Like I said, I am gonna try it for now, and see how it works out. I just don't see it doing well.
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
That's another thing I meant to touch on and didn't;
4E's retraining rules make it much less painful to climb those long feat chains.
Yeah I meant to talk about that and forgot too - 4e's retraining rules are great. But then, it came after 3e, and they are essentially a re-working of the 3e PHB2 retraining rules. It only makes sense (I used retraining in my 3e game ever since PHB2 came out - I think it's crazy not to). :P
Vaalingrade Ashland wrote:
Which was a lot of my problem. There were so many 'Get In Your Damn Box' things in the game.
Along with the bajillion ways of getting out of said box in the game. Like all the ones I mentioned above. You can play one of the light armor casters and blow 2 feats, or take 3 levels of Spellsword (net loss of 1-2 casting levels) and get some mithral Twilight plate, or...
2 feats in 3e vs 4 feats in 4e is, in fact, almost exactly equal in what you give up, IMO.
MrCelsius wrote:
Ehh, I'll just throw in the minor quibble that 10% miss chance and 10% spell failure are two different animals in this age of 'effect:' and 'miss:' lines, and that 10% miss is more easily adjusted for (just be more fastidious about flanking, stand next to the Knight Commander, etc) than the 'you will waste your action/prepared spell this percentage of the time' of 3e ASF.
And I'll just have to go with "10% in 4e" and "10% in 3e" are also two different animals - in 3e's age of non-somatic and Stilled spells. Granted there aren't that many non-somatics, but I've seen people do the "Still every spell I know" trick before - it actually works well when you consider you can always take off the armor one day, and you effectively blew one feat and one (temporary) spell level to do it and cast in a grapple (one of the 3e wizard's major banes).
I would also like to mention, again, that it only takes two feats to do it with a light armor caster in 3e.
I am sorry, but page 42 is not the answer to every bad rule in any edition. It covers on the fly rulings and adjustments, not flawed treasure allotments.
Like I said, I am gonna try it for now, and see how it works out. I just don't see it doing well.
No, it doesn't. I named it only as the flagship, not as the only rule. The rules for treasure allotment tell you how to award treasure, and tell you what not to do. Things like Do not give out 1 parcel per encounter. Do not use only parcels from the character's level. Do not use the same table for parties of different sizes.
It gives you guidelines on how to maintain balance without adhering to a strict schedule. It allows flexibility in distribution, without risking an imbalance due to too much or too little wealth. Instead of letting the DM flap in the wind, it tells the DM how to modify things.
Warweaver wrote:
Along with the bajillion ways of getting out of said box in the game. Like all the ones I mentioned above. You can play one of the light armor casters and blow 2 feats, or take 3 levels of Spellsword (net loss of 1-2 casting levels) and get some mithral Twilight plate, or...
2 feats in 3e vs 4 feats in 4e is, in fact, almost exactly equal in what you give up, IMO.
One difference: you're comparing all of 3e to the first year of 4e. 3e did not have as many "outs" as 4e did at the same point.
D&D 4E Herald and M:tG Rules Advisor I expect posters to follow the Code of Conduct, use Basic Etiquette, and avoid Poor Logic. If you don't follow these guidelines, I consider you to be disrespectful to everyone on these forums. If you respond to me without following these guidelines, I consider it a personal attack. I grew up in a bilingual household, which means I am familiar with the difficulties in adopting a different vocabulary and grammar. That doesn't bother me. Persistent use of bad capitalization, affirming the consequent, and flaming bother me a great deal.
204.1b Some effects change an object’s card type, supertype, or subtype but specify that the object retains a prior card type, supertype, or subtype. In such cases, all the object’s prior card types, supertypes, and subtypes are retained. This rule applies to effects that use the phrase “in addition to its types” or that state that something is “still a [card type].” Some effects state that an object becomes an “artifact creature”; these effects also allow the object to retain all of its prior card types and subtypes.
"Eight Edition Rules Update" We eventually decided not to change this template, because players are used to “becomes an artifact creature,” and like it much better.
Players were used to Combat on the Stack, but you got rid of that because it was unintuitive. The only phrase needed is "in addition to its types"; the others are misleading and unintuitive.
