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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 6:52AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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Re: Measurement in squares:
The books do say that a square is about five feet wide. It doesn't peg it to that distance exactly because it's intended that you can scale the actual size of the squares up or down as need to accommodate areas that don't fit neatly to five-foot increments. If the room is 12x18 rather than 10x15, it's still 2x3 squares large. (You could also declare it to be 3x4 or even 2x4 - the squares don't have to be perfectly square.)
Another reason for using squares becomes apparent when you consider that the game is international: Squares are essentially a universal measurement, whereas feet are primarily used in the US - most other countries are metric, and foot-distance measurements can be downright confusing to people who aren't used to the imperial system. (I had this issue in 2E and 3E with a player from Germany, who couldn't for the life of him grasp just how long distances were when measured in feet.) Now, you can say that one square equals whatever unit of measure you're most comfortable with, whether that's X feet or Y meters.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 6:55AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2008
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Another reason for using squares becomes apparent when you consider that the game is international: Squares are essentially a universal measurement, whereas feet are primarily used in the US - most other countries are metric, and foot-distance measurements can be downright confusing to people who aren't used to the imperial system. (I had this issue in 2E and 3E with a player from Germany, who couldn't for the life of him grasp just how long distances were when measured in feet.) Now, you can say that one square equals whatever unit of measure you're most comfortable with, whether that's X feet or Y meters.
Excellent points. While I was in Korea, we had a large group that had a few Koreans in it. They had no idea what we were talking about when it came to distance in feet, so we all had to do some conversions into metric. I made a few conversion sheets and placed them into everyones' PHBs. It wasn't long before we were all discussing distance in metric terms.
In fond memory of Mark "Wrecan" Monack.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 7:21AM
#33
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Hokus:
I totally understand the differences between boardgame and wargame, but I don't have the personal investment needed for that understanding to shape my vocabulary.
To put it another way, I know the difference between an ale and a lager, but since I don't care (I'm a non-drinker) they're both just beer.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 7:51AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2008
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Hokus:
I totally understand the differences between boardgame and wargame, but I don't have the personal investment needed for that understanding to shape my vocabulary.
To put it another way, I know the difference between an ale and a lager, but since I don't care (I'm a non-drinker) they're both just beer.
Oh, don't get me wrong...that was in no way any kind of challenge to your point...I was just stating my own opinions of what each of those sub-genres were to me.
In fond memory of Mark "Wrecan" Monack.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 7:58AM
#35
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Date Joined:
Dec 16, 2007
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The combat in 4th edition feels wargamey because of the clear reliance on minis ans grids.
Most people use tabletop and board interchangeably.
And (of course) 4th edition is far more than just combat.
It is? Seems like the majority of 4Es changes to simplify the game removed most of the role-playing opportunities. Hard to role-play when everything is just given to you and you have no restrictions. And, I mean, have you even SEEN Martial Power? It's cover to cover combat powers, completely lacking any of the role-play material that 3.5E's "Completes" had. WotC knows it's audience and it knows that it wants to outsell White Wolf.
I don't make the rules, I just think them up and write them down. - Eric Cartman
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 7:59AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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I wonder if the idea that it is boardgamey comes from the following:
In general, most rules in a boardgame are discrete chunks. They tell you exactly what the rule is about, and what it does. There is very little room left for interpretation. Taken in isolation, the pwers/exploits/spells of 4E are very similar. That, combined with the fact that effects such as push/pull/slide are easier to visualize with miniatures and "pushing them around" brings it closer to a boardgame-style of play.
However, D&D comes with all of the other stuff (the only limit is your imagination) that break it out of the board-game mold.
(I am referring to Western-style boardgames here. I am not familiar enough with german-style games to know if it is applicable for them as well.)
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 8:08AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2006
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When did fireballs become cubes? Was it really so hard to work with a circle on a grid when they gave you the template?
Not really, as long as they say something like "Unless a square is COMPLETELY covered, it's not affected. Just give a rule as to how to handle "partial squares" and you're good.
If anything I say is wrong, clueless or spelt incorrectly, it is because, I am, in general, wrong, clueless and... Well, I'm usually spelt correctly.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 8:10AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Sep 19, 2008
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Wargame: Tactical game with a board and pieces that involve total player interaction in which a victor can be determined, but with a much more flexible time-frame.
(Emphasis mine)
I've never played a wargame. Heck, I've never even played RISK. But I strongly suspect that I would also say that wargames feel like board games. To me, wargame would be a subset of board game. The other subset - the one that includes Sorry and Clue - would be something like "family board game" or "party game".
So, to me anyway, 4e feeling like a wargame would not mean it doesn't also feel like a board game. But of course I might feel differently after I played a few wargames. 
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 8:11AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2008
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Seems like the majority of 4Es changes to simplify the game removed most of the role-playing opportunities. Hard to role-play when everything is just given to you and you have no restrictions.
While I do understand why people might think this, it simply does not play out like this in-game. I have yet to have, between my 4 groups that I DM for, any feelings of a "lack of RP" due to the rules. If anything, the players are RPing more, since their hands aren't tied by erroneous rules that govern every little thing they could do. If they want to do it, they do it. It's MY job, as the DM, to let them know if they can or not within the bounds of the campaign...and what the consequences will be if they do. I don't know how many players I've had tell me how glad they are to not have to drop points into crafting skills just to make a new quiver for their arrows (and dozens of other examples).
In fond memory of Mark "Wrecan" Monack.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2009 - 8:14AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jan 16, 2003
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For those that actually and honeslty feel that way (instead of just latching onto the soundbite), it's probably because the 'stand and slug' style is gone. Instead of only moving to engage, you're able to and in most cases, expected to move every round. And if you don't move, other things will move you.
For those not used to visualizing these things as stumbles, being knocked back, etc, they only see moving minis around. They just need to retrain themselves to visualize it properly.
Sig to be rebuilt soonThe Descendants-- the webserial that reads like a comic book! World of Ere-- A campaign setting that puts style to the fore.
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