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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:38AM
#1
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Date Joined:
May 26, 2008
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http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235459So, I have a player in my group that REFUSES to fulfill his role as defender in the party. He is a paladin-- who chose daggers as a weapon because they did the least damage (he is trying to make his character less effective for some reason). He insists on hiding in the back ranks and throwing daggers, and because he is a Paladin of the Raven Queen, he refuses to use his Lay on Hands on dying PCs because "it's their time".
How do I deal with this guy? So far I have come up with the idea of using peer pressure and a set of agreed upon rules (our mercenary company charter, seen here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235454).
Of course we have tried talking to him-- explaining that maybe warlock, rogue, or ranger might be better for him, but he insists he wants his "character concept" to be a halfling paladin who dual-wields daggers.
Anything else I can do?
I realize that jerk players have been a problem since 1e, but seriously, I hate this notion that you have to fulfill your class "role." There should be nothing wrong mechanically with a dagger-throwing paladin.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:41AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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This isn't a problem with class roles. This is a problem of a player deciding to play against what their class is designed for.
This is the same situation as a picking a 3.5 wizard and not actually casting any spells at all but using a crossbow or going into melee.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:43AM
#3
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http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=235459
I realize that jerk players have been a problem since 1e, but seriously, I hate this notion that you have to fulfill your class "role." There should be nothing wrong mechanically with a dagger-throwing paladin.
This has precisely 0 to do with class roles. This has to do with a player that wants to play something directly against type. In a game that's anything other than free-form, that's going to cause problems.
Besides, there are powers he can pick that don't really care what weapon he's using. And if he's really dedicated to the dagger idea, he can multiclass into Rogue.
There's no problem here that is somehow unique to 4E; the guy's playing a character the way it is intentionally because it sucks. How is that new?
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:46AM
#4
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[url]There should be nothing wrong mechanically with a dagger-throwing paladin.
There should be nothing wrong mechanically with a rogue trying to be the party healer?
There should be nothing wrong mechanically with an archer ranger fighting with a greataxe?
There should be nothing wrong mechanically with a fighter who only uses a bow?
This isn't a class role complaint you've got, it's a complaint that there's a class system at all. You can't intentionally pick a class that's incapable at what you want to do and then complain that your PC is terrible.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:46AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2008
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There's plenty wrong with a dagger throwing Paladin. Namely, that the player is insistent on playing a Defender called Paladin to throw daggers with. If the player wants to play the Rogue or Ranger class, then play his character as a very devout hero of his god, then he's free to do that.
Your class doesn't define your character. It just helps shape how the character acts. There's enough roles to cover a broad spectrum of character activity. It's not a weird trick to pick the role that corresponds to most closely how your character acts.
If I play any other system and I design my character around wielding longswords, shields, armor, and attacking with magic, then turn around once combat starts and try using fists and forehead, there will always be a problem.
The Bruce Campbell of D&D.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:49AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jan 16, 2003
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So one guy decides to sabotage his party and it's the fault of an entirely unrelated concept?
Sig to be rebuilt soonThe Descendants-- the webserial that reads like a comic book! World of Ere-- A campaign setting that puts style to the fore.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:50AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2005
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"Paladin" is the mechanical name for a certain type of defender that has secondary leader capabilities. Its default flavor is that of a faith-based front-liner that uses prayers.
A dagger-thrower who isn't interested in healing other players is, mechanically, a "Rogue." The character can be described thematically as a "paladin of the Raven Queen" if the player so desires.
This player is intentionally being obtuse.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:53AM
#8
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- Unleash the robotic My Little Dinosaurs!
Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2003
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There should be nothing wrong mechanically with a wizard who only beats stuff with a greatsword and never casts spells.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:53AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2006
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While I would raise my eyebrows, if this is the way the player wants to play...and the rest of the group are ok with it too...then he should, and the group will have to understand that he isn't really a defender or a healer. He is what he is.
The challenge rests with the players acceptance and the DM's understanding of the make up of the group.
In 4e, someone has to do the defender job, however. Too many of the encounters get to hand to hand, leaving someone that needs to take the bulk of the damage.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2008 - 10:53AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2007
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The guy in the quote is a d-bag. This is evidenced most strongly not by his choice to play against role, but in his refusal to heal because he follows the Raven Queen. It's a cop out reason for trying to break the game and crap on everyone's fun. He hates 4e so he is trying to make his group feel the same. That's all it is. If you doubt me, check out the thread about the Raven Queen on this very board. It should shed some light on how many of us think followers of her can be played without being a$$holes.
Resident Prophet of the OTTer.Section Six Soldier Front Door of the House of Trolls If you're terribly afraid of your character dying, it may be best if you roleplayed something other than an adventurer.
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