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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 8:11AM
#1
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This thread will hopefully open up and expand upon the pros and cons of these 2 different grid systems. Both have advantages and disadvantages.
1-inch SQUARE grids:
[INDENT]Pros:
[LIST][*]Easy to map out most rooms, since most rooms/walls are rectangles and straight.
[*]Easy to move in the 8 compass directions
[*]You can print out map grids quick and easy[/LIST]
Cons:
[LIST][*]The Blast/Burst radii are in squares, instead of a true circle. Forming the radii into a circle overlayed onto squares could bring about some debate by the players/DM and could prolong battles.
[*]When creating a room description, it's easy to get sucked into every room dimension being divisible by 5. [/LIST]
[/INDENT]
1-inch HEX grids:
[INDENT]Pros:
[LIST][*]Blast/Burst radii easier to convert to circular, although it hits less squares. Close Burst 1 normally hits 8 squares, it now hits 6. But it's more realistic.
[*]Dungeons and caves can be mapped out much easier.
[*][/LIST]
Cons:
[LIST][*]You may need to create a blast template until you get used to it.
[*][/LIST]
[/INDENT]
Here are some examples of BURST:
A Burst in SQUARE grid hits the Target square, and every square emanating out on all sides.
Burst 1 = 3x3 = 9
Burst 2 = 5x5 = 25 squares.
Burst 3 = 7x7 = 49 squares.
A Burst in HEX grid hit the Target square, and every square emanating out. Every tier out is multiplied by 6. and added to the previous.
Burst 1 is (6x1)+1=7,
Burst 2 is (6x2)+(6x1)+1 = 12+7=19.
Burst 3 is (6x3)+(6x2)+(6x1)+1=18+19=37.
As you can see, the HEX grid his less squares, but it seems that it would also hit more accurately. This may make the damage of your spells or powers less effective in Burst/Blast areas, but also your opponents are less effective as well.
This would also change the flanking. No longer can you be flanked on 4 axis (front/back, sides, and 2 diagonals), but only on 3. Instead of being surrounded by 8 enemies, which is extremely crowded (too crowded, in my opinion, to effectively battle), you can now only be surrounded by 6.
Battles may play out a little longer, as there would be more maneuverability in HEX grid, less damage done in Blast/Burst effects, and less flanking bonuses.
I'm eager to hear your thoughts and comments, either for or against.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 9:10AM
#2
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I prefer hexes for outdoor maps, and grids for indoor maps. Call me old school. :D
Here are the PHB Essentia, in my opinion: - Three Basic Rules (p 11)
- Power Types and Usage (p 54)
- Skills (p178-179)
- Feats (p 192)
- Rest and Recovery (p 263)
- All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 9:12AM
#3
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Call me old school. :D
OLDSCHOOL!
I prefer squares for D&D. Other games may fare better with hexes.
If you have questions about 4th Edition - don't hesitate to ask me via PMs. I am a cartographer. You can find some of my maps in my profile, free for non-commercial use. Also, if you happen to like maps or make them yourselves, join into the Cartographers Group!If you like or are interested in Go, join the group!Best weapon in 4E? A burning table and a dwarf jumping from the roof. Boy, combat with creative folks turns out to be just awesome. Add to that lightning rails and an artificer.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 9:24AM
#4
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Hexes would be tempting. Care to compare the effect areas for Blasts, as well as Bursts?
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 10:12AM
#5
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I've always loved and preferred hexes for the reasons you outlined above. I go back to the old days of Metagaming's The Fantasy Trip (Melee and Wizard) which sort of eventually became GURPS, all hex based. The biggest disadvantage is that hexes are just so clunky for mapping out rectangular-based environs. You know, dungeons and such. :)
As a result, I pretty much reserve hexes for flexible environments such as the outdoors, irregular caverns and such, but fall back on squares for straightforward dungeons, castles, haunted houses and most man-made structures.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 10:33AM
#6
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I usually prefer hexes, but have been using squares for D&D inside and out (because my dungeon tiles are neat). That said, once I have the time, space, and players to play more seriously and more often I may break out my heroscape hexes for outside combat.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 11:35AM
#7
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Like Seeker95, I use hexes for outdoors, squares for indoors. And yes, I'm old school (since '77).
:D
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 11:40AM
#8
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Hexes would be tempting. Care to compare the effect areas for Blasts, as well as Bursts?
Hrmm.. As a comparison, in SQUARES
Blast 3 = Burst 1 + the center target hex.
Blast 5 = Burst 2 + the center target hex.
Blast 6 = Burst 3 + the center target hex.
etc...
HEXES are quite different
As for even numbered blasts, I would simply round everything up to the next odd number. This being for several reasons.
1) The calculations involved to accurately choose which hexes to include and which to leave out would be soley up to the DM. Players could call foul.
2) The number of HEXES affected would be lower than the number of SQUARES, so increasing to the next higher odd number will more even out the results.
BLAST 1 (SQ and HX) - 1 target square
BLAST 2 (SQ) = 4 targets
BURST 1 (HX) = 6 targets
[INDENT]these 2 are close enough to freely exchange
Blast 2 = Burst 1 .... Save for half[/INDENT]
BLAST 3 (SQ) = 9 targets
BURST 1 (HX) = 6 targets
BURST 2 (HX) = 18 targets
[INDENT]Normally the difference between BLAST 3 and BURST 1 is 1 target, the center. In HEX there are 2 more targets gone.
BLAST 3 = BURST 1[/INDENT]
BLAST 4 (SQ) = 16 targets
BURST 2 (HX) = 18 targets
[INDENT]Close enough to equal, only 1 target off
Blast 4 = Burst 2[/INDENT]
BLAST 5 (SQ) = 25 targets
BURST 2 (HX) = 18 targets
BURST 3 (HX) = 36 targets
[INDENT]So above, you can choose to have a BLAST 5 = Burst 2 or Burst 3. One is too low, one is too high. Here is why ruling.
Blast 5 = Burst 3 ... All targets in the outer ring take half damage, and save for none[/INDENT]
BLAST 6 (SQ) = 36 targets
BURST 3 (SQ) = 36 targets
[INDENT]Blast 6 = Burst 3[/INDENT]
I'm not familiar enough with the spells to know if there are any past Blast 6. I did see a wizard spell Detect Objects (100 squares) or Legions Hold Close Burst 20, but using the formulas above, and in the first post, you can come up with a ruling quite easily.
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For those who claim this to be better used in outdoors and caverns, I heartily agree. My use of the HEX would be only for caverns and outdoor environments.
One could simply say that movement indoors is different and that damage indoors and outdoors is altered due to environmental factors.
Thanks for your comments. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that uses HEX maps. I'm going to update my Interlocking 1" grid template to use 1" Hex grids as well, for those who would use them.
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 11:43AM
#9
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I started with hexes and have since moved to squares. Easier for me to draw stuff out on squares.
—fo diggity
Twitter: www.twitter.com/fodigg
Comic Books You Should Have Read: http://tinyurl.com/ycxe9l7
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1 year ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 12:42PM
#10
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When I first started DMing I exclusivly used a hex grid, though now I use squares (due to Dungeon Tiles and Fantastic Location maps). Drawing squared off rooms with hexes isn't to hard, if you know how. It's a lot like the advice given in the 4e DMG on drawing diaganal walls.
The diagnal movement rules, as well as blast and burst always being boxes, have made me once again consider hexes (though my DTs and FLs will probably keep me in squares). Bursts are easy, but for blasts rather then try and keep them circular I though it might be better to make them cones, scince that seems to be the type of effect they typicaly replaced from the previous edition.
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