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I completely agree.


Considering that every instance of poison that I had seen before D&D simply made your health bar/bottle go green and slowly drain away - I thought it was quite a novel idea that poison struck directly at your constitution and could kill you, regardless of how many HP you had.

the main reason i believe they took out ability damage is for bookkeeping reasons.

let's say you're using a monster that has an attack that deals strength damage and you happen to hit the Fighter type. this makes him recalculate:

-grapple mod
-melee attack mod
-melee damage mod
-can he still use his str requiring feats?
-his major skills

spellcasters getting hit to their main stat get nerfed also
-possibility of loss of spell level if your stat drops too low
-loss of bonus spell slots
-save DCs for spells go down
-generally their major skills are hit

unless you have access to someone who can heal ability damage (which no party should be without), it recovers slowly at 1/day, or 2 with rest if memory serves.

so you have to recalculate the next day. and the next.

that and all that recalculating generally jams the breaks on the game as the player re-calculates all the values affected.

i'm guessing but more then likely poisons and such in 4th will have a very specific but long lasting effect:

-blinding
-slowed speed
-negatives to ranged/melee attack rolls
-negatives to physical/magical damage
-cannot access some features (healing surges, action points, ect...)
-ect...

generally less bookkeeping as only one thing is affected and not a blanket of your charsheet.

oxybe wrote:

the main reason i believe they took out ability damage is for bookkeeping reasons.

let's say you're using a monster that has an attack that deals strength damage and you happen to hit the Fighter type. this makes him recalculate:

-grapple mod
-melee attack mod
-melee damage mod
-can he still use his str requiring feats?
-his major skills

Yeah. It's a feat of gigantic mental strength to have to try and figure out what 12 - 2 is.

spellcasters getting hit to their main stat get nerfed also
-possibility of loss of spell level if your stat drops too low
-loss of bonus spell slots
-save DCs for spells go down
-generally their major skills are hit

Again, this is basic math of the simplest kind.

unless you have access to someone who can heal ability damage (which no party should be without), it recovers slowly at 1/day, or 2 with rest if memory serves.

Making it a 10 day ordeal IF you had a 20 in the stat AND got drained to 0. Neither of which were common occurrances. Usually you just got hit for 1-6 points max.

so you have to recalculate the next day. and the next.

No, you don't. You only have to do the simple basic math IF you had to use the affected mechanic. Most mechanics weren't used during that period of time, so you really only had a very small amount of basic math to do, and it didn't slow the game down more than a few seconds. People who play this game tend to be smart enough to be able to add and subract small sums very quickly.

that and all that recalculating generally jams the breaks on the game as the player re-calculates all the values affected.

Er, no.

i'm guessing but more then likely poisons and such in 4th will have a very specific but long lasting effect:

-blinding
-slowed speed
-negatives to ranged/melee attack rolls
-negatives to physical/magical damage
-cannot access some features (healing surges, action points, ect...)
-ect...

So they become even less effective than ever before. Joy.

Voice: Did you do it?

Assassin: Yes, I've been feeding the King 2 gallons of poison every day for a month, but he just slows down a bit. It's very strange.

Voice: Wasn't a single one ounce doze supposed to give him CON loss and kill him?

Assassin: Well, it used to, but now that 4ed is out, we can't kill anyone with it anymore. I was hoping that if I fed him gallons of the stuff, he might drown. ::shuffles his feet in embarrassment::

Maxperson wrote:

Yeah. It's a feat of gigantic mental strength to have to try and figure out what 12 - 2 is.

You are correct, the recalculations are not mentally taxing.
What they are is tedious, annoying, and not what I want to spend my time between actions doing. Especially if I am the DM. Every second I spend calculating monster stats is a second I have 5 people sitting around wondering why I can't keep the combat flowing smoothly.

Dropping a sledgehammer on my foot is easy. It is not how I prefer to spend my leisure time.

Maxperson wrote:

Voice: Did you do it?

Assassin: Yes, I've been feeding the King 2 gallons of poison every day for a month, but he just slows down a bit. It's very strange.

Voice: Wasn't a single one ounce doze supposed to give him CON loss and kill him?

Assassin: Well, it used to, but now that 4ed is out, we can't kill anyone with it anymore. I was hoping that if I fed him gallons of the stuff, he might drown. ::shuffles his feet in embarrassment::

Did you have a character actually try to kill someone by stealth with a poison in 3.5?

King: I feel a bit weak this morning. I wonder if one of my rivals slipped something in my wine last night. Summon my priest!

Cleric: *casts lesser restoration*

King: Ah, much better. Now where is that stack of death warrants I need to sign?


If you want to kill someone with poison in 3.5, it either has to do obscene amounts of con damage (3d6 to kill the average commoner) or cause death on a failed save.

If you want to kill someone with poison in 4E you need something like 5HP ongoing, no save with a delayed onset so they die in their sleep, or one that causes death on a failed save.

I'm not seeing a big change in lethality, just in mechanics.