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7 months ago ::
Nov 06, 2012 - 1:58PM
#12791
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2012
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The Avenger power Inexorable Pursuit grants phasing until end of turn. This is listed in an effect line before the attack.
Does this mean it could be used for the effect without making the attack (e.g. out of combat)?
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7 months ago ::
Nov 06, 2012 - 1:59PM
#12792
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Sure.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 06, 2012 - 5:42PM
#12793
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
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Sure.
now I remember a discussion about how powers that are attack powers require a credible threat or something in order to be used ? Isn't there an issue with just spamming powers like that to gain effects from them without being in an encounter ?
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
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7 months ago ::
Nov 06, 2012 - 5:43PM
#12794
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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What you are thinking Noctaem is the Legitimate Target rules, also commonly known as Bag of Rats rule. Its not applicable here, since Inexorable Pursuit's Phasing is an effect that occurs as an Effect, not upon Hitting a target. DMG 40 Legitimate Targets: When a power has an effect that occurs upon hitting a target—or reducing a target to 0 hit points—the power functions only when the target in question is a meaningful threat. Characters can gain no benefit from carrying a sack of rats in hopes of healing their allies by hitting the rats.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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7 months ago ::
Nov 06, 2012 - 5:48PM
#12795
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
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ok and since the effect of gaining phasing occurs before the attack line, the logic is that it doesn't fall under "an effect that occurs upon hitting a target" and so allows a player to gain phasing. Hm well good enough then, I guess I just don't like what else might be possible by this reasoning.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
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7 months ago ::
Nov 06, 2012 - 6:00PM
#12796
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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People overgeneralize the bag of rats rules way more than is appropriate.
In this specific case, you can always say "I am trying to attack the hidden colossal greatwyrm that I'm pretty sure is over there!"
There's no way to separate this from a 'legitimate' hidden threat. Which is why use of bag of rats to prevent it isn't appropriate.
Really, the point of the rule is to not result in blatantly cheesy exploits. Using Inexorable Pursuit as a "you gain phasing" utility power is just doing what the power always does - it's not out of line of the expected potency, which means the motivation for bag of rats doesn't exist.
There is no hard-and-fast answer to bag of rats, but people overuse it and squelch legitimate uses of powers.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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7 months ago ::
Nov 06, 2012 - 11:04PM
#12797
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Date Joined:
Apr 16, 2009
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ok and since the effect of gaining phasing occurs before the attack line, the logic is that it doesn't fall under "an effect that occurs upon hitting a target" and so allows a player to gain phasing. Hm well good enough then, I guess I just don't like what else might be possible by this reasoning.
Not quite right.
It's because the effect of gaining phasing is *not* in the *hit* line.
It doesn't matter if an effect line is before or after the attack line.
And it also works on benefits in the miss line, if you happen to miss the rats.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
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7 months ago ::
Nov 06, 2012 - 11:12PM
#12798
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FWIW, the conditions for the Bag of Rats rule were changed in the Rules Compendium (page 108) to "hitting, missing, or otherwise affecting a target". It's irrelevant whether the effect requires a hit. What matters is whether it is phrased in such a way that it requires a target.
Basically, it can be read as "When a power says 'target', that means something like that orc warrior over there, not the harmless rat he's eating."
But, as Mand12 says, the rule should only be invoked to prevent clear cases of abuse.
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7 months ago ::
Nov 07, 2012 - 4:01AM
#12799
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Date Joined:
Jan 20, 2011
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All right, I'll admit that my forum search skills suck, this may have been answered before. If so, my apologies. Question regarding the 2nd level utility power from the Bregan D'aerthe Mercenary theme: Spoiler:
Show
Weapon Ring
With a flick of a finger, you produce a blade seemingly from thin air.
At-Will Arcane, Transmutation Minor Action Melee touch Target: One nonliving object of 5 lb. or less that you are holding
Effect: You change the target object into a small ring on one of your fingers, or change the ring back into the object. You can have only one such ring at a time. If the ring is removed from your finger, it returns to its original form. If the item transmuted is an arcane implement, such as a rod, is that item still considered to be wielded? If yes, would it be possible to hold something else in that hand and gain benefit from it? To be more specific, If my Drow Fey-Pact Hexblade, with the Bregan D'aerthe Mercenary theme, used the above power to shrink his Rod of the Feywild +3 into a ring, (and wore said ring, of course, with no other ring on that hand) could he then hold an Incisive Dagger +3 in that hand to gain its bonus to teleport range, while still maintaining his Blade of Winter's Mourning (hexblade weapon) ?
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7 months ago ::
Nov 07, 2012 - 6:19AM
#12800
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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In this specific case, you can't do what you want because the rules for manifesting a pact weapon specify that you have to hold the implement (even if it's one that doesn't need to be held, like a ki focus or holy symbol).
You could turn it into a ring, but then you'd have to hold the ring to manifest and maintain the pact weapon.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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