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NinjaKhan
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May 10, 2013 2:03 AM PDT
I had gathered as much, and I find it very.. ironic?.. that the 'weapon' which bypasses the rules ambiguity is in the "unarmed" weapon group.Generally speaking however, I suppose I should abandon all hope of ever getting/finding an offical WotC reply
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RisingZan
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May 10, 2013 8:42 AM PDT
Figuring out the interaction of feats like TWF and MUS is a bit tricky because of the exact wording of the feats and MUS, and they should have just issued a clear ruling in PHB3 to make it clear. TWF and TWD both specify you must be "wielding a mel
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mvincent
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May 10, 2013 12:34 PM PDT
"clearing" zero squares still moves you one 1 square (i.e. jumping moves you to the square on the other side of the distance you "clear"). PHB p.182: "The creature lands 1 square beyond the squares it clears." "If the creature ends the movement over
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RisingZan
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May 10, 2013 1:15 PM PDT
"clearing" zero squares still moves you one 1 square (i.e. jumping moves you to the square on the other side of the distance you "clear"). PHB p.182: "The creature lands 1 square beyond the squares it clears." "If the creature ends the movement over
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mvincent
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May 10, 2013 1:47 PM PDT
Wierd. The RC p.40 chart does indeed conflict with it's associated text. I believe the text in this case takes precedence over the chart (since no exception was noted for the calculation).
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NinjaKhan
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May 10, 2013 4:03 PM PDT
To be perfectly honest, I think most anti-twf sentiments about this discussion are formed around a rule that does not exist in 4e.They specified it this way in 3e because it served a very specific purpose, and that had to do with the distinction betw
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Undrhil
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May 10, 2013 8:44 PM PDT
To be perfectly honest, I think most anti-twf sentiments about this discussion are formed around a rule that does not exist in 4e.They specified it this way in 3e because it served a very specific purpose, and that had to do with the distinction betw
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RisingZan
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May 10, 2013 9:22 PM PDT
I actually think the Monk as a Psionic class, making Ki a form of psionics, makes sense.Also, I don't have a problem with Monk's making an off-hand attack with his unarmed strike. In fact, only monks can make an off-hand attack with their Monk Unarm
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Qwhatchet
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May 10, 2013 10:51 PM PDT
Mindwarp Staff + Mindbite Scorn.The staff adds +2 bonus to damage rolls (from psychic origin), Mindbite scorn gives one extra curse die (which you roll) that is psychic damage.So my question is, if I use, say, Hand of Blight (which has a psychic keyw
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Plaguescarred
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May 11, 2013 12:28 AM PDT
Mindbite Scorn increase Warlock's Cuse damage, which will be in addition to Hand of Blight's damage being an extra damage but this entire process is still a single damage roll and so Mindwarp Staff's bonus will apply only once.
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NinjaKhan
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May 11, 2013 2:41 AM PDT
You do realize how ridiculous that argument is when you replace Monk Unarmed Strike with Spiked Gauntlet, correct?This is the logic being used:"I am wearing two spiked gauntlets on my fists, how many weapons do I have? Two.""I take off the spiked gau
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Qwhatchet
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May 11, 2013 6:33 AM PDT
Thank you Plaguescarred, I do have one more quick question.When using 'Dual Implement Spellcaster' + 'Vicious Rod (d8 Curse Damage) + Mindwarp Staff (of Ruin in this case), in the builder, if I look under the powers, it takes the properties of the Vi
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crimson_vampr
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May 11, 2013 7:08 AM PDT
I think if you look at the monk unarmed strike you'd find your answer. It's a simple one-hand weapon in the unarmed weapon group with the off hand property. The Monk class doesn't give you an unarmed strike, it gives you proficiency with the unarmed
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Plaguescarred
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May 11, 2013 2:51 PM PDT
Its a bug from the Character Builder IMO, since Dual Implement Spellcaster doesn't use the off-hand implement's Property, only it’s enhancement bonus to damage rolls and you're not dealing your Warlock’s Curse damage with the Vicious Rod
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thiotes
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May 11, 2013 5:01 PM PDT
Lion's Den Monk At-will power has following line:Until the start of your next turn, once per turn as a free action, you can deal damage equal to your Constitution modifier to any enemy that enters a square adjacent to you.Does this count for forced m
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Undrhil
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May 11, 2013 5:31 PM PDT
Since this is not an opportunity attack, forced movement triggers this damage just fine, as long as the forced movement moves them into a square adjacent to you and you haven't dealt this damage already this turn.If the enemy is entering a square adj
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Plaguescarred
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May 11, 2013 8:02 PM PDT
1) Yes ''enter a square'' include unwilling movement such as forced movement unless noted otherwise.2) Yes it triggers whenever an enemy enters a square adjacent to you this regardless if he was already adjacent.RC 200 Enter a Square: Move into a squ
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ThatWasTotallyNinja
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May 11, 2013 8:02 PM PDT
Is it possible to use the Sword of Assault AP feature to charge, and then follow it up with your normal standard action?I would think no; you can only specifically use the extra AP action after charging. Otherwise you'd be able to AP Charge, then tak
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Plaguescarred
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May 11, 2013 8:09 PM PDT
Assaulting Charge doesn't specifically let you use standard actions after a Charge, so Charge's No Further Actions limitation still apply.
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Alcestis
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May 13, 2013 12:17 AM PDT
You do realize how ridiculous that argument is when you replace Monk Unarmed Strike with Spiked Gauntlet, correct?This is the logic being used:"I am wearing two spiked gauntlets on my fists, how many weapons do I have? Two.""I take off the spiked gau
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Mand12
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May 13, 2013 5:53 AM PDT
"clearing" zero squares still moves you one 1 square (i.e. jumping moves you to the square on the other side of the distance you "clear"). PHB p.182: "The creature lands 1 square beyond the squares it clears." "If the creature ends the movement over
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Plaguescarred
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May 13, 2013 1:28 PM PDT
There seems to be an error in the total square moved because the creature in this table doesn't lands 1 square beyond the squares it clears.
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Mand12
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May 13, 2013 1:35 PM PDT
The difference is that "clears zero squares" is a non-jump in the same way that "takes zero damage" is a non-damage.If you roll 9 or lower, you didn't jump.
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mvincent
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May 13, 2013 3:05 PM PDT
But the problem is that the rules text doesn't state this as an exception. What if it was a running long jump?
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LordOfWeasels
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May 13, 2013 4:49 PM PDT
I would instead say "You jumped, and then landed in the very next square. The effect of this is identical to moving without jumping, unless something weird and specific happens *when you jump*."But apart from that, I would agree.
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Mand12
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May 13, 2013 6:01 PM PDT
But the problem is that the rules text doesn't state this as an exception. What if it was a running long jump?[/quote]Yes it does, in the table. We don't have the bizarre text/table priority system that 3e did.
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Plaguescarred
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May 13, 2013 9:18 PM PDT
I find a little ridiculous that you can't jump less than 10 ft in 4E :P Well, since you don't use squares of movement if you didn't move, you can just make Athletics check until you get a result of 10+ since nothing prevent you from Jumping more tha
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mvincent
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May 13, 2013 10:01 PM PDT
But the problem is that the rules text doesn't state this as an exception. What if it was a running long jump?[/quote]Yes it does, in the table.[/quote]I do not believe the jumping table says "If you roll 9 or lower", and I believe running long jumps
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PrimeSonic
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May 14, 2013 4:40 AM PDT
Question regarding the Gelatinous Cube:So while you are inside a gelatinous cube, you are restrained and dazed and are taking ongoing damage.To get out of that is to escape-from-a-grab.The confusing situation came from our Paladin who has the feat th
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thespaceinvader
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May 14, 2013 5:53 AM PDT
He can roll the save. If he succeeds, he removes the daze and restrain and ongoing - however, since he's still inside the gelcube, it comes back immediately, as the save doesn't ALSO remove him from the gelcube's space etc, so the save has no effect
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Mand12
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May 14, 2013 6:12 AM PDT
But the problem is that the rules text doesn't state this as an exception. What if it was a running long jump?[/quote]Yes it does, in the table.[/quote]I do not believe the jumping table says "If you roll 9 or lower", and I believe running long jumps
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Mand12
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May 14, 2013 6:15 AM PDT
It says you can make a Jump check as part of an action that involves moving. It doesn't say you can make as many Jump checks as you want as part of an action that involves moving.And no, there is no mechanism to jump from one square to an adjacent s
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Mand12
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May 14, 2013 6:17 AM PDT
Seconded. Same deal as with that feat and aura effects, and any other position-based effect. You saved, great, but you're still in the effect so it doesn't go away.
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FLAvatar
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May 14, 2013 6:26 AM PDT
Just saving against Dazed doesn't end the Grab any more than saving against Dazed while using Unnatural Vitality ends the Dying condition on Revenants.the effect isn't (grabbed, taking ongoing, and dazed, until escape), it's (grabbed, until escape)+(
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Mand12
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May 14, 2013 6:33 AM PDT
This is incorrect. In cube = dazed.
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RisingZan
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May 14, 2013 8:44 AM PDT
Actually the effect is the first line you give, where all effects apply until escape, although each cube words it slightly differently due to various updates.From Gelatinous Cube: Spoiler:
Show
Until the grab ends, the target takes ongoing 10
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Mand12
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May 14, 2013 8:47 AM PDT
All of which are functionally the same.
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Plaguescarred
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May 14, 2013 11:39 AM PDT
No it doesn't say that, you are the one making it singular by saying ''a jump'' It says;Action: The check is usually part of a move action, but it can be part of any of the creature’s actions that involve the creature moving.It doesn't say you
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Mand12
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May 14, 2013 11:43 AM PDT
Improper 4e rules construction.
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Plaguescarred
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May 14, 2013 11:47 AM PDT
The improper construction is the one you claim the rules to say. Me and RisingZan already told you the rules didn't say you couldn't make more than one check per move action or movement as you claim to.
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Mand12
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May 14, 2013 11:49 AM PDT
This, still this. Do you not understand what I'm saying here, about how this doesn't work?
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da_duke
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May 14, 2013 12:06 PM PDT
Completely agree. My Rogue/Executioner has the At-Will Utility Ghost on the Rooftops and just hops his movement distance everywhere. The rest of the party thinks it's somewhat comical.-Just Say NO to difficult terrain!-
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RisingZan
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May 14, 2013 12:45 PM PDT
Completely agree. My Rogue/Executioner has the At-Will Utility Ghost on the Rooftops and just hops his movement distance everywhere. The rest of the party thinks it's somewhat comical.-Just Say NO to difficult terrain!- [/quote]Well you can always ju
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FLAvatar
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May 14, 2013 12:50 PM PDT
Actually the effect is the first line you give, where all effects apply until escape, although each cube words it slightly differently due to various updates.From Gelatinous Cube: Spoiler:
Show
Until the grab ends, the target takes ongoing 10
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RisingZan
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May 14, 2013 1:09 PM PDT
This, still this. Do you not understand what I'm saying here, about how this doesn't work?[/quote]I understand what your argument , but I believe you're misapplying that maxim in this instance. The argument Plaguescarred and I are making is that Ju
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Mand12
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May 14, 2013 1:17 PM PDT
I completely admit that it is stupid, pointless, completely counterintuitive, and shouldn't be applied by any rational DM to any actual game.None of that is relevant to what the rules actually say. We need to be clear about what they say before we d
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masteraleph
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May 14, 2013 7:12 PM PDT
Sorcerous Blade Channeling + Weapon of Speed's minor action power or Ruthelss Spellfury. Both of the latter allow you to make a ranged basic attack. Can that then be turned into a melee attack, even though they're explicitly ranged? (Note: I'm awa
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Alcestis
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May 14, 2013 8:04 PM PDT
Just because it becomes melee doesn't make it not an RBA. Still an RBA.
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da_duke
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May 15, 2013 6:15 AM PDT
Is there a way for a Sorcerer to use the properties of a dagger when the dagger is used as an implement? For instance, I have a Jagged Dagger that increases the crit range to 19-20. Can that crit range be used on my burst/blast powers?
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Mand12
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May 15, 2013 6:29 AM PDT
There isn't "a way" in the sense of "you do this trick, or take this feat" - it just does. A weapon enchantment has to actually say things like "weapon attack" in order to not work. Jagged implement works fine, no adjustment required. Do what the
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CUBPHILDND
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May 15, 2013 5:19 PM PDT
I have two questions about Knightly Intercession (paladin level 9 daily attack power). I can choose not to subject the target to divine sanction even if I hit it with the attack, right? Suppose the triggering event is an enemy hitting with a ranged a
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Plaguescarred
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May 15, 2013 5:54 PM PDT
1. No, the target is subject to your divine sanction even if you don't want to.2. No because the triggering enemy wasn't adjacent to you when it used the ranged power.
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CUBPHILDND
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May 15, 2013 6:01 PM PDT
Okay, then. Follow up to #1: can I choose not to make the attack? Alternatively, can I choose to release the mark after it's applied?
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Plaguescarred
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May 15, 2013 6:34 PM PDT
The Effect line doesn't seem to give a choice if you can make the attack or not.You cannot released a mark unless noted otherwise. It last until it ends or its superceded.
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CUBPHILDND
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May 15, 2013 6:42 PM PDT
Bummer, okay then. Thanks!
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Plaguescarred
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May 15, 2013 6:52 PM PDT
Check with your DM. He may say ypu don't have to attack it if you don't want to, similar to how PHB2 FAQ explain how you don't have to attack an ally with Chaos Bolt. While not identical case, they are pretty similar in that way they tells you to ''m
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CUBPHILDND
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May 15, 2013 6:59 PM PDT
Right, thanks. This is for a hybrid cavalier where marks would mess up his defender aura, which is superior. I'll probably go with a safer, legal-by-RAW power for LFR and ask my DM for the home game.
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Engie
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May 15, 2013 8:09 PM PDT
Not sure if this has been asked yet, couldn't find it in my quick search. Just wondering, if a player has an ability (such as the monk's Dragon Tail) which knocks a target prone, does that always knock the target prone on a hit? Even for large or lar
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Plaguescarred
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May 15, 2013 8:38 PM PDT
Yes, an effect always know prone regardless of size unless it specifically mention it only work against creature of a some size only (ex. Serpent Dance Strine, Shadow Sever etc...)
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Azedenkae
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May 16, 2013 12:11 AM PDT
Say a player's char is 2 squares from a door diagonally. S/he decides to move the char 6 squares directly through the door and into the room, only to find an enemy inside. Can the player 'decide' to move the char just three squares to the door, inste
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Alcestis
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May 16, 2013 12:20 AM PDT
Movement is resolved square-by-square.
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Plaguescarred
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May 16, 2013 12:22 AM PDT
Yes. Movement is done square-by-square by 5 feet increment. If after moving two squares into the doorway, the character see enemies inside the room, it can use the remainder of his or her movements to keeping going into the room or move back anywhere
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peteincary
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May 16, 2013 3:54 AM PDT
Can a player do a charge attack against a creature that it cannot see? ie the enemy has become Invisible and successfully Hidden, and the player is guessing the square the enemy is in?
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Azedenkae
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May 16, 2013 5:39 AM PDT
Thanks Alcestis and Plaguescarred. :) That was easy. :D
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thespaceinvader
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May 16, 2013 5:43 AM PDT
Yes, they can. If the target is Hidden, they must guess which square it is in.
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peteincary
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May 16, 2013 7:47 AM PDT
Can a player do a charge attack against an open square where they think an enemy might be hiding? (Even if there is no real reason to think there is actually an enemy in that square?)* As for why he might want to attempt this charge attack: He is sta
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thespaceinvader
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May 16, 2013 7:50 AM PDT
Unless he has a good reason to believe that there is an enemy there (he saw something hide, for isntance) I'd call bag of rats myself.
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Mand12
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May 16, 2013 7:53 AM PDT
On reading the charge rules, I'm not convinced you can charge a hidden target.
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TunicaDartos
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May 16, 2013 10:39 AM PDT
Ok guys. I have something of a complex question, that I am sure has a simple answer. It's about damage rolls in regards to skills with 2(w) or higher. My friends and I are new to 4E rules, and most of us are new to D&D period. As such, to simplify, w
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Mand12
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May 16, 2013 10:44 AM PDT
It doesn't matter how many dice you roll, the attack is still one damage roll. Whether it's 1[W] or 7[W], whether [W] itself is 1d12 or 2d6, you add modifiers to the damage roll once. In your case, "3[W]+Str" on the power, used with a Maul, will be
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CUBPHILDND
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May 16, 2013 10:45 AM PDT
Standard rules of algebra still apply, including PEMDAS. '3[W] + STR modifier' means '(3[W]) + STR modifier', not '3([W] + STR modifier)'.
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TunicaDartos
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May 16, 2013 10:49 AM PDT
Ok, so the +strength modifier listed in the skill description does not stack on any strength modifier inherent in a normal swing? What if, as in the case of Bolstering Smite it's a 1[W]+Charisma modifier. So does that mean it'd be a roll of 2d6+3?
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TunicaDartos
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May 16, 2013 10:51 AM PDT
I suppose +2 for the maul+2, making it 2d6+5?
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MalakLightfoot
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May 16, 2013 10:56 AM PDT
If you admit that the first sounds "bonkers," why do you think the second is wrong?The second, bolded part, is correct. (W) only refers to the weapons actual damage dice. A maul is 2d6, so 3(W) is 6d6. The strength and enchantment bonus only apply on
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Mand12
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May 16, 2013 10:59 AM PDT
There is no modifier "inherent" in a normal swing. A "normal swing" in 4e is actually a power in itself: Melee Basic Attack. It deals 1[W]+Str mod. There isn't an automatic modifier that you add to all weapon attacks like there was in prior editi
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MalakLightfoot
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May 16, 2013 11:01 AM PDT
No, your Charisma Mod is only +1. The half level bonus never applies to damage. Your damage with Bolstering Smite is 2d6+3, and your to hit is only +5 (as opposed to the +10 to hit with Strength based powers).
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Mand12
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May 16, 2013 11:03 AM PDT
Actually it's +7 to hit with Bolstering Strike. Half level is applied to the attack roll.
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TunicaDartos
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May 16, 2013 11:05 AM PDT
Wishful thinking? lol.::EDIT:: nevermind, you answered before I finished typing. :)
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Mand12
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May 16, 2013 11:06 AM PDT
You're using Cha instead of Str. I read your post before you edited it out, it was a valid question.
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TunicaDartos
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May 16, 2013 11:08 AM PDT
Thanks so much guys. My party has a lot to discuss on Monday.
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MalakLightfoot
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May 16, 2013 11:18 AM PDT
Actually it's +7 to hit with Bolstering Strike. Half level is applied to the attack roll.[/quote]You're right. I forgot to add the proficiency bonus when i was adding it up.
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RisingZan
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May 16, 2013 1:00 PM PDT
I'll just +1 this for making sure to read your powers specifically for which ability modifiers apply to damage. Different powers for the same class can vary greatly. For example, the Ranger's Twin Strike power uses Strength or Dex on the attack roll
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thespaceinvader
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May 17, 2013 12:47 AM PDT
Remember: the rules do WHAT they say, and ONLY what they say. Your weapon power says you use CHA for attack and damage? DO that, and ONLY that. Don't assume anything.
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TunicaDartos
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May 17, 2013 6:43 AM PDT
Guys, thanks again so much for your help thus far, and please excuse my continued ignorance here. Unless I'm just blind, while reading the leveling up and ability scores sections of the player's handbook, I haven't found any distinction between the a
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Mand12
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May 17, 2013 6:53 AM PDT
The ability mod is (score-10)/2, round down. Nothing else, ever.The half-level bonus is something that gets added to d20 rolls and defenses (AC/Fort/Ref/Will). They're not the same thing. The default character sheet and some of the language in the
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MalakLightfoot
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May 17, 2013 6:55 AM PDT
Guys, thanks again so much for your help thus far, and please excuse my continued ignorance here. Unless I'm just blind, while reading the leveling up and ability scores sections of the player's handbook, I haven't found any distinction between the a
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TunicaDartos
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May 17, 2013 6:57 AM PDT
Hahaha, I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who finds some of the new rules a bit ambiguous. Thanks for the info! Now to delve back into the PHB.
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RaveNinja
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May 17, 2013 5:54 PM PDT
How conspicuous are bard rituals? Do they simply require a tune to be played, or is it more obvious that there is magic involved? For example, if a bard were pretending to be part of a royal music court, could he perform the Lullaby ritual without dr
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Mand12
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May 17, 2013 6:16 PM PDT
Rituals don't have a rigorously-defined set of rules associated with them to this level of detail. Basically, up to the DM.
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spunxow
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May 18, 2013 9:57 AM PDT
Seems silly, but I have to ask: if you use Elven Accuracy with a power that says "Make two attack rolls, take the higher result", do you get to re-roll both dice or just one?
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Undrhil
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May 18, 2013 10:03 AM PDT
Basically, you make your two attack rolls, decide which one is the higher result, then trigger Elven Accuracy, which would let you re-roll the "higher result" die from the two die rolls you made previously.
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RisingZan
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May 18, 2013 10:04 AM PDT
Elven accuracy says The power let you make two attack rolls, so Elven Accuracy lets you reroll 1 of the two attack rolls you disliked the result of and reroll that one attack roll.So for example, an Elven Avenger Ranger that gets to make two attack r
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ThatWasTotallyNinja
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May 18, 2013 10:16 AM PDT
Well, no, not exactly. OoE specifically says that if you get to reroll, you reroll both dice. But for other properties like that, then yeah.
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RisingZan
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May 18, 2013 11:41 AM PDT
Well, no, not exactly. OoE specifically says that if you get to reroll, you reroll both dice. But for other properties like that, then yeah.[/quote]ah, you're right, I recalled Oath as being a way to get double rolls but forgot it had the special rul
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Darruesh
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May 19, 2013 2:39 PM PDT
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FoxFireInferno
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May 19, 2013 2:46 PM PDT
The power is used as an immediate action (can't recall interrupt or reaction), and you only get one of those a round.
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RndmRlln
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May 19, 2013 5:45 PM PDT
This should be an easy question here. Another player and myself are in a disagreement on the damage a bladespell does.When dealing damage with a bladesinger's bladespell, do you use the total of the Dex mod and 1/2 level (if high enough level to chan
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CUBPHILDND
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May 19, 2013 6:03 PM PDT
Just flat Dex mod, which is exactly what it says.
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RisingZan
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May 19, 2013 8:19 PM PDT
More to the point, the only die rolls that your 1/2 level modifier applies to are d20 rolls, not including saving throws. So add 1/2 level to: Attack Rolls Skill Checks Ability Checks Initiative Checkand that's it ; so make sure he isn't adding 1/2
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RisingZan
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May 19, 2013 8:29 PM PDT
The power is used as an immediate action (can't recall interrupt or reaction), and you only get one of those a round.[/quote]At Level 21 you can take the feat Rapid Aegis Reaction (from Dungeon Magazine issue 387, also visible on the online compedium
