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2 years ago ::
Jun 06, 2011 - 8:10PM
#201
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Who's turn is it when your readied action is triggered? I'm pretty sure (and would rule) it is the the creature that triggered the Readied Action's turn, but could be contentious because of the movement in the initiative order. Biggest thing here is that you wouldn't be able to take immediate reactions on your own turn.
The thought occured to me because of the once per turn striker features. If it's the triggering creatures turn a rogue could use it as a poor mans Slaying Action (able to use Sneak Attack again on a Action Point). An example, maybe not the best, could be:
Move into a flanking position
Attack with Dazing Strike
Pretty sure the monster will use his one action to attack, he
Burns an action point to ready an action, piercing strike,
With the trigger, The monster attacks
Readying an action (i.e. choosing a trigger and an action) consumes a Standard action on your turn. When triggered, a readied action is an Immediate Reaction.
As you point out, Immediate Reactions cannot happen on your turn. When triggered, a readied action happens on the turn of whatever triggered it. Your scenario of a rogue readying to get another sneak attack works just fine.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2011 - 12:53PM
#202
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2003
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It seems when you Ready an action using an AP, you can Ready yourself right out of a whole round of actions. The FAQ comes close to talking about this, but focuses on the triggers more than the timing. Did we do this correctly. or miss something easy (rather than bog down D&D night by looking thru rulebooks rather than actually playing  ) so what happened is: Round 1 20 PLAYER1 - does stuff, gets proned 15 PLAYER2 - does stuff, AP to Ready (trigger: PLAYER1 stands) Round 2 20 PLAYER1 - Stands - PLAYER2 Readied Action, PLAYER2 initiative reset to 20 (before P1) - 20 PLAYER1 - does rest of stuff Round 3 20.1 PLAYER2 - does stuff 20 PLAYER1 does stuff The readied action effectively costs PLAYER2 an entire round of actions. The rule is pretty clear, "Reset Initiative: After you resolve your readied action, move your place in the initiative order to directly before the creature or the event that triggered your readied action." the question is, should PLAYER2 take their normal turn immediately after PLAYER1 finishes? Or is the moral of the story, "don't ready an action with a trigger that elevates you in the initiative order, because you will basically be out your next turn?" Now readying for a lower initiative event: Round 1 20 PLAYER1 - does stuff 15 PLAYER2 - does stuff, falls prone Round 2 20 PLAYER1 - does stuff, AP > Ready(trigger: P2 stands) 15 PLAYER2 - stands - Readied Action - PLAYER1 init goes to 16 15 PLAYER2 - does rest of stuff Round 3 16 PLAYER1 - does stuff 15 PLAYER2 - does stuff notice that the second example gives the readying player 3 full rounds of actions plus their AP, while the first example only gives the readying player 2 rounds of actions plus the AP. I think we did it right, and am even pleased with the way it all worked out (turned what would have been a fairly impotent use of a power into a very timely one that repositioned us for maximum offense while dispersing us enough to make us bad targets for some nasty, nasty burst powers) but - Holy Refocusing, Batman! - I hate to think that moving up the initiative ladder is supposed to cost you a whole turn like that.
INSIDE SCOOP GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard
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2 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2011 - 2:14PM
#203
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Readying an Action allows you to wait for a more advantageous time to take your action at the risk of that more advantageous time never occuring.
The LFR group I play with had a discussion about this yesterday. The Ready and Delay rules for 4e are *not* the same as they were for 3.x. You cannot "delay to the top of the round." You can delay "to the bottom of the round" since you can just come out of delay after the last person in initiative goes, but you cannot use that to move your initiative to the first one in the combat. The only way to do that is to ready an action for the first person in combat to take some action. This will move your initiative to right before their initiative.
Doing that stinks of cheese to me, though.
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2 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2011 - 2:50PM
#204
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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The Ready and Delay rules for 4e are *not* the same as they were for 3.x. You cannot "delay to the top of the round." You can delay "to the bottom of the round"
Rounds are cyclic... there is no difference between "top" and "bottom" of the round. This was stated even in 3.5:
"For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round."
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2 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2011 - 3:56PM
#205
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It seems when you Ready an action using an AP, you can Ready yourself right out of a whole round of actions.
[...]
I hate to think that moving up the initiative ladder is supposed to cost you a whole turn like that.
You didn't "move up the initiative ladder", you "took a Standard Action before you would normally have been able to take a Standard Action", which happened to delay your turn for that round into "the next round".
There's no such thing as "top" or "bottom" after the first round.
What you've missed is that in round 4, the Readying player acts before he should. And again, before he should in round 5. And again, forever.
All of this is normal and expected.
(And your second example's subsequent turns aren't much delayed, because he didn't wait long to use his Readied Action. The longer you wait, the further you're delayed to act again - but the difference is only the loss of the time you delayed, no matter how long you delayed, because of the cyclical nature of rounds. The worst case, of course, is that you wait a full round, and your turn comes around as scheduled, causing you to lose the Readied action and actually be an action behind, rather than having the full complement of normal actions happening slightly late for one round)
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2 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2011 - 5:05PM
#206
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2003
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Well, at least we did it correctly.
There was kind of a "bottom" of the round though, an environmental effect/hazard that just plain went last. I didn't think it germaine to the examples, but it was the thing counting out the beat that made it seem like rounds were skipping over the readying player. At the end of Round #2, the hazard had fired twice, and the player had only taken 1 round + his AP which is when we noticed that all the monsters had also gone twice to his once. Considering his action pushed into round 3 makes it much clearer, but still hurts my head a little.
Not gonna lie - it still feels weird and wrong, but I can live with it being clearly my problem to get over it and not a rules issue.
INSIDE SCOOP GAMERS: In the new version of D&D, it will no longer be "Edition Wars." It will be "Edition Lair Assault." - dungeonbastard
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2 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2011 - 5:50PM
#207
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Well, at least we did it correctly.
There was kind of a "bottom" of the round though, an environmental effect/hazard that just plain went last. I didn't think it germaine to the examples, but it was the thing counting out the beat that made it seem like rounds were skipping over the readying player. At the end of Round #2, the hazard had fired twice, and the player had only taken 1 round + his AP which is when we noticed that all the monsters had also gone twice to his once. Considering his action pushed into round 3 makes it much clearer, but still hurts my head a little.
Not gonna lie - it still feels weird and wrong, but I can live with it being clearly my problem to get over it and not a rules issue.
It is a little odd to consider the round as a cycle. The combat manager app I like most, "DnD4CM", displays the round in what I find is a very useful way: The current actor is ALWAYS at the top. When his turn is done and you click "next", he cycles to the bottom and the next action is ready.
(And "always goes last" is a little misleading - it's more "goes at 0" or "goes at -10" or "goes at -20,000", because it doesn't wait for everyone to go, it simply goes after everyone else moves in the normal initiative order - and if your Ready or delay takes you past the last normal actor, it can then take you past the environmental actor and towards the "first" actor again.)
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2 years ago ::
Aug 10, 2011 - 3:02PM
#208
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2009
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Can you ready and action to shift one square when an enemy tries to make an attack against you? And if so, would this make an enemy lose his attack on a charge?
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2 years ago ::
Aug 10, 2011 - 3:11PM
#209
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Can you ready and action to shift one square when an enemy tries to make an attack against you? And if so, would this make an enemy lose his attack on a charge?
Readied actions fire as an Immediate Reaction to the trigger you set, so you completely resolve the triggering action/event before the readied action can be used. Thus, triggering on "enemy attacks" would not invalidate the attack (as you would first fully resolve the triggering attack, and then perform your readied action).
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2 years ago ::
Aug 10, 2011 - 3:58PM
#210
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2001
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In the case of a charge, you could have readied an action for the enemy moving adjacent- but unless you move far enough that the enemy doesn't have enough squares to follow you, he'll still get his charge attack. For instance, if an enemy has a speed 6 and moves 5 square to get adjacent to you, having a readied action to shift back one square won't stop him from using his last square of movement to move adjacent again before his attack. If you moved back two or more squares, he'd still get one square of movement, but he wouldn't be able to take his charge attack unless he had enough reach to reach you.
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