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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 12:37AM
#221
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I looked through this thread and couldn't quite find this particular example, if its there, please excuse me but its something that I just need clarification for before I attempt to use it and look silly.
As a rogue, you only get your sneak attack dice once per "Turn" (barring the use of a feat regaining it on AP use), so I was mulling about the idea of:
1. Using a minor action attack, such as Tumbling strike or Low slash and use my sneak attack dice on hit
2. Using a standard action to ready a standard action attack, an at-will or encounter attack on the trigger of "The person whos turn it is after me makes an action"
3. My attack triggers, providing the action the previous person made does not move me out of attack range or doesn't forgo his turn entirely, and since it is not the same turn it gives me use of my sneak attack dice once again
4. My place in the initiative doesn't change, since I reset to go before the person who goes after me, placing me right where I was.
My main curiosities lie in if my trigger is valid. Everything else seems logical but i've been wrong before. Just wanna make sure before everyone at the table turns to look at me and thinks im crazy
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 1:00AM
#222
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I looked through this thread and couldn't quite find this particular example, if its there, please excuse me but its something that I just need clarification for before I attempt to use it and look silly.
As a rogue, you only get your sneak attack dice once per "Turn" (barring the use of a feat regaining it on AP use), so I was mulling about the idea of:
1. Using a minor action attack, such as Tumbling strike or Low slash and use my sneak attack dice on hit
2. Using a standard action to ready a standard action attack, an at-will or encounter attack on the trigger of "The person whos turn it is after me makes an action"
3. My attack triggers, providing the action the previous person made does not move me out of attack range or doesn't forgo his turn entirely, and since it is not the same turn it gives me use of my sneak attack dice once again
4. My place in the initiative doesn't change, since I reset to go before the person who goes after me, placing me right where I was.
My main curiosities lie in if my trigger is valid. Everything else seems logical but i've been wrong before. Just wanna make sure before everyone at the table turns to look at me and thinks im crazy
Easier trigger: "I Speak a sentence." Talking is a free action. No rules ambiguity.
That said: Do. Not. Do. This. The Simple Answer sticky has a list in the first few posts of common questions, this one is in there. You'll find some links to threads discussing how the DM benefits enormously more from ready action abuse. To the point where it becomes an escalating ready action war which the DM will always win.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 1:05AM
#223
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Wow, if it was a snake it would have bit me. My fault for looking on forums at 1am.
Thank you for the advice, I suppose Ill forgo doing this to keep the group happy at the cost of my 5d8 extra...
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 1:07AM
#224
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I don't understand why people are so scared of this tactic. The most he could do it is, what? Four times in an encounter? That would be three minor action encounter powers and *maybe* recharge one of those with a power jewel. Maybe reclaim one with a Salve of Power.
The rest of the time, he will be doing his normal Standard action attacks.
I say let him get those three off-turn SAs per encounter. He probably could have gotten them with OAs anyway, so it's not hurting anything.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 1:25AM
#225
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I'd recommend you take a peek at the "Rogue out of turn sneak attack question" thread that I found after looking where Alcestis kindly directed me. I wont continue the argument here, since its listed on THAT thread and not what this one is about, but as I read it, I get the feeling that basically:
"Its perfectly legal, but dont abuse it, because the DM will abuse it even more to keep you in line"
so sure, you can do it, and heck you could probably get people to say "wow, nice job" the first time. But do it every fight, and the DM is going to adjust tactics to make sure performing that combo is unfavorable to you, especially since its technically as easy as what was stated. Trigger = "I laugh maniacally" which can be done as a free action immediately at the end of your turn
and Ill leave this forum for questions about the readying an action :3
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 5:16AM
#226
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Do monster's know when a player readies an action, and does the DM need to announce that his monsters are readying their actions, detailing all the information about it?
Clearly the DM needs to know but he can act as if the enemies don't.
But if I announce "Monster X does this, with this trigger, and this target", clearly they'll never do it?
Isn't that a good thing? You can prevent your players from doing a thing, simply by spending one creature's Standard on it?
I find it simplest to just make it clear who is Readying, for what, when. I make an exception for Hidden monsters. And then, both I *and* the players can play as if they know who's Readied, for what, when.
Narratively, we just decide that "He winds up and prepares to smack someone who comes into reach!" is obviously "Ready an Attack for when a creature comes into range"
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 9:27AM
#227
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2012
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Ok. But would I announce monster x has readied an attack for when billy comes within striking range of monster x?
Do I really need to announce the trigger and target?
And is "within range" a legal trigger?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 1:14PM
#228
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Ok. But would I announce monster x has readied an attack for when billy comes within striking range of monster x? Do I really need to announce the trigger and target?
There is no "have to". There is only "you should apply the same rules to your NPCs as you apply to the PCs, and transparency is always good because it makes the game smoother".
And is "within range" a legal trigger?
Do you want it to be?
It certainly meets the requirements for Readied actions. Even "I use Tide Of Iron on any enemy who gets into my reach!" is a perfectly good declaration - defined action, defined trigger, looks good.
There's a DM judgement call involved, here. But in general, it's better to err on the side of flexibility, and as long as the NPCs and the PCs use the same rules, you're good.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 1:20PM
#229
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2012
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Ok.
Cool.
Could players talking trigger an attack?
The way I see it, there's some pretty silly triggers, but as long as they're legal attacks / actions, a trigger can be anything?
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1 year ago ::
Mar 16, 2012 - 1:28PM
#230
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Ok.
Cool.
Could players talking trigger an attack?
The way I see it, there's some pretty silly triggers, but as long as they're legal attacks / actions, a trigger can be anything?
A legal trigger can be any circumstance in the game, limited only by how much the DM wants to limit you.
Jumping back a few pages in this very thread, I'm going to quote myself:
" if you restrict it purely to 'Actions' in the game mechanic sense, you're left with a bunch of nonsense cases that SHOULD be legal but aren't, or else you're left with people saying 'Okay, I set up my Reaction to this Free Action that I'm going to do. When I yell 'HOODY HOO', I will charge him! I end my turn, I roll my save.... 16! HOODY HOO!'
As far as allowing Ready triggers like 'If I Save against this condition' - again, it's not a big deal as long as both NPCs and PCs work on the same rules."
and
"My theory is this:
1) you can trigger off 'an action or event'
2) restricting 1 to 'non-Free Actions' in the mechanical sense results in nonsense badness in several obvious cases
3) restricting 1 to 'Actions' if you allow 'Free Actions' to count results in EFFECTIVELY being able to trigger any Readied action any time you want.
4) all rules that apply to PCs should apply equally to NPCs."
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