Each of the techniques in a full discipline power requires an action to use. So you will need to choose which part of the full discipline power you are readying. Remember that you don't have to use both parts of the full discipline in a round, and that you can use each portion as many times as you have actions to spend only if the power is an at-will. So if it is an encounter power, and you want to ready the movement portion, you will need to not use the movement portion on your turn.
If I move then ready "Open the Gates of Battle" I still have a standard action left. When my trigger goes off do I choose if I want to use the attack action (since I have the standard action left) or the move action (also because I have a standard that can be used for it)?
Readying an action is not the same as putting a standard action into storage to be used later. You choose a specific target, a specific action, and a triggering condition *when you ready the action*. You don't get to change the action later.
Also, it is illegal to use either part of a full discipline encounter power twice in one round, as per the full-discipline rules. If you use the move portion, you can only ready the attack technique, and vice versa.
Why would there need to be? It's covered under the existing rules.
Each of the techniques in a full discipline power requires an action to use. So you will need to choose which part of the full discipline power you are readying. Remember that you don't have to use both parts of the full discipline in a round, and
Since the act of readying it is a standard action, you'll need to use an action point to ready most attacks. I see a lot of examples where people use a readied action to attack, but this isn't the most usual use for Ready an Action in our game because of the RAW.
Since the act of readying it is a standard action, you'll need to use an action point to ready most attacks. I see a lot of examples where people use a readied action to attack, but this isn't the most usual use for Ready an Action in our game beca
Since the act of readying it is a standard action, you'll need to use an action point to ready most attacks. I see a lot of examples where people use a readied action to attack, but this isn't the most usual use for Ready an Action in our game because of the RAW.
Huh?
Attacks do not need an action point to ready an action for them unless you are trying to attack AND ready an action.
Huh?Attacks do not need an action point to ready an action for them unless you are trying to attack AND ready an action.
Since the act of readying it is a standard action, you'll need to use an action point to ready most attacks. I see a lot of examples where people use a readied action to attack, but this isn't the most usual use for Ready an Action in our game because of the RAW.
Huh?
Attacks do not need an action point to ready an action for them unless you are trying to attack AND ready an action.
That's my point. Thanks for wording it a bit better. I meant to say that if you are going to ready an attack, you'll need an action point ready to actually make the attack if the attack uses a standard action since you will have already used the standard action to READY the action.
How's that? LOL
Huh?Attacks do not need an action point to ready an action for them unless you are trying to attack AND ready an action.That's my point. Thanks for wording it a bit better. I meant to say that if you are going to ready an attack, you'll need an a
Since the act of readying it is a standard action, you'll need to use an action point to ready most attacks. I see a lot of examples where people use a readied action to attack, but this isn't the most usual use for Ready an Action in our game because of the RAW.
Huh?
Attacks do not need an action point to ready an action for them unless you are trying to attack AND ready an action.
That's my point. Thanks for wording it a bit better. I meant to say that if you are going to ready an attack, you'll need an action point ready to actually make the attack if the attack uses a standard action since you will have already used the standard action to READY the action.
How's that? LOL
That's incorrect.
Choose Action to Ready: Choose the specific action you are readying (what attack you plan to use, for example) as well as your intended target. You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a minor action. Whichever action you choose, the act of readying it is a standard action.
So you see, you use a Standard Action to Ready an Action and then when the trigger happens, you do the Standard, move or Minor Action which you have ready to go.
No action point required.
Huh?Attacks do not need an action point to ready an action for them unless you are trying to attack AND ready an action.That's my point. Thanks for wording it a bit better. I meant to say that if you are going to ready an attack, you'll need an a
Got it, and thanks for the clarification. These new 4th edition rules don't leave a lot for misunderstanding, yet I still end up misunderstanding!
As a DM from the late 70's through today, I'm still looking for help with rules even though we have a bit of experience playing. We'll play a certain way for a year and then BAM, find out we were wrong.
Got it, and thanks for the clarification. These new 4th edition rules don't leave a lot for misunderstanding, yet I still end up misunderstanding! As a DM from the late 70's through today, I'm still looking for help with rules even though we have
That's my point. Thanks for wording it a bit better. I meant to say that if you are going to ready an attack, you'll need an action point ready to actually make the attack if the attack uses a standard action since you will have already used the standard action to READY the action.
How's that?
Incorrect?
"Ready" costs a Standard. Taking a Readied action is an IMMEDIATE, nothing else.
Incorrect?"Ready" costs a Standard. Taking a Readied action is an IMMEDIATE, nothing else.
That's my point. Thanks for wording it a bit better. I meant to say that if you are going to ready an attack, you'll need an action point ready to actually make the attack if the attack uses a standard action since you will have already used the standard action to READY the action.
How's that?
Incorrect?
"Ready" costs a Standard. Taking a Readied action is an IMMEDIATE, nothing else.
Right, read my above post thanking Artoomis. I thank you as well.
Incorrect?"Ready" costs a Standard. Taking a Readied action is an IMMEDIATE, nothing else.Right, read my above post thanking Artoomis. I thank you as well.
If I ready an action to attack whoever moves adjacent to me, and an enemy moves around me, causing an opportunity attack, can I make both the readied attack and opportunity attack? It seems completely within the rules, but... that seems like a lot of potential damage out of your turn.
If I ready an action to attack whoever moves adjacent to me, and an enemy moves around me, causing an opportunity attack, can I make both the readied attack and opportunity attack? It seems completely within the rules, but... that seems like a lot of
If I ready an action to attack whoever moves adjacent to me, and an enemy moves around me, causing an opportunity attack, can I make both the readied attack and opportunity attack? It seems completely within the rules, but... that seems like a lot of potential damage out of your turn.
Yep, totally possible. You spend your Immediate action to use the readied action, and spend your Opportunity action to take the opportunity attack.
Yep, totally possible. You spend your Immediate action to use the readied action, and spend your Opportunity action to take the opportunity attack.
If I ready an action to attack whoever moves adjacent to me, and an enemy moves around me, causing an opportunity attack, can I make both the readied attack and opportunity attack? It seems completely within the rules, but... that seems like a lot of potential damage out of your turn.
Defenders have tricks to pull this off constantly (Mark Enforcement+OA). A Ranger can use Snarling Wolf Stance, get attacked, use Disruptive Strike, and get two attacks the same way.
If it seems like a lot then you are probably used to parties who don't do a ton of out of turn attacks, i.e., your DM doesn't provoke OAs, Rangers don't take/forget to use Disruptive Strike, Bards don't take/don't use Rhythm of the Blood Seeking Blade, DM respects Marks, etc., there are many, many reasons and group comps where you just wouldn't see out of turn attacks. It isn't any more or less powerful then other combinations, inherently.
Defenders have tricks to pull this off constantly (Mark Enforcement+OA). A Ranger can use Snarling Wolf Stance, get attacked, use Disruptive Strike, and get two attacks the same way. If it seems like a lot then you are probably used to parties who do
Can I trigger readied actions off of free actions? Wouldn't that mean I could trigger my own readied actions, since I can take free actions when it isn't my turn?
*sigh* Technically, this is legal. It is probably also a place where DM discretion needs to be exercised.
In light of a recent discussion on this, I would like to address the nature of Free Actions, reposted in part here:
How fine is the control over timing a Free Action? How precise is the control, and how thinly can you slice actions?
Can you time your Free Action: ...between multi-attacks? ...between the resolution of the attack rolls of a burst? ...after an attack roll but before the damage roll? ...after a creature's last action, but before the turn ends? ...before a creature's first action, but after the turn starts? ...in the middle of someone else's Free Action? ...before someone's immediate interrupt? ...after someone takes an immediate interrupt, before the triggering action? ...before an immediate reaction, after the triggering action? ...before an immediate reaction, after the triggering action, in response to the immediate reaction? ...after an action triggers an OA, before the opportunity action?
We know that "On your turn, you take actions: a standard action, a move action, a minor action, and any number of free actions, in any order you wish." How freely can you use your Free Action? "You can take as many free actions as you want during your or another combatant’s turn." "You can take any number of free actions on other combatants’ turns." The only thing the rules permit is that you can take free actions "during a turn" or "on a turn". On your turn you take them in any order you wish. However, it looks like you do not determine when during another combatant's turn.
If you take a Free Action when it's not your turn, when does it occur? As far as I can tell, the rules don't say. It's up to the DM. All you are given is that you can take Free Actions during/on their turn. (However, there are obviously powers/features with Free Actions that are specifically timed. Specific supersedes General, of course.)
In light of a recent discussion on this, I would like to address the nature of Free Actions, reposted in part here:How fine is the control over timing a Free Action? How precise is the control, and how thinly can you slice actions?Can you time your
Given the sheer amount of debate over the timing of free actions, I don't see that this is something we can expect to resolve definitiely. Perhaps I should summarize the debate in that bullet point, though. Frankly, the thought of doing so made me so weary I just put in a sigh and called it a day.
Given the sheer amount of debate over the timing of free actions, I don't see that this is something we can expect to resolve definitiely. Perhaps I should summarize the debate in that bullet point, though. Frankly, the thought of doing so made m
Given the sheer amount of debate over the timing of free actions, I don't see that this is something we can expect to resolve definitiely. Perhaps I should summarize the debate in that bullet point, though. Frankly, the thought of doing so made me so weary I just put in a sigh and called it a day.
What's the debate? The rules say "during" or "on" another's turn. That's pretty much the only General rule that exists, while there are a lot of Specific ones from features and powers.
"When during or on another's turn does my Free Action take place?" "Either when the power/feature tells you. If it does not, then the rules don't say. Ask your DM."
Edit: By which I mean, the rules are clear - in that they don't address it. Unless there's something other than the Combat Sequence section and Free Action section which addresses it.
What's the debate?The rules say "during" or "on" another's turn. That's pretty much the only General rule that exists, while there are a lot of Specific ones from features and powers."When during or on another's turn does my Free Action take place?"
The debate over how the timing of free actions does or should work.
Let me rephrase the question. What are the sides of the debate?
It seems to me the general Free Action rules simply don't cover it - leaving it up to the DM.
Or are you talking about things like "Charge as a Free Action" and specific features/powers?
Let me rephrase the question. What are the sides of the debate?It seems to me the general Free Action rules simply don't cover it - leaving it up to the DM.Or are you talking about things like "Charge as a Free Action" and specific features/powers?
On your turn you take them in any order you wish. However, it looks like you do not determine when during another combatant's turn.
If you take a Free Action when it's not your turn, when does it occur? As far as I can tell, the rules don't say. It's up to the DM. All you are given is that you can take Free Actions during/on their turn. (However, there are obviously powers/features with Free Actions that are specifically timed. Specific supersedes General, of course.)
He's arguing that since the bit about "your turn" says you can take Free Actions, and you can take your actions in any order, and the bit about "other people's turns" says you can take Free Actions but NOT anything about "in any order", that your Free Actions both: A) can't happen between turns, if there is something happening when it's not a combatant's turn (a timed event that isn't a "hazard", etc) and B) happen only when the person whose turn it is SAYS they happen.
He's arguing that since the bit about "your turn" says you can take Free Actions, and you can take your actions in any order, and the bit about "other people's turns" says you can take Free Actions but NOT anything about "in any order", that your Fre
A) can't happen between turns, if there is something happening when it's not a combatant's turn (a timed event that isn't a "hazard", etc) and B) happen only when the person whose turn it is SAYS they happen.
A, yes. The rules explicitly say you take a free action: 1) On your turn as one of your actions, in any order (with the other actions). 2) On/during another person's turn. It does not say you can take it any other time, so you can't. (Specific supersedes general, of course.)
B, no. That is not what I am saying. Within a turn, there is a sequence of actions that occur - as in A, the character whose turn it is orders his actions. When we say "during his turn" or "on his turn" it is this sequence of actions we refer to.
The rules do not provide the another character with the means to insert his Free Action into the sequence wherever he likes - nor does it provide the owner of the turn a means to insert his Free Action where she likes. Since it is vague, it is up to the DM to arbitrate.
If we consider what occurs during a turn, no time passes between "End of his Turn", "Start of her Turn", "During her Turn", and "End of her Turn". During her turn consists of the order of actions in which she takes. Other people's Free Actions during her turn have no defined interaction with this. So again - it is entirely up to the DM, who is expected to be reasonable.
Basically there are two cases: 1. The rules allow the players to do something. The DM can restrict or stop that. 2. The rules do not allow the players to do something. The DM can give permission.
In the case of Free Actions, the rules merely allow the players to take Free Actions "during" or "on" someone's turn - it is imprecise. If a rule said you could "hit the planet" with your doomsday weapon, it does not say you can have it explode precisely on the head of the guy who stole your girlfriend. The rule merely says that you will hit the planet - it does not not say you have such precision in choosing where it hits. That's up to "luck" or "circumstance" - in otherwords, the DM.
Addendum for B: Consider three characters. Alice, Bob, and Charlie. It is Charlie's turn. He uses a Move Action and activates the McGuffin. The McGuffin summons a genie, who says "I will grant three wishes to the first person to say my name!" Alice, Bob, and Charlie all shout "Dave!" It is a free action to shout. Who shouted first?
(My answer: The rules don't cover this. It's up to the DM to find a fair way to resolve it.)
A, yes. The rules explicitly say you take a free action:1) On your turn as one of your actions, in any order (with the other actions).2) On/during another person's turn.It does not say you can take it any other time, so you can't. (Specific supersed
There are all sorts of things that happen on your turn that aren't actions, namely start of turn/end of turn effects. "Your turn" refers to all of that stuff as well as what happens in between. The book makes it pretty clear that start of turn/end of turn is part of taking your turn. I don't see any rule that states that this part of your turn "takes no time" or that free actions (for example, a free action power that boosts your saving throws) can't be used at these points. If this is what you are trying to convince me of, then I'm going to need to see some definite language (from the rulebook) or some *very* convincing reasoning.
Obviously, the timing of free actions with regards to other actions is unclear, and always has been. This makes triggering readied actions from free actions, among other things, problematic, especially when they interact with other powers and actions. The same problem exists with regards to immediate actions that use the same trigger. However, I'm not sure I accept your reasoning that players don't get to choose when they take free actions on other players/creatures turns. The absence of the ordering wording seems like a stretch, if that's all this is based on. Is there anything else supporting this interpretation? Obviously, if it causes a timing issue, the DM will need to rule on when/how the powers and actions involved resolve (and he needs to try and be consistent). But if it doesn't, there's no reason why the free action can't resolve when the player declares they want to take it. This is by far simpler than forcing the DM to vett every single free action a player might want to take.
Contrary to your assertion about there being only two cases, there is a third case: the rules just aren't defined. "action or event" is not really defined when it comes to readying an action, so the DM will need to decide what it means and rule consistently on it in his own game. Triggering a free action off of, say, a saving throw is neither allowed nor prohibited.
I'm also still unsure of what all this has to do with ready an action. The rules say that readied actions can be triggered from an action, and it doesn't say who has to take the action. So, technically, a player could trigger a readied action from a free action, even their own free action. This is obviosly problematic for all kinds of reasons, since it removes a lot of the uncertainty from triggering readied actions, and also creates timing issues because free actions can theoretically be inserted anywhere, even during other actions. Does this magically change ordinary powers into powers that work like interrupts? I should hope not, but there's no specific rule against it. How any of this works mechanically is simply undefined. I suppose I should say all of this under the bullet point on triggering from free actions, and eventually, I probably will. Beyond that, I'm not sure what you are after. I am starting to feel as though you are looking for ammunition in your argument with weasel, and if that's the case, I'll just bow out, since I'm not interested in participating.
There are all sorts of things that happen on your turn that aren't actions, namely start of turn/end of turn effects. "Your turn" refers to all of that stuff as well as what happens in between. The book makes it pretty clear that start of turn/en
There are all sorts of things that happen on your turn that aren't actions, namely start of turn/end of turn effects. "Your turn" refers to all of that stuff as well as what happens in between. The book makes it pretty clear that start of turn/end of turn is part of taking your turn. I don't see any rule that states that this part of your turn "takes no time" or that free actions (for example, a free action power that boosts your saving throws) can't be used at these points. If this is what you are trying to convince me of, then I'm going to need to see some definite language (from the rulebook) or some *very* convincing reasoning.
Ah, my mistake. It's only The End of Your Turn that says "it takes no time in the game world". Also, from your example, I see you've misunderstood me. A free action power is obviously specific, not general. I'm talking about things like shouting which aren't covered in the rules.
Contrary to your assertion about there being only two cases, there is a third case: the rules just aren't defined. "action or event" is not really defined when it comes to readying an action, so the DM will need to decide what it means and rule consistently on it in his own game. Triggering a free action off of, say, a saving throw is neither allowed nor prohibited.
...but this is my point. The DM needs to decide. There is no set of rules already in place for this.
You also misunderstood me. I do not mean that the system forbids an action in Case 2. I meant that the system does not grant the ability to take that action. The rules prohibit the player from taking an Opportunity Attack on their own turn. The rules do not grant the ability for the player to impregnate the princess. These are both under Case 2.
I'm also still unsure of what all this has to do with ready an action. The rules say that readied actions can be triggered from an action, and it doesn't say who has to take the action. So, technically, a player could trigger a readied action from a free action, even their own free action.
This is related to my previous quote.
Alice, Bob, and Charlie all Readied an Action against their own (Free Action) shout. The monster appears, and they all shout. Who shouts first?
The rules don't say. So it's up to the DM. That's the entirety of my point.
1. Free Action order/timing is not covered by the rules. 1b. Therefore, it is up to the DM to rule consistently. 2. You can trigger Ready An Action from Free Actions. 3. As a consequence of 1 + 2, the Readied action triggered from the Free Action ends up relying on the DM ruling.
That is the link to the topic of Ready An Action. Yes, you can Ready An Action against a Free Action trigger. Yet the rules don't cover a number of Free Actions. Specifically, the rules don't cover any Free Actions that aren't a part of features/feats/powers/etc. In other words... the rules don't cover Free Actions that aren't in the rules. So as a result, it's up to the DM (who you hope is fair, reasonable, and consistant). Which means this "loophole" in the rules isn't really that bad. If you get away with it, it's because the DM let you. You can't use the rules to argue your case against the DM, because none exist to support it.
I am starting to feel as though you are looking for ammunition in your argument with weasel, and if that's the case, I'll just bow out, since I'm not interested in participating.
My argument with weasel has always been lopsided, because he has always refused to address what I was saying, presenting it as a different issue. His point has been that Readied Actions triggered by Free Actions is abusive and shouldn't be used. My point has been that triggering by Free Actions is subject to the DM's control anyways, so it isn't a problem. He then misunderstood or misrepresented my position as "restricting Free Actions to prevent the problem" (of Readied Actions on Free Actions). However that has never been my point - my point was always that Free Actions (not covered by rules, distinct from features/powers) are subject to DM judgement anyways. He was saying that the players can do it - Case 1. The rules let them do it, and ruling otherwise would be a restriction. I am saying it's Case 2 - the rules don't grant them the ability to do it in the first place.
By the rules, we can "speak a few sentences" as a Free Action. How much is that? Can I recite the entirety of "I Have A Dream" as a Free Action? The rules don't cover it - so it's up to the DM to (fairly) arbitrate.
Ah, my mistake. It's only The End of Your Turn that says "it takes no time in the game world". Also, from your example, I see you've misunderstood me. A free action power is obviously specific, not general. I'm talking about things like shouting whic
Dialogue has no in combat effect, except for where it is explicitly stated otherwise. You break hide when you recite I have a Dream... and that's about it. You can ready an action for a creature breaking hide though.
I mean, as far as I'm concerned, characters can speak while stunned or even unconscious (talking in their sleep) as long as there's no descriptive text that suggests otherwise. And there often is.
But the reason that's allowed is because the "Talking Is A Free Action" trope is an abstraction. Talking isn't an action at all. It's an element of story, not of gameplay, and we could all benefit from learnign that these two things are seperate but equal-
-wait...
Gameplay and Story Segregation answer:Dialogue has no in combat effect, except for where it is explicitly stated otherwise. You break hide when you recite I have a Dream... and that's about it. You can ready an action for a creature breaking hide tho
Dialogue has no in combat effect, except for where it is explicitly stated otherwise. You break hide when you recite I have a Dream... and that's about it. You can ready an action for a creature breaking hide though.
I mean, as far as I'm concerned, characters can speak while stunned or even unconscious (talking in their sleep) as long as there's no descriptive text that suggests otherwise. And there often is.
But the reason that's allowed is because the "Talking Is A Free Action" trope is an abstraction. Talking isn't an action at all. It's an element of story, not of gameplay, and we could all benefit from learnign that these two things are seperate but equal-
-wait...
And yet talking is clearly a Free Action per the rules. It is not a "No Action," though the authors certainly knew how to do that if that was was desired.
And yet talking is clearly a Free Action per the rules. It is not a "No Action," though the authors certainly knew how to do that if that was was desired.
Lies. All references to talking that are recognized by the game merely refer to triggering rituals by talking, not actual instances of saying "Hello Fred How Are You." For anything else to be true, my entire argument would have to be considered quaint at best!
Lies. All references to talking that are recognized by the game merely refer to triggering rituals by talking, not actual instances of saying "Hello Fred How Are You." For anything else to be true, my entire argument would have to be considered quain
Lies. All references to talking that are recognized by the game merely refer to triggering rituals by talking, not actual instances of saying "Hello Fred How Are You." For anything else to be true, my entire argument would have to be considered quaint at best!
How quaint!
"Free Action
... In certain circumstances, the DM might decide to limit the use of free actions further. For instance, if an adventurer has already used free actions during a particular turn to talk, drop things, and use a class feature, the DM might rule that the adventurer can use no more free actions during that turn.
How quaint! :)"Free Action... In certain circumstances, the DM might decide to limit the use of free actions further. For instance, if an adventurer has already used free actions during a particular turn to talk, drop things, and use a clas
Is that the best you got? By that line, free actions can be used to talk, but that doesn't mean talking is necessarily a free action! I demand you prove otherwise!
Edit: In all fairness, 4E isn't quite sure how much it wants to segregate gameplay and story. It segregates it much more than any previous edition of Dungeons and Dragons, but in my opinion, probably doesn't segregate it as much as it should.
Is that the best you got? By that line, free actions can be used to talk, but that doesn't mean talking is necessarily a free action! I demand you prove otherwise!Edit: In all fairness, 4E isn't quite sure how much it wants to segregate gameplay and
Is that the best you got? By that line, free actions can be used to talk, but that doesn't mean talking is necessarily a free action! I demand you prove otherwise!
Edit: In all fairness, 4E isn't quite sure how much it wants to segregate gameplay and story. It segregates it much more than any previous edition of Dungeons and Dragons, but in my opinion, probably doesn't segregate it as much as it should.
Well, I haven't pulled out my PH or anything. but it's all I need. If Free Action can be used to talk, then you can trigger a Readied Action from talking - at least so long as you use a Free Action to do so.
Done.
You quaint, at best, argument is quashed. Have a nice day!
Well, I haven't pulled out my PH or anything. but it's all I need. If Free Action can be used to talk, then you can trigger a Readied Action from talking - at least so long as you use a Free Action to do so.Done.You quaint, at best, argument is qua
Huh? I never said you couldn't use a free action to talk for the explicit purpose of cheating via usage of Immediate Reactions (or whatever reason).
I'm more concerned about being unable to mumble in one's sleep, or to say "Must... resist... paralysis!" while stunned.
Huh? I never said you couldn't use a free action to talk for the explicit purpose of cheating via usage of Immediate Reactions (or whatever reason).I'm more concerned about being unable to mumble in one's sleep, or to say "Must... resist... paralysis
I'm more concerned about being unable to mumble in one's sleep, or to say "Must... resist... paralysis!" while stunned.
Ah. That's more like fluff text (and the writers have stated that fluff can be freely altered, just not the mechanics). You shouldn't be able to say something useful while stunned or unconscious, but useless dying utterances and Shatner... resisting... mind control are all fine as fluff.
Ah. That's more like fluff text (and the writers have stated that fluff can be freely altered, just not the mechanics). You shouldn't be able to say something useful while stunned or unconscious, but useless dying utterances and Shatner... resisting.
You can say useful things in order to metagame, because metagame has no mechanical advantages! I mean, there's no rules saying that if the fighter is dumb as a rock, but read the monster manual (the player I mean) the fighter player has to go out of his way to voluntarily not attack the target.
But you couldn't, say, trigger effects or use command words or something like that. Anything with a clearly defined mechanical effect can't be done while unconscious or stunned. But, if you're sharing information, information CAN be gained through mechanics, but my understanding is that-at least in the vast majority of circumstances-information itself is not a mechanic.
Game is weird.
I take exception with that.You can say useful things in order to metagame, because metagame has no mechanical advantages! I mean, there's no rules saying that if the fighter is dumb as a rock, but read the monster manual (the player I mean) the fight
I take exception with that. You can say useful things in order to metagame
Well... since allowing 'talking' while unconscious (i.e. dying utterances) is a DM fluff call (and is contrary to the regular rules), permitting those words to be informative could be too.
Well... since allowing 'talking' while unconscious (i.e. dying utterances) is a DM fluff call (and is contrary to the regular rules), permitting those words to be informative could be too.
I don't know that I'm going to find the support I need here, but let me give it a shot.
My DM reads the Readying Rules such that you must specify an exact creature as your target when you're readying. Let me provide an example from both his and my points of view:
His POV: A paladin in the middle of a field wants to ready a charge against "the first enemy to come into range". He believes this is terribly unrealistic as the paladin would have to be constantly check 360 degress around him for the first enemy to cross that 25-foot barrier, then rush up and hit him before he'd moved any further. I agree that's a little silly, but these are supposed to be heroes.
My POV: A ranger is 2 squares from a doorway, along a wall. He wants to ready an attack against "the first enemy to pass through the doorway that he can see." But with my DM's interpretation he has to phrase it as "when I see Orc #4 pass through the doorway." Orcs 1-4 act consecutively in initiative. Orcs 1-3 all come through and surround the ranger. Orc #4 comes by and the ranger either gets to eat 3 OAs or give up his action. Or he can pick Orc 1 and the DM just delays Orc 1's turn until after 2-4 and the same thing happens.
In my opinion, a ranger sitting by a doorway with an arrow notched shouldn't have to be looking for a specific creature. This is terribly unrealistic.
Is there anything specific in the rules, errata, podcasts, or customer service answers that specifically allows "first creature I can see"-type targeting for readied actions? Without a specific allowance, I'm pretty sure I've already lost this rules battle.
I don't know that I'm going to find the support I need here, but let me give it a shot.My DM reads the Readying Rules such that you must specify an exact creature as your target when you're readying. Let me provide an example from both his and my p
Is there anything specific in the rules, errata, podcasts, or customer service answers that specifically allows "first creature I can see"-type targeting for readied actions? Without a specific allowance, I'm pretty sure I've already lost this rules battle.
Nothing specific, that I'm aware of. Your DM is pretty much guaranteeing that "Ready An Action" is even weaker than it already is, but there's no specific definition of what the "action or event" you're Readying for can be.
Disallowing "an enemy comes into range" or "an enemy comes through that door" as valid triggers is just.... dumb, though.
Nothing specific, that I'm aware of. Your DM is pretty much guaranteeing that "Ready An Action" is even weaker than it already is, but there's no specific definition of what the "action or event" you're Readying for can be.Disallowing "an enemy com
One change in the RC for Ready an Action is Choose Trigger, which now states, "Choose the circumstance that will trigger the readied action."
Previously, the rule for a trigger was, "Choose the action that will trigger the readied action."
One change in the RC for Ready an Action is Choose Trigger, which now states, "Choose the circumstance that will trigger the readied action."Previously, the rule for a trigger was, "Choose the action that will trigger the readied action."
We ran into this issue in my group's last week game:
A PC moves and then readies an action (using an attack power to be precise). Before the trigger(target coming into range) is reached, the PC is dazed. What happens to the readied action? What happens to the PCs intiative?
We ran into this issue in my group's last week game:A PC moves and then readies an action (using an attack power to be precise). Before the trigger(target coming into range) is reached, the PC is dazed. What happens to the readied action? What hap
We ran into this issue in my group's last week game:
A PC moves and then readies an action (using an attack power to be precise). Before the trigger(target coming into range) is reached, the PC is dazed. What happens to the readied action? What happens to the PCs intiative?
A Dazed character can't take Immediate Actions.
Using your Readied attack is an Immediate Action.
So he can't use his Readied Action.
Since he doesn't use his Readied Action, none of the effects of taking the Readied Action (the action, the init shift, etc) happen, and so his init doesn't change. When his initiative comes around again, it's his turn like normal.
(If he becomes un-Dazed before the trigger, he's able to take the Readied action normally.)
A Dazed character can't take Immediate Actions.Using your Readied attack is an Immediate Action.So he can't use his Readied Action.Since he doesn't use his Readied Action, none of the effects of taking the Readied Action (the action, the init shift,
5. What is the difference between readying an action and delaying your turn?
Delaying your turn delays your entire turn until later in the round. Readying an action allows you to set up a specific action to happen later, contingent on a trigger condition. Both of them change your place in the initiative order.
Can you please remove or clarify this without the use of the word 'round.' I already have a GM that insist that once combat reaches the end of the round, I lose delayed and readied actions. But to be 'nice', I can choose to take them at that time. I would hate for that misinterpretation to spread as the rules for Delay/Ready never even mention round.
If you can get more than one standard action to spend, sure. However, note that since you only get one immediate action per round, you'll only get to use, at best, one of those readied actions. Any others will be wasted.
Just a nitpick considering the only way I see that happening is to action point for another readied action, which is kinda taboo in the first place but... If you did ready an action twice, and one was triggered after your turn in that round and the other was triggered before your turn in the next round, you wouldn't be affected by the 1/round rule.
Can you please remove or clarify this without the use of the word 'round.' I already have a GM that insist that once combat reaches the end of the round, I lose delayed and readied actions. But to be 'nice', I can choose to take them at that time.I
5. What is the difference between readying an action and delaying your turn?
Delaying your turn delays your entire turn until later in the round. Readying an action allows you to set up a specific action to happen later, contingent on a trigger condition. Both of them change your place in the initiative order.
Can you please remove or clarify this without the use of the word 'round.' I already have a GM that insist that once combat reaches the end of the round, I lose delayed and readied actions. But to be 'nice', I can choose to take them at that time. I would hate for that misinterpretation to spread as the rules for Delay/Ready never even mention round.
Your DM is wrong. Your Delay and Readied actions wait until *the start of your next turn*, and are lost then and only then.
"The end of the round" is meaningful only as a counter, or a timer for events that happen on "initiative zero" (often shifting terrain - a ship travelling downriver, gears of the giant clock you're fighting in ticking, etc)
If you can get more than one standard action to spend, sure. However, note that since you only get one immediate action per round, you'll only get to use, at best, one of those readied actions. Any others will be wasted.
Just a nitpick considering the only way I see that happening is to action point for another readied action, which is kinda taboo in the first place but... If you did ready an action twice, and one was triggered after your turn in that round and the other was triggered before your turn in the next round, you wouldn't be affected by the 1/round rule.
No. You get one Immediate Action between the end of your turn and the start of your next turn. Once again, the ticking "a new round" does not affect you - YOUR "round" ends at the start of your next turn.
Can you please remove or clarify this without the use of the word 'round.' I already have a GM that insist that once combat reaches the end of the round, I lose delayed and readied actions. But to be 'nice', I can choose to take them at that time.I
I know the DM was wrong on the first part but when it came up, it was my second time with a new group and I didn't want to be know as "The Rules Lawyer." I had already called up a couple of other things and had the feeling I was on the verge of becoming one. I Went to 'grab my bag for a drink' and he asked if I was going to pull out my laptop and look it up. He wasn't far off... I had a print-out of it in there.
Thanks for the clarification on the second part.I know the DM was wrong on the first part but when it came up, it was my second time with a new group and I didn't want to be know as "The Rules Lawyer." I had already called up a couple of other things
the only way I see that happening is to action point for another readied action, which is kinda taboo in the first place
There are other ways. Bards get Haste, which turns a Minor into a Standard, for example.
It's unusual to get two Standards in a turn (an Action point is the easiest, but there are other ways. Haste. Time Stop. Some monsters get two or more Standards at a time), and it's even more unusual to want to Ready two actions in a turn - and even if you did WANT to ready two actions at once, you could only use one of them.
Oh, and:There are other ways. Bards get Haste, which turns a Minor into a Standard, for example.It's unusual to get two Standards in a turn (an Action point is the easiest, but there are other ways. Haste. Time Stop. Some monsters get two or more
I had already called up a couple of other things and had the feeling I was on the verge of becoming one. I Went to 'grab my bag for a drink' and he asked if I was going to pull out my laptop and look it up. He wasn't far off... I had a print-out of it in there.
Nobody wants to be That Guy, although I admit to doing that myself sometimes.
My suggestion: Don't argue DURING the session, just go with it and bring it up later. Point out, if you can without seeming grating, the reasoning behind doing it this way and the simpler nature of the change.
Nobody wants to be That Guy, although I admit to doing that myself sometimes.My suggestion: Don't argue DURING the session, just go with it and bring it up later. Point out, if you can without seeming grating, the reasoning behind doing it this way
I admit I haven’t read all twenty pages of this thread, but I did search and scan and I didn’t see the answer to my question. I did read the first page in its entirety, which was very helpful.
Here's my question: Is the “Ready an Action” maneuver covered in any of the Heroes of the… books? I just got Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms last night, and it’s not in the index, glossary, or table of contents that I can see.
Thanks in advance!
I admit I haven’t read all twenty pages of this thread, but I did search and scan and I didn’t see the answer to my question. I did read the first page in its entirety, which was very helpful.Here's my question: Is the “Ready an Act
I admit I haven’t read all twenty pages of this thread, but I did search and scan and I didn’t see the answer to my question. I did read the first page in its entirety, which was very helpful.
Here's my question: Is the “Ready an Action” maneuver covered in any of the Heroes of the… books? I just got Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms last night, and it’s not in the index, glossary, or table of contents that I can see.
Thanks in advance!
The Heroes books are just character creation. You most likely will find the newest version of Ready An Action in the Rules Compendium, in the "actions in combat" section. However, I don't own a copy of the book so I can't tell you for sure.
The Heroes books are just character creation. You most likely will find the newest version of Ready An Action in the Rules Compendium, in the "actions in combat" section. However, I don't own a copy of the book so I can't tell you for sure.
Who's turn is it when your readied action is triggered? I'm pretty sure (and would rule) it is the the creature that triggered the Readied Action's turn, but could be contentious because of the movement in the initiative order. Biggest thing here is that you wouldn't be able to take immediate reactions on your own turn.
The thought occured to me because of the once per turn striker features. If it's the triggering creatures turn a rogue could use it as a poor mans Slaying Action (able to use Sneak Attack again on a Action Point). An example, maybe not the best, could be: Move into a flanking position Attack with Dazing Strike Pretty sure the monster will use his one action to attack, he Burns an action point to ready an action, piercing strike, With the trigger, The monster attacks
Who's turn is it when your readied action is triggered? I'm pretty sure (and would rule) it is the the creature that triggered the Readied Action's turn, but could be contentious because of the movement in the initiative order. Biggest thing here is
Who's turn is it when your readied action is triggered? I'm pretty sure (and would rule) it is the the creature that triggered the Readied Action's turn, but could be contentious because of the movement in the initiative order. Biggest thing here is that you wouldn't be able to take immediate reactions on your own turn.
The thought occured to me because of the once per turn striker features. If it's the triggering creatures turn a rogue could use it as a poor mans Slaying Action (able to use Sneak Attack again on a Action Point). An example, maybe not the best, could be: Move into a flanking position Attack with Dazing Strike Pretty sure the monster will use his one action to attack, he Burns an action point to ready an action, piercing strike, With the trigger, The monster attacks
Readying an action (i.e. choosing a trigger and an action) consumes a Standard action on your turn. When triggered, a readied action is an Immediate Reaction.
As you point out, Immediate Reactions cannot happen on your turn. When triggered, a readied action happens on the turn of whatever triggered it. Your scenario of a rogue readying to get another sneak attack works just fine.
Readying an action (i.e. choosing a trigger and an action) consumes a Standard action on your turn. When triggered, a readied action is an Immediate Reaction.As you point out, Immediate Reactions cannot happen on your turn. When triggered, a readie
It seems when you Ready an action using an AP, you can Ready yourself right out of a whole round of actions. The FAQ comes close to talking about this, but focuses on the triggers more than the timing. Did we do this correctly. or miss something easy (rather than bog down D&D night by looking thru rulebooks rather than actually playing )
so what happened is:
Round 1 20 PLAYER1 - does stuff, gets proned 15 PLAYER2 - does stuff, AP to Ready (trigger: PLAYER1 stands)
Round 2 20 PLAYER1 - Stands - PLAYER2 Readied Action, PLAYER2 initiative reset to 20 (before P1) - 20 PLAYER1 - does rest of stuff
Round 3 20.1 PLAYER2 - does stuff 20 PLAYER1 does stuff
The readied action effectively costs PLAYER2 an entire round of actions. The rule is pretty clear, "Reset Initiative: After you resolve your readied action, move your place in the initiative order to directly before the creature or the event that triggered your readied action."
the question is, should PLAYER2 take their normal turn immediately after PLAYER1 finishes? Or is the moral of the story, "don't ready an action with a trigger that elevates you in the initiative order, because you will basically be out your next turn?"
Now readying for a lower initiative event:
Round 1 20 PLAYER1 - does stuff 15 PLAYER2 - does stuff, falls prone
Round 2 20 PLAYER1 - does stuff, AP > Ready(trigger: P2 stands) 15 PLAYER2 - stands - Readied Action - PLAYER1 init goes to 16 15 PLAYER2 - does rest of stuff
Round 3 16 PLAYER1 - does stuff 15 PLAYER2 - does stuff
notice that the second example gives the readying player 3 full rounds of actions plus their AP, while the first example only gives the readying player 2 rounds of actions plus the AP.
I think we did it right, and am even pleased with the way it all worked out (turned what would have been a fairly impotent use of a power into a very timely one that repositioned us for maximum offense while dispersing us enough to make us bad targets for some nasty, nasty burst powers) but - Holy Refocusing, Batman! - I hate to think that moving up the initiative ladder is supposed to cost you a whole turn like that.
It seems when you Ready an action using an AP, you can Ready yourself right out of a whole round of actions. The FAQ comes close to talking about this, but focuses on the triggers more than the timing. Did we do this correctly. or miss something ea
Readying an Action allows you to wait for a more advantageous time to take your action at the risk of that more advantageous time never occuring.
The LFR group I play with had a discussion about this yesterday. The Ready and Delay rules for 4e are *not* the same as they were for 3.x. You cannot "delay to the top of the round." You can delay "to the bottom of the round" since you can just come out of delay after the last person in initiative goes, but you cannot use that to move your initiative to the first one in the combat. The only way to do that is to ready an action for the first person in combat to take some action. This will move your initiative to right before their initiative.
Doing that stinks of cheese to me, though.
Readying an Action allows you to wait for a more advantageous time to take your action at the risk of that more advantageous time never occuring.The LFR group I play with had a discussion about this yesterday. The Ready and Delay rules for 4e are *n
The Ready and Delay rules for 4e are *not* the same as they were for 3.x. You cannot "delay to the top of the round." You can delay "to the bottom of the round"
Rounds are cyclic... there is no difference between "top" and "bottom" of the round. This was stated even in 3.5: "For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time starting with the first character to act and ending with the last, but it usually means a span of time from one round to the same initiative count in the next round."
Rounds are cyclic... there is no difference between "top" and "bottom" of the round. This was stated even in 3.5:"For almost all purposes, there is no relevance to the end of a round or the beginning of a round. A round can be a segment of game time
It seems when you Ready an action using an AP, you can Ready yourself right out of a whole round of actions. [...] I hate to think that moving up the initiative ladder is supposed to cost you a whole turn like that.
You didn't "move up the initiative ladder", you "took a Standard Action before you would normally have been able to take a Standard Action", which happened to delay your turn for that round into "the next round".
There's no such thing as "top" or "bottom" after the first round.
What you've missed is that in round 4, the Readying player acts before he should. And again, before he should in round 5. And again, forever.
All of this is normal and expected.
(And your second example's subsequent turns aren't much delayed, because he didn't wait long to use his Readied Action. The longer you wait, the further you're delayed to act again - but the difference is only the loss of the time you delayed, no matter how long you delayed, because of the cyclical nature of rounds. The worst case, of course, is that you wait a full round, and your turn comes around as scheduled, causing you to lose the Readied action and actually be an action behind, rather than having the full complement of normal actions happening slightly late for one round)
You didn't "move up the initiative ladder", you "took a Standard Action before you would normally have been able to take a Standard Action", which happened to delay your turn for that round into "the next round".There's no such thing as "top" or "bot
There was kind of a "bottom" of the round though, an environmental effect/hazard that just plain went last. I didn't think it germaine to the examples, but it was the thing counting out the beat that made it seem like rounds were skipping over the readying player. At the end of Round #2, the hazard had fired twice, and the player had only taken 1 round + his AP which is when we noticed that all the monsters had also gone twice to his once. Considering his action pushed into round 3 makes it much clearer, but still hurts my head a little.
Not gonna lie - it still feels weird and wrong, but I can live with it being clearly my problem to get over it and not a rules issue.
Well, at least we did it correctly. There was kind of a "bottom" of the round though, an environmental effect/hazard that just plain went last. I didn't think it germaine to the examples, but it was the thing counting out the beat that made it seem
There was kind of a "bottom" of the round though, an environmental effect/hazard that just plain went last. I didn't think it germaine to the examples, but it was the thing counting out the beat that made it seem like rounds were skipping over the readying player. At the end of Round #2, the hazard had fired twice, and the player had only taken 1 round + his AP which is when we noticed that all the monsters had also gone twice to his once. Considering his action pushed into round 3 makes it much clearer, but still hurts my head a little.
Not gonna lie - it still feels weird and wrong, but I can live with it being clearly my problem to get over it and not a rules issue.
It is a little odd to consider the round as a cycle. The combat manager app I like most, "DnD4CM", displays the round in what I find is a very useful way: The current actor is ALWAYS at the top. When his turn is done and you click "next", he cycles to the bottom and the next action is ready.
(And "always goes last" is a little misleading - it's more "goes at 0" or "goes at -10" or "goes at -20,000", because it doesn't wait for everyone to go, it simply goes after everyone else moves in the normal initiative order - and if your Ready or delay takes you past the last normal actor, it can then take you past the environmental actor and towards the "first" actor again.)
It is a little odd to consider the round as a cycle. The combat manager app I like most, "DnD4CM", displays the round in what I find is a very useful way: The current actor is ALWAYS at the top. When his turn is done and you click "next", he cycle
Can you ready and action to shift one square when an enemy tries to make an attack against you? And if so, would this make an enemy lose his attack on a charge?
Can you ready and action to shift one square when an enemy tries to make an attack against you? And if so, would this make an enemy lose his attack on a charge?
Can you ready and action to shift one square when an enemy tries to make an attack against you? And if so, would this make an enemy lose his attack on a charge?
Readied actions fire as an Immediate Reaction to the trigger you set, so you completely resolve the triggering action/event before the readied action can be used. Thus, triggering on "enemy attacks" would not invalidate the attack (as you would first fully resolve the triggering attack, and then perform your readied action).
Readied actions fire as an Immediate Reaction to the trigger you set, so you completely resolve the triggering action/event before the readied action can be used. Thus, triggering on "enemy attacks" would not invalidate the attack (as you would firs
In the case of a charge, you could have readied an action for the enemy moving adjacent- but unless you move far enough that the enemy doesn't have enough squares to follow you, he'll still get his charge attack. For instance, if an enemy has a speed 6 and moves 5 square to get adjacent to you, having a readied action to shift back one square won't stop him from using his last square of movement to move adjacent again before his attack. If you moved back two or more squares, he'd still get one square of movement, but he wouldn't be able to take his charge attack unless he had enough reach to reach you.
In the case of a charge, you could have readied an action for the enemy moving adjacent- but unless you move far enough that the enemy doesn't have enough squares to follow you, he'll still get his charge attack. For instance, if an enemy has a spee
Mind you, you can counter with a bit of cheese -- since your readied action goes off on the enemy's turn, he can't OA you: ready a full move action, not a shift. Unless he's super-mobile, you'll likely be able to get far enough away. (Keep in mind that other enemies can still OA you as normal, just not the triggering enemy.)
Mind you, you can counter with a bit of cheese -- since your readied action goes off on the enemy's turn, he can't OA you: ready a full move action, not a shift. Unless he's super-mobile, you'll likely be able to get far enough away. (Keep in mind
Readying an Action allows you to wait for a more advantageous time to take your action at the risk of that more advantageous time never occuring.
The LFR group I play with had a discussion about this yesterday. The Ready and Delay rules for 4e are *not* the same as they were for 3.x. You cannot "delay to the top of the round." You can delay "to the bottom of the round" since you can just come out of delay after the last person in initiative goes, but you cannot use that to move your initiative to the first one in the combat. The only way to do that is to ready an action for the first person in combat to take some action. This will move your initiative to right before their initiative.
Doing that stinks of cheese to me, though.
Why dont you tell the truth and say " you dont like the idea of someone going before you". Sounds like a control issue to me.
Why dont you tell the truth and say " you dont like the idea of someone going before you". Sounds like a control issue to me.
Mind you, you can counter with a bit of cheese -- since your readied action goes off on the enemy's turn, he can't OA you: ready a full move action, not a shift. Unless he's super-mobile, you'll likely be able to get far enough away. (Keep in mind that other enemies can still OA you as normal, just not the triggering enemy.)
Not cheesy in the slightest. You lose your attack, and the tradeoff is the chance of him losing his attack if he chooses to attack you? Fair deal.
That's a perfectly acceptable tradeoff, mechanically, and so I can't call it "cheese".
Not cheesy in the slightest. You lose your attack, and the tradeoff is the chance of him losing his attack if he chooses to attack you? Fair deal.That's a perfectly acceptable tradeoff, mechanically, and so I can't call it "cheese".
Whew, 22 pages.. So let me see if I got this right,
1. I can ready a move when someone moves up to me to attack, and it: A. Doesn't disrupt their full movement. In other words, if a foe moved 2 squares up to me, and that triggered my 5' step, the foe can continue that movement after my triggered ready, thus he can finish his move, and move another square and attack me. B. if I readied a run instead of a 5' square, I can run when that foe moves up to me and a run won't provoke an opportunity attack. C. If the foe was charging me, and I readied a move, the move take place before the attack, but if the foe had more movement left, he can finish the charge, get closer, and get that charge attack in.
If this is correct, is this a community agreement or official?
Whew, 22 pages.. So let me see if I got this right,1. I can ready a move when someone moves up to me to attack, and it: A. Doesn't disrupt their full movement. In other words, if a foe moved 2 squares up to me, and that triggered my 5' step, the foe
Whew, 22 pages.. So let me see if I got this right,
1. I can ready a move when someone moves up to me to attack, and it: A. Doesn't disrupt their full movement. In other words, if a foe moved 2 squares up to me, and that triggered my 5' step, the foe can continue that movement after my triggered ready, thus he can finish his move, and move another square and attack me.
Yes. But don't use "5' Step" - that's a D20 term, and it will confuse you.
You have Readied an action. This action can be anything - but in this case, there is "Shift" which is "one square, does not provoke Opportunity Actions" or "Move" which is "Move my Speed". You could also Run, which is "Move my Speed +2, taking a -5 on all attack rolls and granting Combat Advantage until the start of my next turn". Of you could Ready any other Move Action. You could Ready a Charge. You could Ready a power that lets you move, attack, move, attack, move.
When the trigger you set for your Readied Action arrives ("the enemy steps into a square adjacent to me!") your Readied Action triggers. After the trigger (his step adjacent) but before anything else he does (moving further, attacking you, whatever), you take your entire Readied Action, start to finish. Once your Readied Action is over, his action resumes.
B. if I readied a run instead of a 5' square, I can run when that foe moves up to me and a run won't provoke an opportunity attack.
The run *will* provoke an OA, but creatures cannot take OAs on their own turn.
So anyone else can take the shot at you, but not the triggering creature. It's an important distinction: You *do* provoke an OA, but he can't take an OA.
C. If the foe was charging me, and I readied a move, the move take place before the attack, but if the foe had more movement left, he can finish the charge, get closer, and get that charge attack in.
That is correct. If you move to where he *can't* reach you with his remaining movement, his Charge will fizzle. However, you will be Reacting to one step of his movement, which will Interrupt *everything* else from his action, and that means that once your action is done his action will resume where it left off.
If this is correct, is this a community agreement or official?
This is how the rules actually, officially, definitely work. There are sometimes people who disagree, but those people are wrong, because this is not an interpretation and it requires no judgement calls. This is exactly what the rules in the book say and there is no other valid way to interpret those wordings.
Yes. But don't use "5' Step" - that's a D20 term, and it will confuse you.You have Readied an action. This action can be anything - but in this case, there is "Shift" which is "one square, does not provoke Opportunity Actions" or "Move" which is "M
I read somewhere at sometime that a DM could move all the monsters (on their initiative) at the same time, then make attacks for them as appropriate. Would this be legal? As I understand it, each monster on initiative count X would be moving, then essentially readying/delaying their action until the rest of them finished moving.
I read somewhere at sometime that a DM could move all the monsters (on their initiative) at the same time, then make attacks for them as appropriate. Would this be legal? As I understand it, each monster on initiative count X would be moving, then
I read somewhere at sometime that a DM could move all the monsters (on their initiative) at the same time, then make attacks for them as appropriate. Would this be legal? As I understand it, each monster on initiative count X would be moving, then essentially readying/delaying their action until the rest of them finished moving.
Do monster's know when a player readies an action, and does the DM need to announce that his monsters are readying their actions, detailing all the information about it? Clearly the DM needs to know but he can act as if the enemies don't. But if I announce "Monster X does this, with this trigger, and this target", clearly they'll never do it?
Do monster's know when a player readies an action, and does the DM need to announce that his monsters are readying their actions, detailing all the information about it?Clearly the DM needs to know but he can act as if the enemies don't.But if I anno
I looked through this thread and couldn't quite find this particular example, if its there, please excuse me but its something that I just need clarification for before I attempt to use it and look silly.
As a rogue, you only get your sneak attack dice once per "Turn" (barring the use of a feat regaining it on AP use), so I was mulling about the idea of:
1. Using a minor action attack, such as Tumbling strike or Low slash and use my sneak attack dice on hit
2. Using a standard action to ready a standard action attack, an at-will or encounter attack on the trigger of "The person whos turn it is after me makes an action"
3. My attack triggers, providing the action the previous person made does not move me out of attack range or doesn't forgo his turn entirely, and since it is not the same turn it gives me use of my sneak attack dice once again
4. My place in the initiative doesn't change, since I reset to go before the person who goes after me, placing me right where I was.
My main curiosities lie in if my trigger is valid. Everything else seems logical but i've been wrong before. Just wanna make sure before everyone at the table turns to look at me and thinks im crazy
I looked through this thread and couldn't quite find this particular example, if its there, please excuse me but its something that I just need clarification for before I attempt to use it and look silly.As a rogue, you only get your sneak attack dic
I looked through this thread and couldn't quite find this particular example, if its there, please excuse me but its something that I just need clarification for before I attempt to use it and look silly.
As a rogue, you only get your sneak attack dice once per "Turn" (barring the use of a feat regaining it on AP use), so I was mulling about the idea of:
1. Using a minor action attack, such as Tumbling strike or Low slash and use my sneak attack dice on hit
2. Using a standard action to ready a standard action attack, an at-will or encounter attack on the trigger of "The person whos turn it is after me makes an action"
3. My attack triggers, providing the action the previous person made does not move me out of attack range or doesn't forgo his turn entirely, and since it is not the same turn it gives me use of my sneak attack dice once again
4. My place in the initiative doesn't change, since I reset to go before the person who goes after me, placing me right where I was.
My main curiosities lie in if my trigger is valid. Everything else seems logical but i've been wrong before. Just wanna make sure before everyone at the table turns to look at me and thinks im crazy
Easier trigger: "I Speak a sentence." Talking is a free action. No rules ambiguity.
That said: Do. Not. Do. This. The Simple Answer sticky has a list in the first few posts of common questions, this one is in there. You'll find some links to threads discussing how the DM benefits enormously more from ready action abuse. To the point where it becomes an escalating ready action war which the DM will always win.
Easier trigger: "I Speak a sentence." Talking is a free action. No rules ambiguity. That said: Do. Not. Do. This. The Simple Answer sticky has a list in the first few posts of common questions, this one is in there. You'll find some links to threads
Wow, if it was a snake it would have bit me. My fault for looking on forums at 1am.
Thank you for the advice, I suppose Ill forgo doing this to keep the group happy at the cost of my 5d8 extra...
Wow, if it was a snake it would have bit me. My fault for looking on forums at 1am.Thank you for the advice, I suppose Ill forgo doing this to keep the group happy at the cost of my 5d8 extra...
I don't understand why people are so scared of this tactic. The most he could do it is, what? Four times in an encounter? That would be three minor action encounter powers and *maybe* recharge one of those with a power jewel. Maybe reclaim one with a Salve of Power.
The rest of the time, he will be doing his normal Standard action attacks.
I say let him get those three off-turn SAs per encounter. He probably could have gotten them with OAs anyway, so it's not hurting anything.
I don't understand why people are so scared of this tactic. The most he could do it is, what? Four times in an encounter? That would be three minor action encounter powers and *maybe* recharge one of those with a power jewel. Maybe reclaim one wi
I'd recommend you take a peek at the "Rogue out of turn sneak attack question" thread that I found after looking where Alcestis kindly directed me. I wont continue the argument here, since its listed on THAT thread and not what this one is about, but as I read it, I get the feeling that basically:
"Its perfectly legal, but dont abuse it, because the DM will abuse it even more to keep you in line"
so sure, you can do it, and heck you could probably get people to say "wow, nice job" the first time. But do it every fight, and the DM is going to adjust tactics to make sure performing that combo is unfavorable to you, especially since its technically as easy as what was stated. Trigger = "I laugh maniacally" which can be done as a free action immediately at the end of your turn
and Ill leave this forum for questions about the readying an action :3
I'd recommend you take a peek at the "Rogue out of turn sneak attack question" thread that I found after looking where Alcestis kindly directed me. I wont continue the argument here, since its listed on THAT thread and not what this one is about, but
Do monster's know when a player readies an action, and does the DM need to announce that his monsters are readying their actions, detailing all the information about it? Clearly the DM needs to know but he can act as if the enemies don't. But if I announce "Monster X does this, with this trigger, and this target", clearly they'll never do it?
Isn't that a good thing? You can prevent your players from doing a thing, simply by spending one creature's Standard on it?
I find it simplest to just make it clear who is Readying, for what, when. I make an exception for Hidden monsters. And then, both I *and* the players can play as if they know who's Readied, for what, when.
Narratively, we just decide that "He winds up and prepares to smack someone who comes into reach!" is obviously "Ready an Attack for when a creature comes into range"
Isn't that a good thing? You can prevent your players from doing a thing, simply by spending one creature's Standard on it?I find it simplest to just make it clear who is Readying, for what, when. I make an exception for Hidden monsters. And then,
Ok. But would I announce monster x has readied an attack for when billy comes within striking range of monster x? Do I really need to announce the trigger and target? And is "within range" a legal trigger?
Ok. But would I announce monster x has readied an attack for when billy comes within striking range of monster x?Do I really need to announce the trigger and target?And is "within range" a legal trigger?
Ok. But would I announce monster x has readied an attack for when billy comes within striking range of monster x? Do I really need to announce the trigger and target?
There is no "have to". There is only "you should apply the same rules to your NPCs as you apply to the PCs, and transparency is always good because it makes the game smoother".
It certainly meets the requirements for Readied actions. Even "I use Tide Of Iron on any enemy who gets into my reach!" is a perfectly good declaration - defined action, defined trigger, looks good.
There's a DM judgement call involved, here. But in general, it's better to err on the side of flexibility, and as long as the NPCs and the PCs use the same rules, you're good.
There is no "have to". There is only "you should apply the same rules to your NPCs as you apply to the PCs, and transparency is always good because it makes the game smoother".Do you want it to be?It certainly meets the requirements for Readied acti
Ok. Cool. Could players talking trigger an attack? The way I see it, there's some pretty silly triggers, but as long as they're legal attacks / actions, a trigger can be anything?
Ok.Cool.Could players talking trigger an attack?The way I see it, there's some pretty silly triggers, but as long as they're legal attacks / actions, a trigger can be anything?
Ok. Cool. Could players talking trigger an attack? The way I see it, there's some pretty silly triggers, but as long as they're legal attacks / actions, a trigger can be anything?
A legal trigger can be any circumstance in the game, limited only by how much the DM wants to limit you.
Jumping back a few pages in this very thread, I'm going to quote myself:
" if you restrict it purely to 'Actions' in the game mechanic sense, you're left with a bunch of nonsense cases that SHOULD be legal but aren't, or else you're left with people saying 'Okay, I set up my Reaction to this Free Action that I'm going to do. When I yell 'HOODY HOO', I will charge him! I end my turn, I roll my save.... 16! HOODY HOO!'
As far as allowing Ready triggers like 'If I Save against this condition' - again, it's not a big deal as long as both NPCs and PCs work on the same rules."
"My theory is this: 1) you can trigger off 'an action or event' 2) restricting 1 to 'non-Free Actions' in the mechanical sense results in nonsense badness in several obvious cases 3) restricting 1 to 'Actions' if you allow 'Free Actions' to count results in EFFECTIVELY being able to trigger any Readied action any time you want. 4) all rules that apply to PCs should apply equally to NPCs."
A legal trigger can be any circumstance in the game, limited only by how much the DM wants to limit you.Jumping back a few pages in this very thread, I'm going to quote myself:" if you restrict it purely to 'Actions' in the game mechanic sense, you'r
Alright. So, in theory if I wanted to be mean, I could make 6 creatures all trigger an action to shoot all at the same time if an enemy were to walk through the door? I mean, in theory, if I had 6 creatures, they all took their turns, and that was their triggered action, then that could legally happen? Seems harsh!
Alright.So, in theory if I wanted to be mean, I could make 6 creatures all trigger an action to shoot all at the same time if an enemy were to walk through the door?I mean, in theory, if I had 6 creatures, they all took their turns, and that was thei
Alright. So, in theory if I wanted to be mean, I could make 6 creatures all trigger an action to shoot all at the same time if an enemy were to walk through the door? I mean, in theory, if I had 6 creatures, they all took their turns, and that was their triggered action, then that could legally happen? Seems harsh!
That's totally legal. Of course, what's ALSO totally legal is for your party to say "6 creatures are keeping themselves out of this combat if we don't run through that door? SCORE! You guys keep doing that, we're going to kill the rest of the encounter without you."
So it's fair!
(If you're talking about "before combat starts", then you can't Ready An Action before combat starts. What you're looking for is, mechanically, a surprise round, which CAN work the same way but uses rules that make sense outside combat)
That's totally legal. Of course, what's ALSO totally legal is for your party to say "6 creatures are keeping themselves out of this combat if we don't run through that door? SCORE! You guys keep doing that, we're going to kill the rest of the enco
And if you're aware of monsters, but they are unaware of you, would that consider the start of combat?
Combat starts whenever people start taking combat actions. As long as nobody's attacking, and one side isn't even aware of the other, there's no combat.
You *could* Ready an action during the surprise round, but why?It's pretty much always better to act. Combat starts whenever people start taking combat actions. As long as nobody's attacking, and one side isn't even aware of the other, there's no c
It surely have been discussed but I missed the page. After executing the readied actions, you change your initiative before the event that triggered the action. So in some way, it can be use to get a higher initiative that at the beginning of the fight.
e.g. : Monster A rolled initiative 25 and player 1 only 10, At his initiative, player 1 ready his action (like when Monster attacks me, I'll use power XXX against him). So if the trigger is met, player 1 will play in the future in initiative 26 (as it s before the event), right? Or is it 25 but before Monster A ? And if there are others creatures playing at 25 (or 26), how determine who should play first? The higest bonus of initiative first ? Or no matter what is hte initiative bonus of player 1, he will always plays before Monster A and the other creatures will determine their orders as usual (higher bonus of initiative first).
It surely have been discussed but I missed the page. After executing the readied actions, you change your initiative before the event that triggered the action. So in some way, it can be use to get a higher initiative that at the beginning of the fig
You go directly before whoever's turn it is when your action goes off. Initiative only matters on round 1, after that it is just an order, so there is no real benefit.
You go directly before whoever's turn it is when your action goes off. Initiative only matters on round 1, after that it is just an order, so there is no real benefit.
Can you continue with other actions after you have completed your readied action? i.e. you start your turn, you take a standard action to ready an action. Do you then declare turn over? I think yes, as that is the difference between delaying and readying an action. Then the trigger occurs, you take your readied action. Can you then use a free action to use an action point?
Can you continue with other actions after you have completed your readied action? i.e. you start your turn, you take a standard action to ready an action. Do you then declare turn over? I think yes, as that is the difference between delaying and read
Can you continue with other actions after you have completed your readied action? i.e. you start your turn, you take a standard action to ready an action. Do you then declare turn over? I think yes, as that is the difference between delaying and readying an action. Then the trigger occurs, you take your readied action. Can you then use a free action to use an action point?
No, because you can only spend action points on your own turn and a readied action goes off on someone else's turn.
No, because you can only spend action points on your own turn and a readied action goes off on someone else's turn.
Can you continue with other actions after you have completed your readied action? i.e. you start your turn, you take a standard action to ready an action. Do you then declare turn over? I think yes, as that is the difference between delaying and readying an action. Then the trigger occurs, you take your readied action. Can you then use a free action to use an action point?
You can continue with your move/minor after you ready... seems silly, but you can. The difference between delaying and readying is you have to delay your whole turn, readying you use your Standard on your turn to ready.
No, you can only spent APs on your turn.
You can continue with your move/minor after you ready... seems silly, but you can. The difference between delaying and readying is you have to delay your whole turn, readying you use your Standard on your turn to ready. No, you can only spent APs on
I'm pretty sure your turn ends as soon as you ready an action. Also, I think the question was about using unused actions after the readied action goes off.
I'm pretty sure your turn ends as soon as you ready an action. Also, I think the question was about using unused actions after the readied action goes off.
Can you continue with other actions after you have completed your readied action? i.e. you start your turn, you take a standard action to ready an action. Do you then declare turn over? I think yes, as that is the difference between delaying and readying an action. Then the trigger occurs, you take your readied action. Can you then use a free action to use an action point?
Kind of, no, and no. Respectively.
Readying an action takes a Standard Action, exactly like every other Standard Action. You can take it as the first action on your turn, or the last. You can spend an AP before or after Readying, exactly like every other Standard Action. There is *nothing* special about Ready An Action - it works exactly the way Tide Of Iron and Second Wind, or any other Standard Actions, do.
When your Readied Action is *triggered*, it is not your turn. You resolve your Readied Action, and you move your init, but it's still not your turn. You can't do things now that you can't do at any other not-your-turn time.
Kind of, no, and no. Respectively.Readying an action takes a Standard Action, exactly like every other Standard Action. You can take it as the first action on your turn, or the last. You can spend an AP before or after Readying, exactly like ever
Its even possible to Ready An Action twice with an AP. You wouldn't be able to use the two Readied Acions since they are Immediate Reaction, but you could still set up two Triggering actions or events to react to.
Its even possible to Ready An Action twice with an AP. You wouldn't be able to use the two Readied Acions since they are Immediate Reaction, but you could still set up two Triggering actions or events to react to.
I have taken a feat that allows my shaman to summon my spirit companion (SC) as a free action. I am wondering if, when I ready an action, I can summon my SC and then attack through it.
I have taken a feat that allows my shaman to summon my spirit companion (SC) as a free action. I am wondering if, when I ready an action, I can summon my SC and then attack through it.
I have taken a feat that allows my shaman to summon my spirit companion (SC) as a free action. I am wondering if, when I ready an action, I can summon my SC and then attack through it.
If the Feat lets you summon your Spirit Companion as a free action *on someone else's turn*, then that seems to work perfectly - you Ready your action for "when my Spirit appears, I will use Some Spirit Power through it", then summon your Spirit which triggers your Ready.
The only "summon as a Free Action" feat I can think of restricts it to only on your turn, though - what's the name of the Feat you took?
If the Feat lets you summon your Spirit Companion as a free action *on someone else's turn*, then that seems to work perfectly - you Ready your action for "when my Spirit appears, I will use Some Spirit Power through it", then summon your Spirit whic
I have taken a feat that allows my shaman to summon my spirit companion (SC) as a free action. I am wondering if, when I ready an action, I can summon my SC and then attack through it.
If the Feat lets you summon your Spirit Companion as a free action *on someone else's turn*, then that seems to work perfectly - you Ready your action for "when my Spirit appears, I will use Some Spirit Power through it", then summon your Spirit which triggers your Ready.
The only "summon as a Free Action" feat I can think of restricts it to only on your turn, though - what's the name of the Feat you took?
It's called "Nimble Spirit," and as it states: "You can use call spirit companion as a free action during your turn." I guess I have my answer there. Thanks.
If the Feat lets you summon your Spirit Companion as a free action *on someone else's turn*, then that seems to work perfectly - you Ready your action for "when my Spirit appears, I will use Some Spirit Power through it", then summon your Spirit whic
What I thought was that when announcing my creature's Ready Action (attack when PC gets in range) was that it is visible that the creature is readying something but other than that no information is known to the PC.
I was somewhat distraught when the player said, okay he's waiting for me to get near, so I'll just circle around him instead. This is when I started realizing, should the DM keep his Ready Action triggers to himself?
Just a small Ready Action question:What I thought was that when announcing my creature's Ready Action (attack when PC gets in range) was that it is visible that the creature is readying something but other than that no information is known to the PC.
What I thought was that when announcing my creature's Ready Action (attack when PC gets in range) was that it is visible that the creature is readying something but other than that no information is known to the PC.
I was somewhat distraught when the player said, okay he's waiting for me to get near, so I'll just circle around him instead. This is when I started realizing, should the DM keep his Ready Action triggers to himself?
No more than a player should keep his Ready Action triggers to himself.
Players start avoiding monster triggers? Great, that gives you a tool to compel players to act the way you want to - and you can have monsters avoid player triggers, too. All's fair, nobody needs to pretend they don't know something they do, and there's 4 extra brains at the table who will remember "Hey, that means that guy can take his Readied Action!", which is always handy.
No more than a player should keep his Ready Action triggers to himself.Players start avoiding monster triggers? Great, that gives you a tool to compel players to act the way you want to - and you can have monsters avoid player triggers, too. All's
Why would you want to ready an action over just delaying your turn? Delaying seems more beneficial especially when working in conjunction with a teammate. Just place yourself after the teammate that will be performing the setup action.
Why would you want to ready an action over just delaying your turn? Delaying seems more beneficial especially when working in conjunction with a teammate. Just place yourself after the teammate that will be performing the setup action.
Why would you want to ready an action over just delaying your turn? Delaying seems more beneficial especially when working in conjunction with a teammate. Just place yourself after the teammate that will be performing the setup action.
If your teammate is performing the setup action, sure, but what if you're waiting for a monster? Or you want to go after your teammate's *attack* but before his *move*? Or if you need to move first before setting up your action, or you need to Sustain a power but still want to delay your action?
There's a bunch of reasons why Ready can be useful.
If your teammate is performing the setup action, sure, but what if you're waiting for a monster? Or you want to go after your teammate's *attack* but before his *move*? Or if you need to move first before setting up your action, or you need to Sust
So as a result, it's up to the DM (who you hope is fair, reasonable, and consistant). Which means this "loophole" in the rules isn't really that bad. If you get away with it, it's because the DM let you. You can't use the rules to argue your case against the DM, because none exist to support it.
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