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2 years ago ::
May 11, 2011 - 10:19AM
#801
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Date Joined:
Apr 11, 2010
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I asked CS this morning. Waiting for a response.
It's true that Dual Implement specifies 2 implements, but the wording is similar to several feats and powers for 2 weapons. It is understood that when Twin Strike says "You must be wielding 2 weapons" that a double weapon counts as 2 weapons.
Also, having to multiclass into fighter to take a feat to use an implement better strikes me as odd.
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2 years ago ::
May 11, 2011 - 10:52AM
#802
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Fine in a home campaign, but treating a staff as a double weapon is not the same as "Both of your implements" (let alone the spirit of "Dual Implement" in the name). We can argue that "you are wielding a magic implement in each hand" might be met by staff fighting, but I think it is the kind of thing to do only in home campaigns. Someone can always ask CS, explainign the wording and seeing what they say.
Edit: Also, "You can treat the quarterstaff as a double weapon" is likely not going to work. Implement and weapon are different, and my guess is the staff remains a one-handed implement. That might be an interesting question to try to settle via CS.
Double Weapons are, explicitly, two of the same item, with each end sharing the same properties. You'd need a very contrived argument for it not to work, by RAW.
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2 years ago ::
May 11, 2011 - 11:22AM
#803
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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Fine in a home campaign, but treating a staff as a double weapon is not the same as "Both of your implements" (let alone the spirit of "Dual Implement" in the name). We can argue that "you are wielding a magic implement in each hand" might be met by staff fighting, but I think it is the kind of thing to do only in home campaigns. Someone can always ask CS, explainign the wording and seeing what they say.
Edit: Also, "You can treat the quarterstaff as a double weapon" is likely not going to work. Implement and weapon are different, and my guess is the staff remains a one-handed implement. That might be an interesting question to try to settle via CS.
Double Weapons are, explicitly, two of the same item, with each end sharing the same properties. You'd need a very contrived argument for it not to work, by RAW.
Well, my thought is around the definition of Implement vs. Weapon. A "weapliment" takes up hands as if it were a weapon, not an implement. But the same is not true of an implement. See the difference? A staff as a weapon or weapliment is a two-handed weapon and you get that Weapon benefit from staff fighting. But, as an implement, I'm not sure it applies. Great, I can treat that staff as a double weapon. I'm holding a weapon in each hand... except I want to wield an implement in each hand. The feat doesn't do that for me.
Of course, there is always the RAW vs. RAI. Is anyone truly arguing that when they wrote Staff Fighting or Dual Implement Spellcaster that they thought these should work together? Really? Or are we in the realm of exploiting something due to wording?
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2 years ago ::
May 11, 2011 - 12:08PM
#804
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Date Joined:
Apr 11, 2010
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This isn't about exploiting something. A character can easily pick up a second implement and use it in their off hand (since a staff is a one handed implement). The only advantages to the staff being a double implement are:
-you can get Hafted Fighting
-you get a good MBA
-you don't have to pay for a second implement
But you lose out on the versatility of having a second implement with different powers from the first. For sorcerers, taking a rhythm blade as an off-hand weapon and versatile expertise fixes the first two problems, leaving the only issue being whether you want to pay for another magic item. It's not a big deal. This is mostly a flavour issue. I could just as easily carry a staff in each hand and have no MBA, but that would just be strange.
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2 years ago ::
May 11, 2011 - 12:31PM
#805
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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The idea that CS would actually settle it amuses me.
They would provide an interpretation. If you're lucky, it wouldn't be provably wrong. I don't generally trust CS as far as I can throw them.
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2 years ago ::
May 11, 2011 - 3:53PM
#806
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Well, my thought is around the definition of Implement vs. Weapon. A "weapliment" takes up hands as if it were a weapon, not an implement. But the same is not true of an implement. See the difference? A staff as a weapon or weapliment is a two-handed weapon and you get that Weapon benefit from staff fighting. But, as an implement, I'm not sure it applies. Great, I can treat that staff as a double weapon. I'm holding a weapon in each hand... except I want to wield an implement in each hand. The feat doesn't do that for me.
Of course, there is always the RAW vs. RAI. Is anyone truly arguing that when they wrote Staff Fighting or Dual Implement Spellcaster that they thought these should work together? Really? Or are we in the realm of exploiting something due to wording?
Actually a Weapliment just means it can also be used as a weapon..... that's it. Swordmages can wield a Glaive one-handed and use it as an Implement and still trigger things that trigger off of "attacking using a weapon." Welcome to look it up. And yes, if you're holding a staff in each hand, because double weapons have mundane and magical properties on both hands, then.. you're wielding a staff in each hand. Not unclear at all.
I don't think I am alone in saying that RAI is baseless speculation at best. We have the rules text. We operate by it. Done. If they intended something else, they'd errata it.
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2 years ago ::
May 12, 2011 - 8:13AM
#807
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Date Joined:
Apr 11, 2010
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So I got my answer back:
Q:If a character with a staff implement is using it two-handed (even though a staff implement will work with just one hand if it's only being used as an implement) does it count as two implements for purposes of this feat?
A:Unfortunately, this won;t work. The staff grants a single bonus, which can't be 'doubled' on the virtue of being two handed. The Dual Implement feat is designed so you can use a variety of implements to stack acceptable bonuses. Now, you can certainly use a wand or rod in the other hand to stack these bonuses... Just a thought.
Frankly, I'm disappointed. From a gaming point of view, letting a character double-hand a staff has the advantage of being cheaper and giving the character a decent MBA at the cost of not having a second set of properties be available to them (for example, a frostcheese character might have a frost weapon in one hand, and a do-more-damage weapon in the other). Staff-only users (a classic wizard archetype) are pretty much shafted for no reason.
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2 years ago ::
May 20, 2011 - 7:49PM
#808
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I have a question about the flaming sphere I'm hoping someone could answer for me.
Under effect the text says: Any creature that starts its turn adjacent to the sphere takes 1d4 + intelligence modifier fire damage.
Under hit it says: 2d6 + intelligence modifier fire damage.
I know you can move the sphere and it's text says the target is an adjacent creature.
Which damage do I apply and at what times? Is one for the first hit and the other for when you move it?
Any help would be appreciated.
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2 years ago ::
May 23, 2011 - 2:50PM
#809
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2001
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I have a question about the flaming sphere I'm hoping someone could answer for me.
Under effect the text says: Any creature that starts its turn adjacent to the sphere takes 1d4 + intelligence modifier fire damage.
Under hit it says: 2d6 + intelligence modifier fire damage.
I know you can move the sphere and it's text says the target is an adjacent creature.
Which damage do I apply and at what times? Is one for the first hit and the other for when you move it?
Any help would be appreciated.
This thread is for posting the answers received from Wizards of the Coast Customer Service. You might want to post in the "Ask a Quick Question" thread next thread over
The Great Gray Skwid
Humblest Mollusk on the Net
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2 years ago ::
Jun 25, 2011 - 9:29AM
#810
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Doom of the Unworthy
Effect: Until the end of your next turn, your allies can treat each attack roll against the target as a 10 instead of rolling the attack.
Holy Ardor (11th level): Whenever you make two attack rolls because of your oath of enmity and hit the target of your attack, you score a critical hit if both dice have the same roll, except if both rolls are 1.
Do the 2 things combine to ensure crits (assuming the avenger hit's on a 10).[/quote}
Hello Mello,
Thanks for contacting Wizards of the Coast! Doom of Unworthy applies to your allies attacks, while Holy Arbor requires you to make two of the same attack roll. So, these attack rolls would not apply for the critical hits. In a different situation, if you replace two of your attack rolls with 10, you would be able to count those as the same roll and use Holy Arbor to grant a critical hit.
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Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.
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Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.
Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.
Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.
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Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.
Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.
Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.
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The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.
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