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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 12:49AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2005
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Nearly all power descriptions that deal damage read "X[W] + Ability modifier" (e.g. "3[W] + Strength modifier"), but that usually leaves out feat, enhancement, and other damage bonuses. Here is when the PHB specifically tells us how to add enhancement bonuses:
Magic weapons and implements grant their enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls only when you use powers delivered through the weapon or the implement (or directly from the weapon or the implement, for items that have attack powers).[/quote]
Does this effectively mean "only add enhancement bonuses when the power has a weapon or implement keyword"? Do I add the bonuses even when a weapon's damage die (the [W]) isn't involved too? Are there powers where I don't add enhancement bonuses?
Here are two examples:
WARLOCK
With a +1 rod and 18 charisma, my level 3 warlock Goldsnicker has a +6 attack bonus and 1d10+5 damage when using an Eldritch Blast. All's good so far.
But how much damage does he deal when he uses Armor of Agathys? Notice there is no "implement" keyword in the power's description. Does he deal 1d6+4 (just CHA) or 1d6+5 (CHA + implement's enhancement)?
WARLORD
With a +4 weapon and 20 strength, my level 16 warlord Xanthos also has the Dwarven Weapon Training feat (+2 feat bonus to damage rolls). When he uses a power that says, "Deal damage equal to your Strength modifier," does he also include his enhancement and feat damage bonuses with that damage?
For example, when he dishes out a Furious Smash, does Xanthos deal 5 damage (just STR) or 11 damage (STR + 4 weapon + 2 feat)? Keep in mind that unlike Goldsnicker's Armor of Agathys power, Furious Smash DOES include "weapon" as one of the keywords.
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Basically I want to know how each example should play out, and where in the DMG/PHB does it tell you this? It seems to be unnecessarily confusing that some powers have a different damage bonus than others (i.e., I don't think most groups would spot that the Armor of Agathys power lacks an implement keyword; I thought at first it was an error; maybe it is?).
If this is the case, do any other powers have weird alternate ways of calculating damage like this?
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 1:00AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2008
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One important thing is the enhancement bonus to damage is applied to damage rolls. A lot of bonuses to damage only affect the damage rolls, not static damage. Since Furious Smash does not involve a damage roll, it does not get the bonus. Note that since Furious Smash does have the Weapon keyword, it would get enhancement bonuses on the attack roll!
The rule on implements adding enhancement to attack and damage rolls is in the implement section for each class (for Warlocks, page 131).
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 1:00AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2007
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Here is when the PHB specifically tells us how to add enhancement bonuses:
Yes, but you should also look at the very bottom of page 55, the "Accessories" subsection of the "Keywords" section. That discusses the implement and weapon keywords in greater detail.
Does this effectively mean "only add enhancement bonuses when the power has a weapon or implement keyword"?
That is exactly correct.
how much damage does he deal when he uses Armor of Agathys? Notice there is no "implement" keyword in the power's description. Does he deal 1d6+4 (just CHA) or 1d6+5 (CHA + implement's enhancement)?
You've answered your own question.  There is no implement keyword, so he doesn't get the implement bonus.
...also has the Dwarven Weapon Training feat (+2 feat bonus to damage rolls). When he uses a power that says, "Deal damage equal to your Strength modifier," does he also include his enhancement and feat damage bonuses with that damage?
Dwarven Weapon Training is keyed to the proficient use of axes and hammers, so it applies only to attacks with the weapon keyword, when used with an axe or a hammer.
when he dishes out a Furious Smash, does Xanthos deal 5 damage (just STR) or 11 damage (STR + 4 weapon + 2 feat)? Keep in mind that unlike Goldsnicker's Armor of Agathys power, Furious Smash DOES include "weapon" as one of the keywords.
The weapon keyword gives him the attack bonus for weapon proficiency. However as mithmurr points out, this power doesn't have a damage roll, so you can't add bonus damage to the roll you aren't making.
- Alane -
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 1:05AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2008
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For the passage in the PHB that says you only get the enhancement bonus if it has the weapon or implement keyword, look at the bottom of page 55, "Accessories."
(Would have posted this in my first response, but I forgot where it had stated this explicitly.)
edit: And then Alane Ninja'd the info anyway, who apparently is taking lessons from the Swiss
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 1:09AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2007
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edit: And then Alane Ninja'd the info anyway, who apparently is taking lessons from the Swiss
Oh, like you're one to complain! You ninja'd my entire answer! 
- Alane -
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 6:43AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jul 18, 2005
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Okay, I guess that makes sense. I was lumping the other modifiers (feat, enhancement, etc.) into the "ability modifier" part of the damage expression rather than the "X[W]" part, based on this passage:
Example: Valenae. a 12th-level eladrin paladin, hits a foe with thunder smite. The attack deals 2[W] + Strength modifier thunder damage and knocks the target prone. The damage would be 2d8 (longsword’s 1d8
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 8:57AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
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Probably just a bad example. It just seemed odd that you're supposed to group the feat and enhancement bonuses with the damage roll, but when you multiply the damage die, you don't multiply those bonuses as well.
Thanks guys
Not odd at all. The x[W] is the damage roll. Add enhancement bonuses, feat bonuses, and other misc bonuses to damage rolls after you roll damage.
Look at page 276, Weapon Damage Dice and you'll note that [W] stands for the damage dice of the weapon only. All other modifiers are added after the roll.
TBP
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 12:35PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2008
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What about this power then? Would you then add the implement damage to the secondary damage if the targeted creature moved closer to you in the next round? Dire Radiance Warlock Attack 1
You cause a shaft of brilliant, cold starlight to lance down from above, bathing your foe in excruciating light. The nearer he moves toward you, the brighter and more deadly the light becomes.
At-Will Arcane, Fear, Implement, Radiant
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: One creature
Attack: Constitution vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Constitution modifier radiant damage. If the target moves nearer to you on its next turn, it takes an extra 1d6 + Constitution modifier damage.
Increase damage and extra damage to 2d6 + Constitution modifier at 21st level.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 12:36PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2007
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What about this power then? Would you then add the implement damage to the secondary damage if the targeted creature moved closer to you in the next round?
Yes, since it has the implement keyword and has a damage roll.
TBP
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5 years ago ::
Jul 01, 2008 - 3:45PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Yes, since it has the implement keyword and has a damage roll.
TBP
Okay, I know how irritating this is, but I don't have my PHB handy, as I'm at work - but!
If I use the Fighter's at will Cleave ability, I would naturally gain enhancement bonuses on the initial attack.
Since STR damage is automatically applied to the adjacent creature, that damage does NOT benefit from enhancement/feat/power bonuses, correct? It's just static STR?
To clarify - I swing at a kobold, and deal 1[W]+7 STR damage to it (+1 enhancement bonus, +1 feat bonus). My unmodified STR bonus is only a +5 though, so I deal 5 damage to his buddy?
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