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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 10:02PM
#41
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Many class features, such as Divine Challenge and Lay on Lands are powers. They just are, there's not really any questioning that. THEY ARE POWERS.
The question is whether Dilettante was meant to allow you to select them, or to only let you pick from the two at-will attack powers every class gets at 1st level.
This is ambiguous, and I'm pretty sure it will remain ambiguous until customer service or errata clarifies it because the racial feature itself just doesn't say.
Instead of arguing about whether or not a class feature that describes itself in its own text block as a power is actually a power, let's consider which interpretation would be better for the game.
I'd tend to side with allowing them to pick up things like Divine Challenge, as half elves, and the Dilettante power especially, are kinda weak as is and this would add something really interesting to them, as not even paragon multiclassing can get you some of these powers. I can't really think of anything broken about allowing this at the moment.
On the other hand, I tend to not want to use that interpretation as instead of multiclassing easier, half elves would multiclass better than any other race. I'm worried about players feeling like they have to pick half-elf if they want to multiclass well, and character concept should always trump game mechanics in determining what race someone picks. I feel making players choose between roleplaying and making good design decisions is bad.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 10:03PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2003
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The definition that states that the class powers have specific names ( Prayers, Exploits, and Spells) AND the definition that states there are two types of powers ( Attack and Utility).
The first is in each class description. The second is the powers section. These both help to show what they consider a power to be.
Oh, also on page 29 the Total Powers known chart happens to not include Class Features in the calculations, as if they didn't count as powers.
All the first one does is give a different name for powers of that class. It doesn't say that class features can't also be powers, and I doubt that just to maintain that they would right "Class Features / Prayers" as a header when Class Features does fine.
The total powers known chart is there to help you know how many new powers to learn, class features are automatically known so why would they be on there?
Also, on page 52 it says this:
Class Features: Class features are abilities shared by every member of the class. Some class features are powers that every member of a class can use, such as the warlock’s eldritch blast or the cleric’s Channel Divinity ability. Others are more like racial traits—they’re not so much things you do as things that modify the effects of what you do.
Emphasis mine. So it does clearly say that class features can be powers.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 09, 2008 - 12:28AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Nov 29, 2007
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Also, on page 52 it says this:
Emphasis mine. So it does clearly say that class features can be powers.
Class features give you powers, and while those powers are powers for all intents of the word (you can use them, they have a stat block), they are NOT At Will Powers such that you can use them with Dilettante. All AT WILL POWERS are clearly marked as such.
Observe:
Heh keep in mind I'm not the OP, I just jumped into this because I feel that half-elves are getting the short end of the stick and that this is being misinterpreted.
That's fine, and I'd suggest doing the DDXP thing, and allowing them to take an At Will Power as an At Will Power instead of an encounter power. This fixes everything, and was one of the first houserules I made (along with things like removing the extra text from Divine Challenge, since it's a clumsy mess and ****s the power up when you try to combine it with other Paladin abilites, like None Shall Pass).
Just be aware that a house rule is a house rule, and don't try attempting to justify it as legal when it's not.
Otherwise, you are arguing that Half-Elves should be able to take Shadow Stride and Holy Lantern as per-encounter powers.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 2:20PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2003
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Class features give you powers, and while those powers are powers for all intents of the word (you can use them, they have a stat block), they are NOT At Will Powers such that you can use them with Dilettante. All AT WILL POWERS are clearly marked as such.
I agree, they are clearly marked as such. Lay on Hands is described both as a power and is usable at will.
Just be aware that a house rule is a house rule, and don't try attempting to justify it as legal when it's not.
Otherwise, you are arguing that Half-Elves should be able to take Shadow Stride and Holy Lantern as per-encounter powers.
Straw man much? Shadow Stride and Holy Lantern are not 1st level powers, and one can not learn powers higher than their level. (At least, I'm pretty sure it says that somewhere.) At any rate, that's not the argument I'm making.
ANYWAYS, I got this response from customer service:
Michael,
The intent of this feature is for the Half-Elf to gain a first level attack power from the chosen class, but if your DM chooses to allow you to apply it to the Paladin's Lay on Hands ability it will be their decision.
Please let me know if you need anymore help!
Good Gaming!
So regardless what fuzziness exists because of the actual RAW, the intent is to limit the selection to attack powers, as boring as that is.
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