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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 6:59PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2003
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rule of thumb: if it has a different name then it is a different thing. an at will power is an at will power not a class feature. I would say no you can't take lay on hands as a ranger with out multiclassing to a paladin because lay on hands is a class feature. but you can take the paladin's at will prayers is you want.
what sort of clarification do you need on this topic?
judas : "ok man if you want you can have the green one."
carmichael : "can I take the red one?"
judas : "is the red one the color of green?"
carmichael : "no."
judas : "ok then. there is your answer."
Alright well, 1) Multiclassing doesn't let you learn Lay on Hands. It only lets you learn attack powers, (a distinction not made by dilettante).
And your analogy doesn't apply. It is not as obvious as your green and red pills. It refers to itself as a power. It is listed under powers.
I was hesitant to post this before but I just read the ToS and I think it's ok to post this by the limited rights granted under section 2. If not, my apologies in advance:
The class features are listed under "PALADIN POWERS". (The circling and arrow indicate that the contents of the right column are supposed to read as "under" the left column. I know you knew this already, but I just felt like illustrating it.)
Also note the highlighted text. In every case, Lay on Hands is referred to as a power. The only exception is when it is indirectly referred to as part of the class features that work "like powers". So that's like half an instance of saying it "like a power" vs. four saying it is a power.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 7:15PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2006
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When looking at my PHB (page 91) I see PALADIN POWERS and then CLASS FEATURES which says "The Paladin has three class features that work like powers: Channel Divinity, divine challenge, and lay on hands." then goes to explain these things, each one saying "Paladin Feature" in the upper right corner. On page 92 it starts with Level 1 At-Will Prayers and lists 4 of them, each saying "Paladin Attack 1" in the top right corner. It is explicitly defined as a class feature. Twice. It doesn't matter that it refers to itself as a power because that's a generic term in this case.
Look, you can make house rules for anything in the game. This thread is about advice and you've received a lot of advice - you don't have to take it and can continue on playing as you see fit.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 7:32PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2005
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For this example I will pick Lay on Hands.
Lay on Hands is a Paladin Class Feature. Usuable at will. It calls itself a power, but the word power has multiple meanings. So to decide what a power is we should try to find out what is a power for a paladin.
The Paladin Powers section says Paladin powers are called Prayers. The section on page 54 called "Power Types and Usage" tells us the types of powers. There it says Attack Powers, and Utility Powers are the types of powers.
Now, lets further examine Lay on Hands to discover if it is a power.
Is it a prayer? All paladin powers are prayers. No, it is not.
Is it an attack power or utility power, the only two types of powers there are? No, it is not. It is a Class Feature.
Everything that defines something as a power says it is not a power. The description uses the word power, but that does not define it as a power, since power has multiple meanings. It's a VERY VERY poor choice of wording.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 7:55PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2003
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Look, you can make house rules for anything in the game. This thread is about advice and you've received a lot of advice - you don't have to take it and can continue on playing as you see fit.
Heh keep in mind I'm not the OP, I just jumped into this because I feel that half-elves are getting the short end of the stick and that this is being misinterpreted.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 7:59PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2006
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No worries. However, you can't deny that the general opinion is that such class features are off limits. Basically run it as you will until an Errata... and even then you can keep going as you will.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 8:39PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2003
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No worries. However, you can't deny that the general opinion is that such class features are off limits. Basically run it as you will until an Errata... and even then you can keep going as you will.
I can deny it all I want. Just because more people disagree with me than agree with me doesn't mean that the majority is right 
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 8:43PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2005
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All definitions of powers point to Class Features not being powers. They do greatly resemble them, and some of them use the word power in the description, but that does not define what a power is.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 8:46PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2006
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I can deny it all I want. Just because more people disagree with me than agree with me doesn't mean that the majority is right
You can disagree with the majority opinion, but you cannot disagree with the fact that the majority of posts here disagree with your take on the rules.
Did I use too many 'disagrees' in that sentence?
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 9:10PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2003
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All definitions of powers point to Class Features not being powers. They do greatly resemble them, and some of them use the word power in the description, but that does not define what a power is.
Which definition of power are you talking about says that a class feature can't be a power?
You can disagree with the majority opinion, but you cannot disagree with the fact that the majority of posts here disagree with your take on the rules.
Did I use too many 'disagrees' in that sentence?
I will agree that the majority disagrees with me. I will not agree that that is conclusive proof that I am wrong, though.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 9:29PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2005
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The definition that states that the class powers have specific names ( Prayers, Exploits, and Spells) AND the definition that states there are two types of powers ( Attack and Utility).
The first is in each class description. The second is the powers section. These both help to show what they consider a power to be.
Oh, also on page 29 the Total Powers known chart happens to not include Class Features in the calculations, as if they didn't count as powers.
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