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3 years ago ::
May 28, 2010 - 8:03AM
#751
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2007
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Sorcs aren't really lacking feats, PPs and powers. Theyve just all been nerfed. Making your own won't do any good. If you really play in an optimized environment, simply remove some nerfs to make the character competitive.
Besides, all user-made content is always awful and underpowered junk because of the Design By Committee approach. Everyone is so worried about being overpowered, that the content is reduced to uselessness.
I'd say just wait for Arcane Power 2 to come out. Then you will have awesome new stuff to use! At least for a few months until it gets nerfed. ;-)
Joe's cynicism aside, more content is good, and 'design by committee' reducing effectiveness can be countered by expressly stated aims and firm decisions. I'm more concerned with Dragon ignoring useful submissions.
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3 years ago ::
May 28, 2010 - 8:33AM
#752
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2008
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I guess I need to try to be more positive, but the nerfage has really made me mad and bitter. Our Class Focus or whatever comes out and they give us a bunch of MELEE powers! WTF?!? Looking at paragon and epic encounter powers, it is kinda like the devs gave up and just made bigger bursts and slightly reflavored blasts. All the cool stuff is at heroic.
To be honest, very few truly powerful combinations are ever 'designed'. They are almost always clever 'exploits' (meant as 'not designed for this purpose' or 'unintended'). Almost every class in existence has builds that steal Twin Strike and abuse it. Sorcs using daggermaster was obviously bogus, but it worked. Ditto with Pit Fighter. Kensai is a continuation of the same vein. Same with everyone using radiant weapons and student of caiphan. Most other classes still have some goodies left though. Even Frost cheese was nerfed for AoE users like sorcs, but remains just as useful for other classes.
The only really good stuff sorcs got were Storm Sorcs ability to max crit dice and use an aoe at-will on a crit. Even then, that was amplified by Bloodiron daggers massive crit dice and daggermasters big crit range.
Honestly I didn't know Dragon accepted user-content. I thought it was pretty much just stuff that 1 guy dreamed up.
My Sorc Guide Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19649162/Joes_Sorcerer_Guide_AP_update_51509
My Genesi Wizard Blaster Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25082729/Miniguide_to_Genesi_LightningThunder_Blaster_Wizard_%2806-2010%29
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3 years ago ::
May 28, 2010 - 10:42AM
#753
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Date Joined:
Feb 26, 2007
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I don't blame you for being cynical. Honestly, I'm not a Sorc player myself. I've just got a player in my group who is, and her effective and interesting options are very, very few. They never had a whole lot, and they usually had to cheese their way into that, leading to hyper-aggressive nerfing from an errata team more concerned with quashing unexpected rules interactions for flavor reasons than the playability of a class.
Fortunately, Dragon does accept user submissions on occasion, and I would love a chance to design some effective and useful material for the class. It's got a lot of potential, but it just hasn't been developed properly.
My chances of getting it accepted and published are pretty slim, but y'know, it's worth a shot. It's not like there are dozens of people queueing up for the chance to make things right.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 07, 2010 - 12:16PM
#754
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I dunno, I was never into figuring out these über-effective combos, because they being there made every other way to play the game inferior, and over time, if enough people did it, the game-balance would slide to make these sort of builds the only ones really playable.
Sure, I want to play the game, and I want to play it well, but I don't want to feel like if I'm not pulling frost-weapon + wintertouched with my rogue, I'm being stupid, or variations thereof.
I like having a lot of choice, creating characters that I find fun and interesting, I feel that 4e was designed away from those choices that were plentiful in 3e and 3.5e, because it was becoming impossible to build any sort of cohesive game around the ridiculous combos people were putting together from all the available choices.
Don't get me wrong, I like reading over a thread like this, but I feel that using a daggermaster for a dagger-implement sorcerer was a bit over the line. I don't think other melee classes using pit fighter was, but it has now been nerfed in the same swing.
The exercise of exploiting every possible thing make the devs as a response limit choice and bring down combos that are merely interesting or good for a particular idea or build.
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3 years ago ::
Jul 08, 2010 - 1:42PM
#755
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2008
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I kind of agree with you, but we weren't left much choice.
Either find stuff to abuse, or stick with our basic intended choices and suck.
At least people had the choice to boost their character if they played in a tough or highly optimized environment. Now they dont.
My Sorc Guide Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19649162/Joes_Sorcerer_Guide_AP_update_51509
My Genesi Wizard Blaster Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25082729/Miniguide_to_Genesi_LightningThunder_Blaster_Wizard_%2806-2010%29
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3 years ago ::
Nov 01, 2010 - 1:55PM
#756
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Date Joined:
Jun 27, 2009
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Wow....i leave the game for a few months, come back, and the entire landscape has changed.....
So, a new group is forming that will be allowing me to use my old character. really good since i only got about 3 plays with her the last time.
on the negative side, when i pulled her up in Character Builder, a lot of the new rule changes pretty much killed off all the cool stuff i could do. And Joe had a great summary of exactly what has changed that make sorcs no longer fun.
With that in mind, i talked with the DM. It's a private game, mostly non-house ruled. The one overall rule is that the characters must be legal in Character Builder, but the spells/calculations are going to be based out of the printed books. This means that i can build characters that use staff of ruin, daggermaster, lasting frost, etc, as this guide originally intended
in order to do so, i had to revert character builder to an update prior to feb 2010. i am currently running the november 2009 update. This kills off a lot of cross breeds from the newer books, but it does allow all the old combos to work
I decided to ask wizards if there was a way of having the updates without the errata. I suggested to them the possibility of having individual errata removed or reverted by a checkmark in the character builder similar to how you can make certain magazines or books legal or illegal.
When talking with them, the CS manager told me that there have been several calls recently about the sorc nerfing and errata in general, with many people being unhappy about the changes, and that it is supposedly going to be brought up in meetings.
He also expressed his desire to want to keep me playing, which i'm glad for as i honestly would have not bothered if my DM was unwilling to use the original written rules...it just so happens that my DM hates errata in most cases too.
Point of all this is, maybe if enough people upset about the changes call in, they will consider either reversing them or replacing with something slightly more balanced and nowhere near as nerfing.
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