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Switch to Forum Live View Joe's Sorcerer Guide: AP update 5-15-09
4 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2009 - 11:21AM #21
MeNsInSaNa
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2007
Posts: 46

joemama1512 wrote:

Yep, this is Joe Mama-Nitzbrau's preliminary guide to the Sorcerer. And yes, I just noticed that I misspelled Sorcerer. Off to a bad start. :-(


You can still change the thread title... Just edit the first post (advanced mode).

Keep up the good work Joe!

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2009 - 12:15PM #22
Scaphism
Date Joined: Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 174

joemama1512 wrote:

Feats
* Leather Armor - ALL sorcs should take this immediately. It should always be a first pick at level 1.


I don't think this necessarily has to be the case. I think every Sorceror will want leather armor, but you might be able to wait on the feat. The character builder lets you wear leather without the feat - you gain 2 AC but lose 2 Reflex. (If this is not allowed, but a weird issue with the character builder, please ignore. I couldn't find anything specific about wearing armor you're not proficient in.)

For a dragon sorceror, especially a level 1, I consider that a no brainer trade. My Reflex is going to be somewhere around laughable no matter what I do, so I'll gladly take the hit to Reflex to pump my AC by the same amount. Only a few attacks are going to go after my Reflex compared to the number of AC attacks I'll take.

Besides that, good thoughts, but I'd shy away from recommending stat arrays at this point. There are still a lot of feats to consider. I think it'd be better to cluster feats into groups based on a common stat - e.g. if you have DEX, you may want to focus on TWF, TWD, and Arcane Reach. That's a good reason for a Dragon Sorc to start with 13 Dex rather than 13 Con.

Personally I don't see Hide proficiency, let alone specialization being mandatory given how valuable feats have become.

I think Wis will generally be a dump stat, with Staff Fighting being the only reason to invest any points into it, and it will probably be a rare build that wants staff fighting.

Thanks for the work, looking forward to seeing the rest.

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2009 - 12:22PM #23
sticks128
Date Joined: Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 1,120
Only read a little bit so far, but saw a couple of things

- Dragon Sorcerer's can get mileage out of Thunder powers, as the feats for Thunder attacks are really nice. The issue comes in that almost all Thunder powers attack Fort, which WotC has done a poor job with in MM 1. Hopefully MM 2 will fix this.

- On a 1, a Chaos Sorcerer must push all creatures within fives squares 1 square. You can't choose to push less, the path specifically says you must push, and specific overrides general.

Hope these help. Looking forward to seeing this develop!
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2009 - 1:59PM #24
Ualaa
Date Joined: May 2, 2003
Posts: 152

From: PHB I, page 212.

If you wear armor you're not proficient with, it makes you clumsy and uncoordinated: You take a -2 penalty to attack rolls and to your Reflex defense.


Leather is 2AC better then cloth, the difference remains 2 points at each magical bonus. 2AC might be extremely nice to have, when going toe to toe with a big nasty mob, but you're going toe to toe to deliver an attack, which then takes a -2 penalty to hit - somewhat counter productive. I personally would not wear leather for AC at the expense of To-Hit, when making close attacks.

Leather is a very useful feat to have for either variant, and as stated can lead to hide armor for the dragon mage. Depending on your build, implement expertise might be a better level 1 feat. A lot of builds go with toughness if they're playing up from level 1, and retrain it when they have a few levels under their belt.

Good info so far. It will be easier to read, especially with color coding. Consider the spoiler tags too, a lot of guides use them to good effect.

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2009 - 2:10PM #25
sticks128
Date Joined: Jan 30, 2005
Posts: 1,120

Ualaa wrote:

Leather is 2AC better then cloth, the difference remains 2 points at each magical bonus. 2AC might be extremely nice to have, when going toe to toe with a big nasty mob, but you're going toe to toe to deliver an attack, which then takes a -2 penalty to hit - somewhat counter productive. I personally would not wear leather for AC at the expense of To-Hit, when making close attacks.


I don't think he is suggesting you wear Leather before you gain Proficiency with it, I think he is just recommending proficiency at level 1.

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4 years ago  ::  Mar 23, 2009 - 2:17PM #26
anomalousman
Date Joined: Nov 16, 2005
Posts: 825
Nice guide thus far. I agree with your overall analysis. My sorc builds are all aimed at surviving through to paragon. And have a majority of defensive feats.

Disagreements:

It's not too important as a rogue MC can only sneak attack once, but since you're using your dagger for all your attacks, I'm pretty sure it can be used.

Arcane Reach for a chaos sorcerer looks like a fabulous feat. And it would be - in heroic tier. Unfortunately the real damage potential for chaos sorcs in paragon is in melee, with the spellfury feat. This means that they'll be positioned to manage close blasts/bursts, and close blasts/bursts will tend to be replaced by melee-based chaos bolts anyway. I'd planned to get Arcane Reach from the start, but by the time I was able to get it, I realised that its potential value had dwindled dramatically.

Dragonfrost is particularly good for a dragonborn dragon sorc with a splash of fighter MC - draconic arrogance makes it do Str damage again. They also penetrate cold resistance predictably, and can use Lasting Frost. That might be a small subset of possible sorcerers, but it's a natural place to end up, and it's an excellent at will in that instance.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2009 - 8:03AM #27
joemama1512
Date Joined: Apr 10, 2008
Posts: 3,288
Wait... which spellfury? Theres like 3 different ones.

The Wild one adds DEX bonus to adjacent, if you hit with an at will. Surely that is not it.

A dragon one gives you temporary HPs with an at will.

And arcane spellfury is Heroic tier and fairly unimpressive to me.


Can you please give me a reference for this? Thanks for the comment!


----

Also, where is Draconic Arrogance? I vaguely remember that one somewhere, but forget what it does and where its from.


-0---

I think you are right about the sneak attack. Ill modify that part, as I think it works too.
My Sorc Guide Link:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19649162/Joes_Sorcerer_Guide_AP_update_51509

My Genesi Wizard Blaster Link:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25082729/Miniguide_to_Genesi_LightningThunder_Blaster_Wizard_%2806-2010%29
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2009 - 8:37AM #28
Aeloric
Date Joined: Jan 12, 2008
Posts: 92
Draconic Arrogance is in Martial Power.

I do agree with another Sorcerer Guide Writer about picking Spitting Cobra Stance (Ranger Daily 5 Power in Martial Power as well).

Combine this with multiple salves of Power (Adv. Vault) and you are Spitting Dragonfrost every encounter.

Sweet.
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2009 - 8:37AM #29
Colgar
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2008
Posts: 29
Anomalousman does indeed mean wild spellfury, dealing Dex damage to adjacent. With use of sorcerous blade channeling / close blasts etc it can be a significant source of damage, escalating a lot if you start getting multiple hits, and have multiple adjacent enemies.

Draconic Arrogance is in Martial power, and requires Dragonborn (clearly), and fighter (MC). Just adds strength mod damage on a push, so can potentially bump up dragonfrost above acid orb basic attacks.

Edit: beaten by a few seconds :p
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4 years ago  ::  Mar 24, 2009 - 11:12AM #30
Khashi
Date Joined: Mar 24, 2009
Posts: 133

joemama1512 wrote:

Wait... which spellfury? Theres like 3 different ones.

The Wild one adds DEX bonus to adjacent, if you hit with an at will. Surely that is not it.


Actually, it's precisely that one. The combo becomes even more powerful with Tooth of Chaos (I think that's the name, it's a dagger that let's you treat your attack roll as either even or odd, your choice). If you're surrounded by 3 baddies (not unlikely for Chaos sorc, given teleporting and sliding), you could hit 3 times with Chaos Bolt, dealing to the 3 targets (in epic):

2d10 + Cha + Dex*4 + 4 + Implement bonus

Toss in psychic lock and arcane spellfury, and those 3 targets get -2 to hit and -1 to all defenses (against your attacks) until the end of your next turn. Not bad for an at-will that targets Will.

Edit: Combine with entropic whirlwind [lvl 29 daily] and cloud of darkness [drow racial], and that round will be very painful.
Edit 2: Actually, the damage above is only for the main target. The other two take

1d6 + Dex*3

Unless there's an error in the Char Builder (could be), and the secondary damage rolls also benefit from Dex and Cha modifiers. Anyone have some insight into why this is or isn't the case?

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