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Apr 1, 2012 -- 3:30PM, zelink551 wrote:

Except you're guide doesn't help anyone, it misinforms.

(Content removed)You are making this accusation because you're upset that you and I do not agree on the priority of powers. 

Casual observers can look at the list and see many notable powers. 
Experienced players can learn another perspective. 

It is not right to try to block my input just because you do not agree with it. 

There is no way to make a best list of powers without it being partially opinion. Pretending other guides are not partially opinion based is foolish. 
Damage or Daze
AOE or Highest Single Target Damage
Everyone is picking the values they appreciate effects, targets, accuracy, damage, and more. 
The game was designed to incorporate non-linear functions. 

I do not claim that my list is not biased. I put right on it that it is my list.

(ORC_Chaos: Edited-Baiting is against the Code of Conduct) 

Nobody argues that the guides aren't opinion. 

But its informed opinion backed by people willing to show their work and go into great detail about why they hold their opinions when asked.  And no powers exist in a vaccum.  They all have to be compared in the context class features, other powers, potential feats, items, etc.

Show your work in detail, make sure you have all areas covered, and I doubt many people will have a problem with the guide being included.  For instance if you divided your book into different sections (each divided up into at will/encounter/daily): best single target damage weapon powers, best single target damage implemenet powers, best single target damage immediate powers, best save granting powers, best making the enemy attack someone else powers, etc..  And then went about discussing why a certain number of powers was the best at each catagory.

As is, I don't think it should be put up yet.

Apr 3, 2012 -- 11:45AM, zelink551 wrote:

Your list has no rhyme or reason, and is remarkably unhelpful as it doesn't add to the body of knowledge, nor aid anyone. It's random, and so because of that, misinforms rather than helps...

(content removed)
The reasons are stated clearly next to each power.
There is also a section noting debates in the thread.  
Your accusations are intentionally misleading and trolling.

Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:29AM, DuelistDelSol wrote:

Just saying that Flame Spiral is good doesn't mean anything to someone wanting to make a Sorcerer.

I agree. If someone knows they want to make a Sorcerer, then they should check the Sorcerer specific build.

Apr 3, 2012 -- 5:29AM, DuelistDelSol wrote:

What does your list try to do?

It does what lists do. The person viewing the list decides on the utility. It's can be just another quick reference. 
Not everyone has heard of Mindlink. It is going to be on the great or best soon.

I have some personal comments regarding the lists formulation.

I am an electrical engineer, and rather proficient with math. I was not a fan of Calc II or as I like to call it "all the painful ways to perform integrals".
I like Vining and Kowalski's statistical methods for engineers (2nd edition). However, I made the list to have fun, and so therefore I do take a few short cuts. I use asymptotes often. I find that the asymtotic analysis is particularly useful in approximating the minimum/maximum an encounter will last, the damage a team should output during that time, and other factors that would last the whole encounter. I also do not get into statistical analysis of the hit percentage. This is because I expect that players will use build guides to develop their character's accuracy.

The list I have made is my list. I am not claiming that the list is omega. I do not feel compelled to show all my work. I will review powers for the list, and give the reasons they are determined to be better than others. I am very insulted that someone who unhappy with the difference in my opinion and theirs tries to call my list random. It is very offensive considering the effort I put into it. Developing is much harder than criticizing afterall. 

I have given in on some parts of my list. I removed misdirected strike from the best part. I believe that it should be there. It is very hard to quantify what marking an enemy to a fighter 15 squares away is worth. I conceded that it is situational to the point that it can not be best. It is very dm dependent much like Riposte. I have held fast on flame spiral. Powers in my list do not exist in a vacuum. Nobody has stated any unique synergies that the power offers. The defenders of the power so far have merely said my list sucks or that it is random. I continue to work with contributors on powers like Mindlink and Grasping Claws to find their synergies. 

I have heard claims that the list spreads misinformation. This is untrue. The list contains reasons why I believe the powers are good enough to be listed. People can read those, and make their own determination. My list does not exist in a vacuum. Particularly, if my list is in the Char Op list it is easier for viewers of the list to gather more opinions. 

TL;DR - Don't criticize blindly. Either support why you think some powers are good, or state why you think some powers are not good.

(ORC_Chaos: Edited-Baiting is against the Code of Conduct) 

I've removed content from this thread because baiting, trolling and personal attacks are a violation of the Code of Conduct.  You can review the Code of Conduct here.  


ORC_Chaos