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Flag mr_virus May 12, 2013 7:22 PM PDT

May 11, 2013 -- 10:49AM, notTrogdor wrote:

Would summons still act on their intrinsic natures and the like if the summoner is dead or unconscious? 



Yes but you would not be able to dismiss the summon, so it would probably end up dead as well. It would not be wise to be making death saves, and then start losing healing surges. If you are out of surges, and you lose a healing surge because your summoned monster died, then you take a healing surge worth of damage. If you are already making death saves, you wont be for much longer.

Flag NotThe1 May 12, 2013 11:42 PM PDT
Posted this a few pages back, but nobody answered. Reposting it just once.

For a Ranger|Cleric who will be using Light Blades, is Spiked Chain Training better than Rapier + Short Sword?

Spiked Chain Training gives you reach, and the convenience of maintaining only a single weapon (and maybe more consistent damage early on?). Rapier + Short Sword give you a multiclass feat (because you're not taking Spiked Chain Training), but have no reach and force you to maintain two weapons. Am I missing anything? Maybe the question should be is Disciple of Divine Wrath/Battle Awareness that much better than reach + convenience?

Flag ThatWasTotallyNinja May 13, 2013 12:02 AM PDT
It's hard to answer because it's very build-dependent. Do you have a particular need for the MC feat? If not, Spiked Chain Training is great. If so, then perhaps you'd want to look at getting proficiency in a double sword, if you don't want to maintain two weapons.

There isn't a clear-cut answer where one is definitely better than the other, though I hate maintaining two weapons so I'd pick Double Sword over the Rapier + Short Sword combo at least.
Flag thespaceinvader May 13, 2013 12:41 AM PDT
MC Spiked Chain is probably the best weapon for a Ranger|Cleric, but it costs you MC Fighter and all the goodies that go with it, so it's more-or-less a wash.  The reach and the not having to double pay your weapon upgrades are the most important parts of it.
Flag NotThe1 May 13, 2013 10:54 AM PDT

Thanks for the answers!

Flag mr_virus May 13, 2013 4:31 PM PDT
When a Revenant monk with Stunning Palm active drops below zero, can they choose to be "dazed" and stay up, even though Stunning Palm says they can not be dazed?

Second, when an Avenger with the Ironwrought theme uses Inevitable Strike, would they roll four D20s against their Oath target?
Flag LordOfWeasels May 13, 2013 4:45 PM PDT

May 13, 2013 -- 4:31PM, mr_virus wrote:

When a Revenant monk with Stunning Palm active drops below zero, can they choose to be "dazed" and stay up, even though Stunning Palm says they can not be dazed?




You have a choice:  Be dazed, or be unconscious.  Not dazed?  Unconscious.

May 13, 2013 -- 4:31PM, mr_virus wrote:

Second, when an Avenger with the Ironwrought theme uses Inevitable Strike, would they roll four D20s against their Oath target?




Ironwrought:  " Make the attack roll twice. "
OOE:  "When you make a melee attack against the target and the target is the only enemy adjacent to you, you make two attack rolls and use either result.
If another effect lets you roll twice and use the higher result when making an attack roll, this power has no effect on that attack. If an effect forces you to roll twice and use the lower result when making an attack roll, this power has no effect on that attack either."

Ironwrought doesn't force you to use either roll, so RAW appears to be... "make the attack roll twice".

Not four times, not "roll and reroll twice".  The fact that you have TWO things saying "make the attack roll twice" doesn't mean that you get to roll four times, any more than two things saying "crit on 19" mean crit on 18.

I would totally let the Avenger choose which of his "make the attack roll twice" powers to treat as authoritative, though.  And that means Inevitable Strike.

Flag Keithric May 13, 2013 4:56 PM PDT
Hmm, could you do:
Avenger, roll twice getting, say
5 and 17
Now trigger Inevitable Strike on the 17 attack roll, making two attack rolls for that one roll, getting say 17 and 13, and getting your extra damage? 
Flag LordOfWeasels May 13, 2013 4:57 PM PDT

May 13, 2013 -- 4:56PM, Keithric wrote:

Hmm, could you do:
Avenger, roll twice getting, say
5 and 17
Now trigger Inevitable Strike on the 17 attack roll, making two attack rolls for that one roll, getting say 17 and 13, and getting your extra damage? 




Inevitable Strike has to be used before the attack roll to be meaningful.

Flag Keithric May 13, 2013 6:33 PM PDT
And yet, the trigger requires an attack roll. An avenger does make those, all the same.

In other news, Inevitable Strike is problematically written. 
Flag LordOfWeasels May 13, 2013 6:36 PM PDT

May 13, 2013 -- 6:33PM, Keithric wrote:

And yet, the trigger requires an attack roll. An avenger does make those, all the same.

In other news, Inevitable Strike is problematically written. 




In order for "when you make an attack roll, do X and receive Y because of the results of that attack roll" to be meaningful, it has to be used in advance.  Same as the Thief's Backstab.

And yes, no argument, it should have been better-written, or errata'd, especially since the only people who can see it AT ALL are the people who've paid for updates - but "fixing what's unclear or broken" is not what WotC cares about.

Still, I think the best possible RAW and RAI match:  "Must use before attacking, don't stack".

Flag Keithric May 13, 2013 6:51 PM PDT
Sounds good.
Flag CliveDauthi May 14, 2013 10:31 AM PDT

Feat: Mark of Making [Dragonmark]
Benefit: You have mastered the Enchant Magic Item ritual and can perform it as if you were two levels higher.
You can make alchemical items as though you had the Alchemist feat and were two levels higher.
You can master and perform rituals in the creation category and the Make Whole ritual as if you had the Ritual Caster feat.

Just to clarify; this gives you the Enchant Magic Item and Make Whole ritual for free? When I added it to my sheet on DDI those two rituals didn't show up
in my ritual book. 
 

*Font fixed* 

Flag Fardiz May 14, 2013 10:32 AM PDT
Ow, font.
Flag Doobledigoop May 14, 2013 1:05 PM PDT
Enchant Magic Item is free, Make Whole isn't (you master the first one, you can master the second one).
Flag CliveDauthi May 14, 2013 1:20 PM PDT
Thank you!
Flag Be3Al2 May 14, 2013 2:33 PM PDT

May 14, 2013 -- 10:31AM, CliveDauthi wrote:

Feat: Mark of Making [Dragonmark]
Benefit: You have mastered the Enchant Magic Item ritual and can perform it as if you were two levels higher.
You can make alchemical items as though you had the Alchemist feat and were two levels higher.
You can master and perform rituals in the creation category and the Make Whole ritual as if you had the Ritual Caster feat.

Just to clarify; this gives you the Enchant Magic Item and Make Whole ritual for free? When I added it to my sheet on DDI those two rituals didn't show up
in my ritual book. 
 

*Font fixed* 


I won't say anything about Enchant magic item, but for the Make Whole ritual (and rituals in the creation category) you only meet the prerequisites for mastering them.

Flag elsar May 15, 2013 1:14 AM PDT
I try to reabuilt and understand the davy_jones build and have two questions.

First one: Often in paladin builds i see that they choose "White Lotus Riposte" in combination with Bards Dilettante to obtain this feat. A paladin does not have that much arcane at-will attack. The really only arcane at-will for a paladin i can find are the Bard Attacks obtained via "Dilettante". Are there any other synergies i overlooked or are these Bard Attacks the only meaningful attacks?

Second question: Does the -3 Attack Penalty via Enfeebling Strike & Power of Madness stack with the -2 Attack Penalty via Psychic Lock ?
Flag Zathris May 15, 2013 2:30 AM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 1:14AM, elsar wrote:

I try to reabuilt and understand the davy_jones build and have two questions.

First one: Often in paladin builds i see that they choose "White Lotus Riposte" in combination with Bards Dilettante to obtain this feat. A paladin does not have that much arcane at-will attack. The really only arcane at-will for a paladin i can find are the Bard Attacks obtained via "Dilettante". Are there any other synergies i overlooked or are these Bard Attacks the only meaningful attacks?

Second question: Does the -3 Attack Penalty via Enfeebling Strike & Power of Madness stack with the -2 Attack Penalty via Psychic Lock ?



I don't know why you changed so much of Alcestis's build without understanding it, much less actually reading it...
1. "WLR still works because Power of Arcana adds the Arcana keyword to Virtuous Strike". WLR and Bardic Dilettante have nothing to do with each other, except you need to MC bard to meet the pre-reqs of WLR. Currently, MC Binder is a better choice.
2. Yes, they stack.

Flag elsar May 15, 2013 2:36 AM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 2:30AM, Zathris wrote:


I don't know why you changed so much of Alcestis's build without understanding it, much less actually reading it...
1. "WLR still works because Power of Arcana adds the Arcana keyword to Virtuous Strike". WLR and Bardic Dilettante have nothing to do with each other, except you need to MC bard to meet the pre-reqs of WLR. Currently, MC Binder is a better choice.



I can tell you why, cause the basic build i worked with was imperii's not alcestis'. Imperii used Power of Madness and Power of the Sea and i wanted to understand how he is using WLR with the lack of the arcana keyword in his build.

thanks for answering nr. 2

Flag thespaceinvader May 15, 2013 2:37 AM PDT
Also, Dilettante is not (usually) referring to the bard MC feat, it's the Half-Elf's racial feature.  Most people who use it in this context use it to take the Warlock's Eldritch Strike, which is a very useful Charisma-based Arcane Melee Basic Attack.
Flag barnesybaby May 15, 2013 3:33 AM PDT
Hi,

Which class/classes do you think would be best suited to using the spear?

Thanks :-) 
Flag svendj May 15, 2013 3:38 AM PDT
Basic fighter, or Slayer if you're optimizing. Spear Expertise and Surprising Charge make every charge you do quite lethal. See the top link in my sig for more info on charge optimization.
Flag barnesybaby May 15, 2013 3:41 AM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 3:38AM, svendj wrote:

Basic fighter, or Slayer if you're optimizing. Spear Expertise and Surprising Charge make every charge you do quite lethal. See the top link in my sig for more info on charge optimization.


Thanks. I've read pretty much all of the character optimisation guides from the bulk thread that was posted and as a result I can't remmeber which had all the mentions about using the spear with a particular class.

I'll read up on Slayers :-) 

Flag Fardiz May 15, 2013 3:48 AM PDT
Do you mean an actual spear, or a member of the spear group? The gouge will generally come top in the latter case, though some leader builds get quite a bit out of the greatspear.
Flag barnesybaby May 15, 2013 3:52 AM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 3:48AM, Fardiz wrote:

Do you mean an actual spear, or a member of the spear group? The gouge will generally come top in the latter case, though some leader builds get quite a bit out of the greatspear.


A member of the spear group. So Great spear, Glaive, Trident etc. I want to build a character with a spear-type weapon as it's primary melee but am not sure which classes would get the most benefits (through powers) out of such a weapon choice.

Thanks :-) 

Flag svendj May 15, 2013 4:03 AM PDT
Draeven Marauder (Dragon Magazine 365) is a nice paragon path for spear users. It doubles your crit range at level 11, and grants you a free MBA at level 16 when you crit. It also gives you a lot of mobility. 
Flag Fardiz May 15, 2013 4:08 AM PDT
Only fighter powers differ by weapon, afaik.
Flag thespaceinvader May 15, 2013 4:56 AM PDT
But classes which like reach often do very well with the Greatspear, so many leader classes, in particular.

But yes, if you want to do damage pure and simple, spear op is more or less gouge-charge op.
Flag Celerian01 May 15, 2013 7:20 AM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 4:08AM, Fardiz wrote:

Only fighter powers differ by weapon, afaik.


I think some Iron Soul-oriented monk powers do, as well.

Flag Zathris May 15, 2013 12:50 PM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 7:20AM, Celerian01 wrote:

May 15, 2013 -- 4:08AM, Fardiz wrote:

Only fighter powers differ by weapon, afaik.


I think some Iron Soul-oriented monk powers do, as well.



Simple Weapon Cleric Powers as well.

Builds that use Spears:
Anyone who charges and isn't an Executioner or Scout
Weapon-based Leaders (Warlord, Artificer, Runepriest?)
Druids
PM/PG that don't also want HBO.

Flag MagnifloriousPhule May 15, 2013 8:34 PM PDT
How many things can grab a PC at once?
Flag Zathris May 15, 2013 9:28 PM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 8:34PM, MagnifloriousPhule wrote:

How many things can grab a PC at once?



∞ effectively

Flag MagnifloriousPhule May 15, 2013 9:30 PM PDT
Thanks
Flag bullgaria May 15, 2013 11:42 PM PDT
Does the warlord OA provided by Ninth Legion Student allow him to chose some other creature other than the one triggering the OA for the ally to attack. ("OSHI...look at these guys! They are walking all over the place like they don't even care...YOU! Attack someone, anyone!...that one will do.")

BONUS: Assuming that is true, how hard would the DM slap me if I combined it with the Demon-Bound PP? (allies trigger OA from you at lvl16 while bloodied) ....If not too hard, is there a better place to get benefit?
Flag Fardiz May 16, 2013 2:42 AM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 9:28PM, Zathris wrote:

May 15, 2013 -- 8:34PM, MagnifloriousPhule wrote:

How many things can grab a PC at once?



∞ effectively




Well ropers grab at reach 10, the maximum number of ropers who could grab the female paladin at once would be (21*21-1) = 441.

Didn't I see a Japanese film about that once?

Flag Xaspian May 16, 2013 2:56 AM PDT

May 15, 2013 -- 11:42PM, bullgaria wrote:

Does the warlord OA provided by Ninth Legion Student allow him to chose some other creature other than the one triggering the OA for the ally to attack. ("OSHI...look at these guys! They are walking all over the place like they don't even care...YOU! Attack someone, anyone!...that one will do.")

BONUS: Assuming that is true, how hard would the DM slap me if I combined it with the Demon-Bound PP? (allies trigger OA from you at lvl16 while bloodied) ....If not too hard, is there a better place to get benefit?




By my interpretation, you would have to target the creature triggering the opportunity attack with Direct the Strike, as nothing about Ninth Legion Student changes the fact that your opportunity attack targets the triggering enemy. If my reading it correct, this would mean that RAW, it shouldn't normally work at all for warlords, as Direct the Strike targets an ally, who don't normally provoke opportunity attacks. However, in combination with Demon-Bound, you can target your ally with your opportunity Direct the Strike, it should work... I think?

My interpretation could be incorrect, so I'd suggest waiting for someone to correct or confirm it.

Flag Fardiz May 16, 2013 3:03 AM PDT
"If you are using a shield, you can use a power associated with this feat in place of a melee basic attack when making an opportunity attack."

It replaces everything, including the target line. So you use DtS as normal and there no need for it to be against the target that proc'd the OA. 
Flag CliveDauthi May 16, 2013 6:51 AM PDT
The Vistani Heritage Feat says among other things that you master the Vistani Blooding ritual
But after looking through the mag it came from I couldn't find that ritual written down anywhere.
Anyone know what this ritual does?   
Flag Lathaen-V May 16, 2013 8:00 AM PDT
Anyone else getting the download icon for this months dragon magazine, only to have it download a 1.5kb file of nothing?
Flag Zathris May 16, 2013 12:06 PM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 6:51AM, CliveDauthi wrote:

The Vistani Heritage Feat says among other things that you master the Vistani Blooding ritual
But after looking through the mag it came from I couldn't find that ritual written down anywhere.
Anyone know what this ritual does?   



It's an entirely fluff Ritual.
"All those invited to join a Vistani clan go through a ritual known as “Blooding” Usually, children go through “Blooding” when born or when they are ready to commit to being part of the clan. Outsiders who do a great service to or for a Vistani clan might be invited to become “one of the blood”  through a Blooding ritual."

Flag FLAvatar May 16, 2013 12:07 PM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 8:00AM, Lathaen-V wrote:

Anyone else getting the download icon for this months dragon magazine, only to have it download a 1.5kb file of nothing?


423 isn't out yet, the big red download button is fibbing at the moment

there is a post over in the DDI forum explaining they hope to have it as early as tomorrow. 


 

Flag CliveDauthi May 16, 2013 12:29 PM PDT
Thanks Zarthris!
Next Q- since I got called out on it want, to get it straight.

Playing a Gensai Blaster Wizard; MC Swordmage; with a Frost Weapon (converets all damage to cold)

Elemental Empowerment- gives powers with certin elemetnal keywords (cold) damage bouns = to STR

I'v read a few places doing this with a lighting weapon; claiming that it opens up powers to be buffed by Elemental Empowerment (but it dosn't add keywords just damage output type) Has there been something added that has since made this invalid? It was my understanding this was what Gensai Blasters did (find a way to convert damage so to get Eempowerment buff)

What am I missing here, was told it dosn't work on magic missle; but would it work with Force Orb?   

  
  
Flag CUBPHILDND May 16, 2013 12:45 PM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 12:29PM, CliveDauthi wrote:


What am I missing here, was told it dosn't work on magic missle; but would it work with Force Orb?




You were also told the reason it doesn't work with Magic Missile: Magic Missile lacks a damage roll.  Elemental Empowerment says, "When you use a wizard power that has the cold, fire, lightning, or thunder keyword, you add your Strength modifier to damage rolls" (my emphasis).  Force Orb has a damage roll; Magic Missile does not.

Flag CliveDauthi May 16, 2013 12:52 PM PDT

I understand that, what I was getting at was this


1-      Elemental Empowerment requires a Keyword (cold/fire/ex.) in the spell to activate


2-      Frost Weapon doesn’t add a keyword; it just changes the damage type an attack does.


In changing the damage type, does Frost Weapon add the Cold Keyword to an attack? I’t wasn’t explicitly stated so I just assumed it didn’t.


Sorry if my question was vague.

Flag ThatWasTotallyNinja May 16, 2013 12:53 PM PDT
Yes, it does. Adding/removing damage types will also add/remove those keywords.
Flag CliveDauthi May 16, 2013 1:27 PM PDT
Ah, Thank you.
Flag Fardiz May 16, 2013 2:22 PM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 12:07PM, FLAvatar wrote:

May 16, 2013 -- 8:00AM, Lathaen-V wrote:

Anyone else getting the download icon for this months dragon magazine, only to have it download a 1.5kb file of nothing?


423 isn't out yet, the big red download button is fibbing at the moment

there is a post over in the DDI forum explaining they hope to have it as early as tomorrow. 


 




Your avatar really surprised me there...

Flag Mommy_was_an_Orc May 16, 2013 2:35 PM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 2:22PM, Fardiz wrote:

May 16, 2013 -- 12:07PM, FLAvatar wrote:

May 16, 2013 -- 8:00AM, Lathaen-V wrote:

Anyone else getting the download icon for this months dragon magazine, only to have it download a 1.5kb file of nothing?


423 isn't out yet, the big red download button is fibbing at the moment

there is a post over in the DDI forum explaining they hope to have it as early as tomorrow. 


 




Your avatar really surprised me there...




Wrecan passed away in April.

Flag Fardiz May 16, 2013 2:43 PM PDT
I know, that's why seeing someone with that picture posting surprised me.
Flag Mommy_was_an_Orc May 16, 2013 2:47 PM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 2:43PM, Fardiz wrote:

I know, that's why seeing someone with that picture posting surprised me.




Not the only person with it - I've seen it on several posters.

Flag Fardiz May 16, 2013 2:53 PM PDT
Fair enough.
Flag Brother_Griften May 16, 2013 5:21 PM PDT
Bonus to damage rolls.

I have seen conflicting answers.  Let's say I have a power going that gives me +2 power bonus to damage rolls until the end of the encounter.  Does this bonus also apply to things like quarry, sneak attack, etc?  Or just the roll of the power that triggers those things?

-BG
Flag Noctaem May 16, 2013 5:56 PM PDT
no, the +2 bonus would only be added once to the damage roll.  Quarry, Sneak attack, etc is extra damage which is added to the damage roll.  You don't add anything to sneak attack, sneak attack adds itself to a damage roll for example.

If you have the following damage for an attack:

1d8+6

And you can add your sneak attack of 2d6 if you have CA and you meet the requirement you then get:

1d8+6+2d6

so you roll 1d8 and 2d6 and then add 6 to whatever the result is for those dice.
Flag notTrogdor May 16, 2013 5:57 PM PDT
Things like Hunter's Quarry and Sneak Attack are themselves bonuses to damage rolls. Static bonuses don't affect dice individually, they apply to the total roll.

So if your damage roll is 1[w] + 5 damage without sneak attack, it becomes 2d6 + 1[w] + 5. With a +2 power bonus to damage rolls, it becomes 2d6 + 1[w] + 7
Flag CUBPHILDND May 16, 2013 6:08 PM PDT
I'm not sure, but I suspect that Brother_Griften might have intended to ask a more difficult question: does extra damage count as introducing a damage roll when appended to a power that otherwise would lack one?  For example, a paragon wizard Student of Malediction adds the Cold keyword to Magic Missile via Arcane Admixture and then takes Icy Heart.  He curses his target and then casts Magic Missile.  Does he get the +3 feat bonus to his Magic Missile damage?

I'm not sure that there's a clear RAW answer to this question.
Flag Koshinuke May 16, 2013 6:18 PM PDT
A damage roll is very clear.  By RAW(RC pg 222) "... a damage roll: a roll of dice to determine damage." 

So sneak attack/hunter's quarry/MKJ L16 feature/Claw Gloves are a damage roll.  By RAW, they are extra damage and extra damage is considered part of the original power.

However, you can expect massive table variation on damage rolls.  Even this answer is going to spark a debate even though it is the correct RAW answer.  It is not accepted on CharOp because it would rapidly change everything.  For example, adding a damage roll to each attack for Brutal Barrage, thereby getting all the +damage roll modifiers.  Or getting a damage roll on Flurry of Blows and getting those modifiers.

In the example given about MM+Warlock's Curse+Icy Heart+AA:Cold, by RAW it would get the +3.  By RAI and the ruling of most of the people on these boards, no it wouldn't.

Ask your DM.  You will not get a clear answer from CharOp because it would really change the game if you followed RAW for damage rolls.     
Flag monkey2k May 16, 2013 6:19 PM PDT
1) Are there any rulings that prevent you from marking yourself?
Ignore how hard it is to do and why anyone would want to do it for now (it's for joke-op).

2) If a feature allows me to add an extra 1d6 fire damage to an attack, does the attack gain the fire keyword?
My guess is that it counts as the attack gaining a damage type, and thus getting the keyword, but I'd like to make sure.
Flag Koshinuke May 16, 2013 6:23 PM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 6:19PM, monkey2k wrote:

1) Are there any rulings that prevent you from marking yourself?
Ignore how hard it is to do and why anyone would want to do it for now (it's for joke-op).

2) If a feature allows me to add an extra 1d6 fire damage to an attack, does the attack gain the fire keyword?
My guess is that it counts as the attack gaining a damage type, and thus getting the keyword, but I'd like to make sure.




1) I think would fall under "bag of rats" rule somehow.

2) RC pg 115. Adding a damage type adds the keyword for that damage type.  Adding 1d6 extra fire damage is adding fire damage therefore adding the fire keyword. 

Flag monkey2k May 16, 2013 6:26 PM PDT
Thanks for the quick reply, I'll sniff around and ask my DM if it falls under the bag of rats rule.
Flag Undrhil May 17, 2013 11:06 AM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 6:26PM, monkey2k wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll sniff around and ask my DM if it falls under the bag of-
rats rule.




Unless you frequently make attacks which include yourself, you will basically be giving yourself a -2 penalty to attack rolls by marking yourself.  Some of the mark punishments spell out that a marked "enemy" is the target of the punishment, so you might not be able to punish yourself, either.  Read the wording of your chosen class's mark punishment to make sure it is for "creatures" and not "enemies".

Flag CliveDauthi May 17, 2013 12:15 PM PDT
Is there a way to use Arcana in place of Nature

Trying to Max Arcana for a Ritual User build, do need a way to use that number insted of rolling my Nature; but haven't been able to find a way yet.

Already checked the Arcana check optimization & Comprehensive Skill Substitution List threads
Flag Fox_Frost May 17, 2013 3:11 PM PDT
Is there a guide for optimizing in Heroic tier? What classes shine here? I need to make a level 8 character and have no idea where to begin.
Flag Brother_Griften May 17, 2013 4:37 PM PDT

May 16, 2013 -- 6:18PM, Koshinuke wrote:

A damage roll is very clear.  By RAW(RC pg 222) "... a damage roll: a roll of dice to determine damage." 

So sneak attack/hunter's quarry/MKJ L16 feature/Claw Gloves are a damage roll.  By RAW, they are extra damage and extra damage is considered part of the original power.

However, you can expect massive table variation on damage rolls.  Even this answer is going to spark a debate even though it is the correct RAW answer.  It is not accepted on CharOp because it would rapidly change everything.  For example, adding a damage roll to each attack for Brutal Barrage, thereby getting all the +damage roll modifiers.  Or getting a damage roll on Flurry of Blows and getting those modifiers.

In the example given about MM+Warlock's Curse+Icy Heart+AA:Cold, by RAW it would get the +3.  By RAI and the ruling of most of the people on these boards, no it wouldn't.

Ask your DM.  You will not get a clear answer from CharOp because it would really change the game if you followed RAW for damage rolls.     




Yeah, I was asking for scenarios like this.  So RAW says he would get it?

Flag pinkisthenewred May 17, 2013 4:49 PM PDT
Yes, but just don't do it.
Flag babcock3030 May 17, 2013 7:41 PM PDT

May 17, 2013 -- 3:11PM, Fox_Frost wrote:

Is there a guide for optimizing in Heroic tier? What classes shine here? I need to make a level 8 character and have no idea where to begin.


The answers depend on what class you want to play. There are guides for each class on the forum. 

But the basics: choose a race that gives a bonus to your class' key ability scores, start with a pre-racial 16 or 18 in your main attack stat, pick feats that make your accuracy better (expertise feats, for example) and that enhance what your class features do (backstabber for a rogue).

Flag bullgaria May 17, 2013 8:55 PM PDT
Is the encounter-long slide effect of Nightmare Vortex (lvl 5 battlemind daily) boostable in any way? (all I want is +1, Controlling Advantage is not an option)

As far as I understand, it's not actually part of the attack, is it? (otherwise Rushing Cleats would solve my problem nicely)
Flag Silverseeker May 18, 2013 9:20 AM PDT
Would Ensorcelled Blade trigger Mark of Storm for Storm Sorcerers? The power doesn't deal the typed damage when I use it, so I'm not sure if it would gain the Lightning keyword on use.
Flag Celerian01 May 18, 2013 9:35 AM PDT
Pretty sure that works, since Ensorcelled Blade still has the Thunder and Lightning keywords if you're a storm sorcerer, and Mark of Storm says "thunder or lightning power," not "damage."
Flag xxalex May 19, 2013 1:39 AM PDT
new party, i will be the most experienced player, the others are playing:

fighter sword and board
halfling rogue
sorcerer
cleric
psion(but he isnt really sure yet)

what could be a good addition to this party? 
Flag RayjeEliwan May 19, 2013 2:14 AM PDT
I remember reading that there's something hinky about the RAW on Speaker of Xaos's level 11 power, but unlike Academy Master (where I can totally see what's wrong), I don't see what the issue is. Did I simply imagine the discussion on the problem, or is there something unfortunate in the power that I just don't get? 
Flag Undrhil May 19, 2013 2:27 AM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 1:39AM, xxalex wrote:

new party, i will be the most experienced player, the others are playing:

fighter sword and board
halfling rogue
sorcerer
cleric
psion(but he isnt really sure yet)

what could be a good addition to this party? 




There are lots of options open to the sixth member of that party.  Since they have all the bases covered, they could go with most any role.  I think most people on these boards are going to say go with a Striker, but there is no reason to necessarily go that route.  A second leader might be good to have, such as a Warlord who hands out attacks like gold stars to kindergarteners. 

Flag baldhermit May 19, 2013 2:29 AM PDT
I would go with an enabler or make sure there is at least one controller.

Failing that, you do not go wrong with a striker that does have an MBA. 
Flag Zathris May 19, 2013 3:17 AM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 2:14AM, RayjeEliwan wrote:

I remember reading that there's something hinky about the RAW on Speaker of Xaos's level 11 power, but unlike Academy Master (where I can totally see what's wrong), I don't see what the issue is. Did I simply imagine the discussion on the problem, or is there something unfortunate in the power that I just don't get? 



The damage roll (and it is a separate damage roll) doesn't really get many modifiers added to it since it's part of the e11 power and not the triggering power (unlike Echoing Weapon), so that makes it slightly weak as it lacks an accessory keyword, isn't a ranged or melee attack, and has the Elemental source.

Flag gandrasch May 19, 2013 5:29 AM PDT
Hi there,

I 'm creating a character with the bookish barbarian build and have two free feat slots (4 and 6) because I get some of these feats for free. What could you recommend? Cunning Stalker?
Flag DontEatRawHagis May 19, 2013 6:39 AM PDT
Hello, non-optimizing player in a group of optimizers.

Playing a Thri-Kreen Battlemind(lvl 4). Group has Ranger(lvl 4), Sorcerer(lvl 1), Wizard(lvl 2), Barbarian(lvl 2), and Cleric(lvl 4). 

Main Attributes: Con(17) Wisdom(16)
Defenses: AC(21), Will(17), Fort and Ref(15)

Weapon and Shield: Lifestealer+1(Warhammer) and Heavy Shield
Armor: Defensive Scale+1

Build: Resilient Battlemind.

At will: Bull's strength, Iron Will, Lodestone Lure
Daily: Aspect of Harmony
Utility: Concussive Response(Thinking of Retraining to Telepathic Challenge)

Feats: Melee Training(Con), Improved Defenses.

I've followed the CharOp guide for Battleminds pretty closely, aside from character race. I was still feeling ineffectual in defending. I will be leveling up next game session before our Saturday game and I want to make sure I am doing right. My character essentially pulls or pushes enemies closer to himself or further away from allies. Originally was going to be a Polearm Battlemind, but reach 2 wasn't doing anything for me.

Any advice? 
Flag baldhermit May 19, 2013 6:55 AM PDT
What is it that makes you feel less effective in your role ?

The choice of hammer + lack of racial Con boost, and no expertise feat would leave your accuracy behind the curve, is that your issue?

Considering your the highest level PC in a group that also has level 1s and 2s, you should be the most dangerous thing out there right after the ranger. Do you cooperate with that PC, that player at all ? 
Flag DontEatRawHagis May 19, 2013 7:09 AM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 6:55AM, baldhermit wrote:

What is it that makes you feel less effective in your role ?

The choice of hammer + lack of racial Con boost, and no expertise feat would leave your accuracy behind the curve, is that your issue?

Considering your the highest level PC in a group that also has level 1s and 2s, you should be the most dangerous thing out there right after the ranger. Do you cooperate with that PC, that player at all ? 



Mainly it has to do with the Monsters I mark never activate my Mind Spike. When I asked the DM at the time said that my AC and defences were too low for him not to respect my mark.

As far as accuracy I do well enough right now, I might take a feat in Weapon Expertise later down the road.

Additional: There was a player I was playing against who kept telling me to stop being terrible. I think because I was mainly moving the enemies instead of damaging them. Then again at that time we were missing out strikers so I think he was already in a bad mood.

Flag Aranador May 19, 2013 1:33 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 6:39AM, DontEatRawHagis wrote:

Hello, non-optimizing player in a group of optimizers.

Playing a Thri-Kreen Battlemind(lvl 4). Group has Ranger(lvl 4), Sorcerer(lvl 1), Wizard(lvl 2), Barbarian(lvl 2), and Cleric(lvl 4). 

Main Attributes: Con(17) Wisdom(16)
Defenses: AC(21), Will(17), Fort and Ref(15)

Weapon and Shield: Lifestealer+1(Warhammer) and Heavy Shield
Armor: Defensive Scale+1

Build: Resilient Battlemind.

At will: Bull's strength, Iron Will, Lodestone Lure
Daily: Aspect of Harmony
Utility: Concussive Response(Thinking of Retraining to Telepathic Challenge)

Feats: Melee Training(Con), Improved Defenses.

I've followed the CharOp guide for Battleminds pretty closely, aside from character race. I was still feeling ineffectual in defending. I will be leveling up next game session before our Saturday game and I want to make sure I am doing right. My character essentially pulls or pushes enemies closer to himself or further away from allies. Originally was going to be a Polearm Battlemind, but reach 2 wasn't doing anything for me.

Any advice? 




Hmm - I'd recheck your math on your defences, off the top of my head, you should have 22 AC

Flag Zathris May 19, 2013 3:02 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 6:39AM, DontEatRawHagis wrote:


I've followed the CharOp guide for Battleminds pretty closely, aside from character race. I was still feeling ineffectual in defending. 



I don't know how often it's mentioned in the guide, since people who talk about the BM as a Defender tend to wear blinders, but BMs are terrible Defenders because of the Mindspike issue (specific races excluded); so what you're feeling is pretty much what every Battlemind feels at your level for any non-Daily Power encounter.

You also really should invest in Expertise, you're only at level+4 AC at a level where it's expected you'd be at level+6. Being able to hit is a major part of the Defending that Battleminds can do.

Flag Doobledigoop May 19, 2013 3:17 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 3:02PM, Zathris wrote:

I don't know how often it's mentioned in the guide, since people who talk about the BM as a Defender tend to wear blinders, but BMs are terrible Defenders because of the Mindspike issue (specific races excluded); so what you're feeling is pretty much what every Battlemind feels at your level for any non-Daily Power encounter.




And the races that make Battleminds worthwile defenders in heroic would be which ones?

Flag Zathris May 19, 2013 3:27 PM PDT
Half Elf, Human, Tiefling. And I'm not sure I'd even go as far as "worthwhile", lets just say "non-terrible".
Flag Mommy_was_an_Orc May 19, 2013 3:33 PM PDT
Question about what people think is RAW here for a Monk movement technique:

Encounter      Full DisciplinePsionicPsychic
Move Action      Personal


Effect: You move your speed + 4. You can use the attack technique at any point during the movement.


---------

Does the effect mean:
You can use the attack technique as part of the movement as a no action or
You can then choose to spend a standard action during the movement to use the attack technique.
Flag Doobledigoop May 19, 2013 3:34 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 3:27PM, Zathris wrote:

Half Elf, Human, Tiefling. And I'm not sure I'd even go as far as "worthwhile", lets just say "non-terrible".




I did expect that you meant the latter, but decided to ask just in case it was the former.

@MwaO
Personally, I'd say the "No Action" reading is favored by RAW, but I'm sleep deprived and may just be seeing things.

Flag Zathris May 19, 2013 3:45 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 3:33PM, Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:

Question about what people think is RAW here for a Monk movement technique:

Encounter      Full DisciplinePsionicPsychic
Move Action      Personal


Effect: You move your speed + 4. You can use the attack technique at any point during the movement.


---------

Does the effect mean:
You can use the attack technique as part of the movement as a no action or
You can then choose to spend a standard action during the movement to use the attack technique.



"Making an Attack" doesn't include action cost and is how all other move-and-attack powers as well as nearly all attack grants are phrased , "Using an Attack" does, but both phrases are very poorly defined and you could argue it either way. RAI is obviously the later.

Flag gandrasch May 19, 2013 4:02 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 5:29AM, gandrasch wrote:

Hi there,

I 'm creating a character with the bookish barbarian build and have two free feat slots (4 and 6) because I get some of these feats for free. What could you recommend? Cunning Stalker?




No one? Maybe I can't be helped. 

Flag Mommy_was_an_Orc May 19, 2013 4:19 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 3:45PM, Zathris wrote:

May 19, 2013 -- 3:33PM, Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:

Question about what people think is RAW here for a Monk movement technique:

Encounter      Full DisciplinePsionicPsychic
Move Action      Personal


Effect: You move your speed + 4. You can use the attack technique at any point during the movement.


---------

Does the effect mean:
You can use the attack technique as part of the movement as a no action or
You can then choose to spend a standard action during the movement to use the attack technique.



"Making an Attack" doesn't include action cost and is how all other move-and-attack powers as well as nearly all attack grants are phrased , "Using an Attack" does, but both phrases are very poorly defined and you could argue it either way. RAI is obviously the later.




Yeah, I agree completely - and if it were clear RAW, Monks would have one heck of a capstone 27 power - move and dominate and some damage as an after effect as part of a move action - which is clearly ridiculous.

I just couldn't figure out if I were missing some clear RAW PoV due to lack of sleep. 

Flag Doobledigoop May 19, 2013 4:21 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 4:02PM, gandrasch wrote:

May 19, 2013 -- 5:29AM, gandrasch wrote:

Hi there,

I 'm creating a character with the bookish barbarian build and have two free feat slots (4 and 6) because I get some of these feats for free. What could you recommend? Cunning Stalker?




No one? Maybe I can't be helped. 




You could have asked in the corresponding thread. I haven't gotten the chance to playtest it, but Improved Initiative (and later Danger Sense) is nice. Alternatively, you can just take later feats earlier.

Flag bullgaria May 19, 2013 5:23 PM PDT

May 17, 2013 -- 8:55PM, bullgaria wrote:

Is the encounter-long slide effect of Nightmare Vortex (lvl 5 battlemind daily) boostable in any way? (all I want is +1, Controlling Advantage is not an option)

As far as I understand, it's not actually part of the attack, is it? (otherwise Rushing Cleats would solve my problem nicely)



Nobody knows?

Flag Zathris May 19, 2013 6:43 PM PDT

May 19, 2013 -- 5:23PM, bullgaria wrote:


May 17, 2013 -- 8:55PM, bullgaria wrote:

Is the encounter-long slide effect of Nightmare Vortex (lvl 5 battlemind daily) boostable in any way? (all I want is +1, Controlling Advantage is not an option)

As far as I understand, it's not actually part of the attack, is it? (otherwise Rushing Cleats would solve my problem nicely)



Nobody knows?



Wow we're slacking, 2 missed questions!

it is indeed a Slide effect of the power so Rushing Cleats applies.

Flag RayjeEliwan May 20, 2013 8:05 AM PDT
I'm toying with a Desert Wind Monk|Elemental Warlock. What's a good way to get an item bonus to damage? I want to use Starblade Flurry, so since Monks have to use staves in two hands, Staff of Ruin is out. I'm medium, so Goblin Totem is out. A lot of my attacks aren't melee, so Iron Armbands are out. I want to keep my fire typing, so Radiant is out. What's left?
Flag bullgaria May 20, 2013 8:32 AM PDT

May 20, 2013 -- 8:05AM, RayjeEliwan wrote:

I'm toying with a Desert Wind Monk|Elemental Warlock. What's a good way to get an item bonus to damage? I want to use Starblade Flurry, so since Monks have to use staves in two hands, Staff of Ruin is out. I'm medium, so Goblin Totem is out. A lot of my attacks aren't melee, so Iron Armbands are out. I want to keep my fire typing, so Radiant is out. What's left?



A staff implement is wielded in one hand for implement attacks...unless you're planning on using Eldritch Strike, which is a weapon attack.

Flag RayjeEliwan May 20, 2013 10:24 AM PDT
Yeah, I AM using Eldritch Strike. Since I also want to use Starblade Flurry, you can see where this is going.
Flag bullgaria May 20, 2013 10:37 AM PDT

May 20, 2013 -- 10:24AM, RayjeEliwan wrote:

Yeah, I AM using Eldritch Strike. Since I also want to use Starblade Flurry, you can see where this is going.



Then you have an even bigger problem: a hybrid monk can only flurry off of monk powers, not even MBAs.
If you really want to use Eldritch Strike however, just use your off-hand dagger for the attack.

Since you are clearly trying to combine two dps class features, change Monk to Executioner and you'll benefit from both class features on Eldritch Strike.
A word of warning: as with most MBA/charge builds, spamming a single attack all day every day gets a little boring...even if it does do a lot of damage.

Flag RayjeEliwan May 20, 2013 11:15 AM PDT
Oh, I'm well aware of what I'm doing. ES is strictly for off-turn attacks like AoOs and leader-granted stuff. In no way is it a primary strategy. The fact remains, though, that I'm having a hard time finding an item bonus to damage. Any suggestions on that?
Flag Mommy_was_an_Orc May 20, 2013 11:19 AM PDT

May 20, 2013 -- 11:15AM, RayjeEliwan wrote:

Oh, I'm well aware of what I'm doing. ES is strictly for off-turn attacks like AoOs and leader-granted stuff. In no way is it a primary strategy. The fact remains, though, that I'm having a hard time finding an item bonus to damage. Any suggestions on that?




Could you give an example of what you're trying to do? i.e. what are you trying to use ES with vs. what are you trying to attack with in general?

Options might be Dwarven Throwers or a Subtle Weapon(assuming CA)

Flag CliveDauthi May 20, 2013 9:33 PM PDT
My Thri-Kreen Scout just hit level 3, does he get anything becides hit-points? Checked the guide but didn't see the next class features till lvl5
Flag dfn77 May 20, 2013 9:43 PM PDT
Nope*.

*I am a newbie so take that with a grain of salt
Flag Junkyard_Dog May 20, 2013 9:56 PM PDT

May 20, 2013 -- 9:33PM, CliveDauthi wrote:

My Thri-Kreen Scout just hit level 3, does he get anything becides hit-points? Checked the guide but didn't see the next class features till lvl5


You get a second use per encounter of Power Strike.

Flag CliveDauthi May 21, 2013 5:11 AM PDT
Thank you!

I had thought I got that, but the DDI dosn't say it, nor the guide so I didn't want to assume. 
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