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Darkwolf_Bloodsbane wrote:

A CON/CHA race gets Sky blue?

WTF?

No useful stat bonuses should be at most basic blue.

And Eladrin, having the Flexibility to go either path, should be Blue, not Black.

Re: Half Elves. Yes. Unfortunate but True. They make poor "True" Avengers, but if you're involved in an optimization effort with the Avenger, you'll be continuously pushed that way for Dual Strike, Twin Strike, or some other At-Will. Over 3/4 of the Avenger builds I see on the boards feature one. So yes, Sky Blue.

I'm so so sorry.

I'll think more about Eladrin.

For those going with the Student of Caiphon crit seeking builds do you think its worthwhile to pick up sacrifice to caiphon? I know avengers shouldn't miss much, but with all those hps it hurts a lot less than on a lock.

Ytterbium_Dragon wrote:

I have a question that might turn into a contribution - is there a ruling on teleporting enemies into the air to take fall damage? This would cause powers like Sequestering Strike to do quite a bit more damage, and if you're trained in Acrobatics, you only take half of the fall damage.

As far as I can see there isn't. You just need line of sight. Unveiled Visage PP and/or multi-class Wizard for a few more flying spells so you won't fall.
How's that for an angel of death?

First, an obvious problem:

In general, it seems that each type of avenger really only has half of what it needs to get successful. Pursuit avenger have a good mechanic for keeping an OoE target from leaving and a number of powers for chasing them down if they do. However, they've got no way of keeping the OoE target isolated. Retribution avengers, on the other hand, have a number of power options for keeping other foes away, but no mechanic for preventing the OoE target from simply ignoring the avenger and going elsewhere. In order to be consistently successful, it really seems like an avenger needs to be able to do both. So, I've been thinking about ways for a retribution avenger to keep his OoE target nearby (or at least make it easier to chase down).

In-class Powers
Well, a retribution avenger could just take pursuit avenger powers that allow him to follow (shift, teleport, etc) after a fleeing OoE target. Based on how the powers are written, that's usually a pretty sub-optimal choice, though.

Cross-class Powers
As stated, the retribution avenger needs powers that keep a foe from escaping. That could include imposing conditions (prone, slow, immobilize, or stun), creating difficult terrain, or bringing the foe back (pull or slide). The ideal power would use a weapon or holy symbol; be wisdom or intelligence-based, and be an immediate reaction or interrupt. I've only done a quick pass through the PHB, so I'm sure there are others out there (the invoker and druid, in particular, are probably worth checking), but here are some decent possibilities:

• Command (Cleric L3 Encounter)
  
• Enthrall (Cleric L17 Encounter)
  
• Sacred Word (Cleric L25 Daily)
  
• Own the Battlefield (Warlord, L22 Daily Utility)
  
• Icy Rays (Wizard L3 Encounter)
  
• Bigby's Icy Grasp (Wizard L5 Daily)
  
• Web (Wizard L5 Daily)
  
• Ice Storm (Wizard L9 Daily)
  
• Wall of Fire (Wizard L9 Daily)
  
• Mesmeric Hold (Wizard L13 Encounter)
  
• Bigby's Grasping Hands (Wizard L15 Daily)
  
• Blast of Cold (Wizard L15 Daily)
  
• Wall of Ice (Wizard L15 Daily)
  
• Crushing Titan's Fist (Wizard L17 Encounter)
  
• Evard's Black Tentacles (Wizard L19 Daily)
  
• Necrotic Web (Wizard L25 Daily)
  
• Forcecage (Wizard L27 Encounter)
  

Equipment

• Orbs of Sequestered Conflict (Adventurer's Vault 2 playtest). It's as if these were invented specifically for avengers!
  
• Various items granting teleportation or enhanced shifting
  
• Grasping weapon (Adventurer's Vault) [spear or polearm only]
  
• Pinning weapon (Adventurer's Vault)
  
• Skewering weapon (Adventurer's Vault) [spear or pick only]
  
• Trespasser's Bane weapon (Adventurer's Vault)
  
• Tanglefoot bag (Adventurer's Vault)
  
• Blastpatch (Adventurer's Vault) [shock version]
  
• Slow-step Oil (Adventurer's Vault)
  

If Only
A special note here, just because I'm bitter: Bola Training or Net Training (Dragon 368) would be great for this purpose, except that avengers can't take them. They are multiclass (weapon mastery) feats with "any martial class" as a pre-requisite.

Well, kilpatds, I finally put my Master of Defense Avenger together: you can find it here. Feel free to link this instead of my earlier post to your guide (which doesn't work, btw; it takes you to a Revered Visage build), and comments are welcome.