Correct me if I am wrong, but is not a glaive a two-handed weapon? Thus there is no off hand for the staff to be held in (until after the attack is completed), and thus you cannot wield the staff in the off hand during the attack...
This is essentially the staff debate revisited. A glaive is a two-handed weapon, but is not necessarily a two-handed implement.
This is essentially the staff debate revisited. A glaive is a two-handed weapon, but is not necessarily a two-handed implement.
That is simply ludicrous. I can see the firm foundation for a one-handed staff implement, because the books specifically declare that a staff implement (though not weapon) is wielded in one hand. Specific overrides general, and when used as an implement the staff needs one hand to wield.
However, in no manner does the wielding requirements for weapons get addressed with a specific rule for wielding in one hand when weapons are used as implements. Unless there was an explicit text stating that all implements are one handed (there is not*), or that heavy blade or polearm implements are one handed (there is not*), then they retain the wielding requirements of the weapon itself.
This is where the basis of 4E comes into play...specific overrides general. There is a specific rule stating that a staff implement can be wielded in one hand; this overrides the general requirement that a staff be wielded with two hands.
The glaive has no specific rule to override its general requirement; thus to wield it you will need two hands.
*if I am wrong on either count, please correct me and I will rescind my argument.
I've done a build up to level 11 (hence the AC 35). But it's yet to actually take any multiclasses yet. I share the opinion with another poster on these boards that a build should mature by level 16 at the latest and hence I'm still tweaking it a little. I'm actually thinking of trading off a bit of that AC to ensure the build works earlier.
I much prefer taking shielding swordmage aegis. In my opinion it's the stickiest ability out there. My DM hates it. Alot.
I'm toying around with totally dumping wisdom and losing out on the avenger powers or dumping constitution and going for an ensnarement swordmage.
FEATS Level 1: Mark of Storm Level 2: Hybrid Talent Level 4: Armor Proficiency (Leather) Level 6: Improved Armor of Faith Level 8: Arcane Familiar Level 10: White Lotus Riposte (retrained to Student of Battle at Level 11) Level 11: Greater Swordmage Warding Level 12: Bola Training Level 14: Arcane Admixture Level 16: Resounding Thunder
POWERS Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Sword Burst
ITEMS Summoned Feyleather Armor +4, Disrupting Bola +3, Warsoul Longsword +1, Belt of Vim (heroic tier), Circlet of Indomitability (heroic tier), Boots of Quickness (heroic tier) ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
You build looks super fun. What would you think about a whip instead of a bola?
Also, I agree that builds need to mature by mid-paragon at the latest. The build I have here has benchmarks at level 2 (when the Thunder-glaive starts being useful) and level 8 (when both stunning and the Immo-bola-zer start being useful). Everything after that is gravy in terms of size of AOE, accuracy of implements, and so forth.
But back to your build, I think going shielding swordmage makes more sense. The build feels more defender-ish than striker-ish, if that makes sense.
That is simply ludicrous. I can see the firm foundation for a one-handed staff implement, because the books specifically declare that a staff implement (though not weapon) is wielded in one hand. Specific overrides general, and when used as an implement the staff needs one hand to wield.
However, in no manner does the wielding requirements for weapons get addressed with a specific rule for wielding in one hand when weapons are used as implements. Unless there was an explicit text stating that all implements are one handed (there is not*), or that heavy blade or polearm implements are one handed (there is not*), then they retain the wielding requirements of the weapon itself.
This is where the basis of 4E comes into play...specific overrides general. There is a specific rule stating that a staff implement can be wielded in one hand; this overrides the general requirement that a staff be wielded with two hands.
The glaive has no specific rule to override its general requirement; thus to wield it you will need two hands.
*if I am wrong on either count, please correct me and I will rescind my argument.
Well, I don't have time right now to dig through the compendium, rule books, and magazines, so I'll post a more in depth response later. But for now, I'll just post two points:
1. Where in the RAW do "the books specifically declare that a staff implement (though not weapon) is wielded in one hand"?
2. If your take on glaive-as-two-handed-implement accords to RAW, then the only difficulty this poses for my Stunning Thunder-glaive Immo-bola-zer is one of wealth and some simple feat replacement. Instead of Focused Expertise (Glaive), I'll take Implement Expertise (Heavy Blades). And instead of having a Cunning Glaive, I'll take a Controlling Glaive (which has an encounter power that synergizes nicely with Thunder-glaive, anyway). And for the Stunning component of the build, I'd use a third implement - any one-handed heavy blade.
FEATS Human: Mark of Storm Level 1: Hybrid Talent Level 2: Armor Proficiency (Leather) Level 4: Improved Armor of Faith Level 6: Armor Proficiency (Hide) Level 8: Focused Expertise (Longsword) (retrained to Arcane Familiar at Level 11) Level 10: Student of Battle Level 11: Bola Training Level 12: Greater Swordmage Warding Level 14: Arcane Admixture Level 16: Resounding Thunder
POWERS Bonus At-Will Power: Lightning Lure Hybrid Avenger at-will 1: Bond of Censure Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Sword Burst Paragon Hybrid: Impenetrable Warding Paragon Hybrid: Dazing Rebuke Hybrid encounter 1: Angelic Alacrity Hybrid daily 1: Wings of Light Hybrid utility 2: Enduring Spirit Hybrid encounter 3: Transposing Lunge Hybrid daily 5: Swordmage Shielding Fire Hybrid utility 6: Swordmage's Decree Hybrid encounter 7: Thunderclap Strike Hybrid daily 9: Blade Bolt Hybrid utility 10: River of Life Hybrid encounter 13: Ensnaring Bolts (replaces Angelic Alacrity) Hybrid daily 15: Eldritch Chains (replaces Wings of Light) Hybrid utility 16: Aegis of Lost Souls
ITEMS Belt of Vim (heroic tier), Adventurer's Kit, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Circlet of Indomitability (heroic tier), Boots of Quickness (heroic tier), Mage's Cutting Wheel +1, Summoned Darkhide Armor +4, Disrupting Bola +3, Amulet of Mental Resolve +4, Strikebacks (heroic tier), Strongheart Tattoo (heroic tier), Handy Haversack (heroic tier) ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
This character relies on being a high-AC defender in heroic with extra stickiness caused by having lots of powers which mark the enemy with an aegis which reduces their damage by 6 (increases to 12 points at level 11).
Throughout heroic tier she is using a longsword in the main hand with an off-hand mage's cutting wheel for extra defence. At level 11 she starts to utilize an arcane familiar to swap between her "offensive weapon", a +3 disrupting bola, and her "defensive weapon", the cutting wheel. Since we can swap this as a free action we can even swap out the wheel for the bola (and back again) on opportunity attacks. The actual plus of the wheel is irrelevant - we're only using it for the +1 AC (we get free proficiency with "mage's"). Even with the bola in the main hand and the wheel in the offhand we only lose 2 AC (in paragon).
At level 11 we can now immobilize all adjacent enemies with our swordburst. At level 16 this increases to a close burst 2 with slide 1 (you could snag this earlier if you don't mind losing a bit of AC).
The idea is that you pull as many enemies adjacent to you as possible relying on your uber-AC to protect you and keep them there with your swordburst (after level 16 we'll start to add damage and white lotus riposte). You will nominate one enemy for your party to burn down, mark them, then release them from the trap so that the strikers in your party can flank etc, everyone benefiting from nice damage reduction.
Well, I don't have time right now to dig through the compendium, rule books, and magazines, so I'll post a more in depth response later. But for now, I'll just post two points:
1. Where in the RAW do "the books specifically declare that a staff implement (though not weapon) is wielded in one hand"?
You are correct, i is not explicitly stated. I was going from memory, and a brief search reveals the source of that ruling to be Customer Service. It has been assumed by most that staff implements are one handed, but never officially clarified. Thus, they may be two handed as well (as CustServ has ruled that way in the past too).
2. If your take on glaive-as-two-handed-implement accords to RAW, then the only difficulty this poses for my Stunning Thunder-glaive Immo-bola-zer is one of wealth and some simple feat replacement. Instead of Focused Expertise (Glaive), I'll take Implement Expertise (Heavy Blades). And instead of having a Cunning Glaive, I'll take a Controlling Glaive (which has an encounter power that synergizes nicely with Thunder-glaive, anyway). And for the Stunning component of the build, I'd use a third implement - any one-handed heavy blade.
FEATS Human: Mark of Storm Level 1: Hybrid Talent Level 2: Armor Proficiency (Leather) Level 4: Improved Armor of Faith Level 6: Armor Proficiency (Hide) Level 8: Focused Expertise (Longsword) (retrained to Arcane Familiar at Level 11) Level 10: Student of Battle Level 11: Bola Training Level 12: Greater Swordmage Warding Level 14: Arcane Admixture Level 16: Resounding Thunder
POWERS Bonus At-Will Power: Lightning Lure Hybrid Avenger at-will 1: Bond of Censure Hybrid Swordmage at-will 1: Sword Burst Paragon Hybrid: Impenetrable Warding Paragon Hybrid: Dazing Rebuke Hybrid encounter 1: Angelic Alacrity Hybrid daily 1: Wings of Light Hybrid utility 2: Enduring Spirit Hybrid encounter 3: Transposing Lunge Hybrid daily 5: Swordmage Shielding Fire Hybrid utility 6: Swordmage's Decree Hybrid encounter 7: Thunderclap Strike Hybrid daily 9: Blade Bolt Hybrid utility 10: River of Life Hybrid encounter 13: Ensnaring Bolts (replaces Angelic Alacrity) Hybrid daily 15: Eldritch Chains (replaces Wings of Light) Hybrid utility 16: Aegis of Lost Souls
ITEMS Belt of Vim (heroic tier), Adventurer's Kit, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Circlet of Indomitability (heroic tier), Boots of Quickness (heroic tier), Mage's Cutting Wheel +1, Summoned Darkhide Armor +4, Disrupting Bola +3, Amulet of Mental Resolve +4, Strikebacks (heroic tier), Strongheart Tattoo (heroic tier), Handy Haversack (heroic tier) ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
This character relies on being a high-AC defender in heroic with extra stickiness caused by having lots of powers which mark the enemy with an aegis which reduces their damage by 6 (increases to 12 points at level 11).
Throughout heroic tier she is using a longsword in the main hand with an off-hand mage's cutting wheel for extra defence. At level 11 she starts to utilize an arcane familiar to swap between her "offensive weapon", a +3 disrupting bola, and her "defensive weapon", the cutting wheel. Since we can swap this as a free action we can even swap out the wheel for the bola (and back again) on opportunity attacks. The actual plus of the wheel is irrelevant - we're only using it for the +1 AC (we get free proficiency with "mage's"). Even with the bola in the main hand and the wheel in the offhand we only lose 2 AC (in paragon).
At level 11 we can now immobilize all adjacent enemies with our swordburst. At level 16 this increases to a close burst 2 with slide 1 (you could snag this earlier if you don't mind losing a bit of AC).
The idea is that you pull as many enemies adjacent to you as possible relying on your uber-AC to protect you and keep them there with your swordburst (after level 16 we'll start to add damage and white lotus riposte). You will nominate one enemy for your party to burn down, mark them, then release them from the trap so that the strikers in your party can flank etc, everyone benefiting from nice damage reduction.
Two things about your build.
First of all, I LOVE the Cutting Wheel. I don't know how that slipped by my radar, but that is a perfect weapon/implement for a shielding swordmage. This build IS fully mature at level 16, but how about the Cutting Wheel proficiency feat at level 18 and switch up your Mage's Cutting Wheel for a Defensive Cutting Wheel (second wind and full defense actions will be SICK).
As I understand it, Bola negates damage to immobilize, and Enlarge Spell can't be used on a power that doesn't roll dice for damage, so they can't be used together.
