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Dungeons & Dra.. 4e Character Optim.. I Can Kill You With My Brain: The Psion's Handbook
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 4:54AM #11
Nameykins
Date Joined: Apr 22, 2009
Posts: 254
This guide would benefit much from cutting out the stuff that does not yet exist in 4th edition, nor is guaranteed to ever make an appearance. Having it there appears either misleading or just plain erroneus, depending on the outlook.

Having even a single inaccurate section in a guide like this can make a reader doubt the accuracy of the entire document.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 5:42AM #12
ChrisSE
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2009
Posts: 109
Some comments about the Level 1 Daily powers, I thought spreading out dmg is what controllers are supposed to do? One target concentration is for Strikers.

Then also I want to point out that Human doesn't seem as good in Epic as you can't change that extra at-will you took at lvl one and they don't scale that well...
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 7:07AM #13
Phyrixian_lawnmower
Date Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 187
A Human has a lvl 13, 17, 23 and 27 at-will power at lvl 30.
Any other class has a lvl 17, 23 and 27 power if they always replace with
a higher lvl power.

This would be especially interesting to a Cerulean Adept, because he'd
have two 1-point augmentable powers.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 9:27AM #14
Anubis_Reynard
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2008
Posts: 2,965

Phyrixian lawnmower wrote:

A Human has a lvl 13, 17, 23 and 27 at-will power at lvl 30.
Any other class has a lvl 17, 23 and 27 power if they always replace with
a higher lvl power.

This would be especially interesting to a Cerulean Adept, because he'd
have two 1-point augmentable powers.


The Human at-will is not augmentable.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 12:40PM #15
Morikal
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2007
Posts: 220

Anubis_Reynard wrote:

The Human at-will is not augmentable.


Right, a human will end up with a lvl 1 power which has no augments (but does have the agumentable keyword), and a 17, 23, and 27 at-will (assuming always replacing with a higher level power). (The lvl 1 power cannot be replaced because "the power you replace must have augmentations.")

A few comments about the guide:
- Would be helpful to recommend which at-wills to drop in favor of higher level ones
- I.e., at level 7, what are reasonable sets of the 3 at-wills you will have? I actually think dropping the lvl 3 at-will may be worth it, as dishearten and mind thrust are both better than betrayal or id insinuation. At least, I think they are... dishearten is a nice attack debuff, mind thrust is a nice defense debuff. Betrayal is just "ok"... its very situational without a double augmentation, and even then, you have to hit your target, then your target has to hit their ally. The daze effect is reasonable though. I would have rated betrayal as black.

Id Insinuation is worse than betrayal IMO. I would have given it purple, unless you are in a party where your allies have big-hitting fort-targetting powers, in which case it becomes more useful (probably dark blue), especially for a nova round. Blow an action point, set down 2 id insinuations (one with 1 augment, the other with the double augment), and you have a nice fort debuff + extra damage for the next (or all?) fort-targeting attack to hit the target before the end of your next turn.

Perhaps just laying down some replacement strategies would suffice... the viability of the new at-will will depend in part on what others you have.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 1:47PM #16
Belile
Date Joined: May 25, 2005
Posts: 441

Kerrus wrote:

Err, what's with the fake races?


I was just having a little fun...

Nameykins wrote:

This guide would benefit much from cutting out the stuff that does not yet exist in 4th edition, nor is guaranteed to ever make an appearance. Having it there appears either misleading or just plain erroneus, depending on the outlook.

Having even a single inaccurate section in a guide like this can make a reader doubt the accuracy of the entire document.


Point taken. I went ahead and removed all the references to classes and races that don't yet exist in 4th edition. I'm not sure what to call the second discipline in the article since they don't explicitly name it. I'm going to stick with kineticist and psychokinesis discipline for now...

Just for fun though, I'm going to repost here for anyone who wonders what we're talking about...
Warning!!! Made up content, just for fun!
Races - PHB3 Show


None of the Player's Handbook 3 races are detailed yet (except the playtest Wilden). However, Githzerai will debut in August (although I think they'll make a better monk than a psion) and other races will follow. In the meantime, enjoy what I have seen in my mind's eye.

Dromite (+2 Dex, +2 Chr) – Although you're better off being a Wilder, some Wilder|Psion hybrids do exist.

Duergar (MM2) (+2 Con, +2 Wis) – Some Duergar fighters may want to multiclass into Psion.

Elan (+2 Int) – Elans continue the dominance they enjoyed in 3.5. You make a great psion of any dicipline.

Githyanki (MM) (+2 Con, +2 Int) – Far and away the best Swordmage|Psion hybrid combination out there.

Githzerai (MM) (+2 Dex, +2 Wis) – Your psionic abilities lend themselves more toward a centered breath monk than a psion. Go Fist of Zuoken for you Paragon Path for ultimate goodness.

Half-Giant (+2 Str, +2 Con) – See the Psychic Warrior handbook, that's where you should be looking.

Maenad (+2 Chr, +2 Any) – Although you make a better Wilder, you also make a good Telepath.

Thri-Kreen (+2 Str, +2 Dex) – Your extra set of arms don't get much use as a psion, as a monk though...

Wilden (D374) (+2 Con, +2 Wis) – Available now as a playtest PHB3 race, but no feat support. It seems more suited to the druid class.

Xeph (+2 Dex, +2 Chr) – See the Soulknife handbook, that's your favored class.
I Can Kill You With My Brain:  The Psion's Handbook - Wiki | Discussion Thread
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 2:47PM #17
Josep
  • Stampeding Hybrid
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2008
Posts: 143

Morikal wrote:

Betrayal is just "ok"... its very situational without a double augmentation, and even then, you have to hit your target, then your target has to hit their ally. The daze effect is reasonable though. I would have rated betrayal as black.

Id Insinuation is worse than betrayal IMO. I would have given it purple, unless you are in a party where your allies have big-hitting fort-targetting powers, in which case it becomes more useful (probably dark blue), especially for a nova round. Blow an action point, set down 2 id insinuations (one with 1 augment, the other with the double augment), and you have a nice fort debuff + extra damage for the next (or all?) fort-targeting attack to hit the target before the end of your next turn.


Betrayal strikes me as very weak (purple?) because of the issues with double rolls. Even with a nice bonus to hit with charisma (+3? +4?), once is still looking at adding a 20% miss rate. It's hard for me to imagine wanting the power, except that all the other choices are worse.

Unfortunately, I agree with Morikal that Id Insinuation (red? purple?) is even worse except for unusual parties. Right now, there aren't many regular attacks against Fortitude, which makes the Fortitude-targeting nova rather poor except with a carefully designed party. Then it is amazing.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 3:06PM #18
Drackthor
Date Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 803
Discipline.

DiScipline.

That is all.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 3:07PM #19
Yorrin
Date Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 91

Belile wrote:

Point taken.  I went ahead and removed all the references to classes and races that don't yet exist in 4th edition.  I'm not sure what to call the second dicipline in the article since they don't explicitly name it.  I'm going to stick with kineticist and psychokinesis dicipline for now...

Just for fun though, I'm going to repost here for anyone who wonders what we're talking about...
Warning!!! Made up content, just for fun!

Duergar (MM2) (+2 Con, +2 Wis) – Some Duergar fighters may want to multiclass into Psion.

Githyanki (MM) (+2 Con, +2 Int) – Far and away the best Swordmage|Psion hybrid combination out there.

Githzerai (MM) (+2 Dex, +2 Wis) – Your psionic abilities lend themselves more toward a centered breath monk than a psion.  Go Fist of Zuoken for you Paragon Path for ultimate goodness.


No need to cut the MM1/2 races... just make note that the Gith will be getting more support come PHB3.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 10, 2009 - 4:24PM #20
ChrisSE
Date Joined: Jun 7, 2009
Posts: 109

Morikal wrote:

Right, a human will end up with a lvl 1 power which has no augments (but does have the agumentable keyword), and a 17, 23, and 27 at-will (assuming always replacing with a higher level power). (The lvl 1 power cannot be replaced because "the power you replace must have augmentations.")


Yes, that is why I think it should be mentioned in the guide as that make the extra at will kind pointless during epic... As you will probably be stuck with Memory Hole at Epic, 1d6 + INT and you are invisible to the target. Seems like there are a lot of better stuff to use in epic... So maybe the Human is strong during Heroic, but he will shine less and less during high paragon and epic...

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