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4 years ago  ::  Jan 15, 2009 - 6:38PM #31
lordduskblade
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 8,387
The build has been update; the most important aspect is that Magic Missile has replaced Scorching Burst.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 11:16AM #32
DDogwood
Date Joined: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 417
Here's a question: if the Wizard uses his Orb of Imposition power with the Sleep spell, does the saving throw penalty apply to both the Slow and Sleep effects, or does the Wizard have to choose one of these two effects to apply the penalty?

If it only applies to one, then it's very difficult to 'lock down' a Solo before level 29, when Legion's Hold becomes available - even with a Cunning weapon, a Phrenetic Helm, and Spell Focus, a Solo will still save on a 10+. If the Wizard has to choose between applying the penalty to the save vs. Slow or the save vs. Unconsciousness, it means he either risks a 55% chance of the solo failing to fall unconscious, or risks a 55% chance of the unconscious solo waking up each turn.

Obviously this problem goes away at level 29, but it seems to me that a lot of problems go away in the high Epic levels.
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 11:26AM #33
lordduskblade
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 8,387

DDogwood wrote:

Here's a question: if the Wizard uses his Orb of Imposition power with the Sleep spell, does the saving throw penalty apply to both the Slow and Sleep effects, or does the Wizard have to choose one of these two effects to apply the penalty?

If it only applies to one, then it's very difficult to 'lock down' a Solo before level 29, when Legion's Hold becomes available - even with a Cunning weapon, a Phrenetic Helm, and Spell Focus, a Solo will still save on a 10+. If the Wizard has to choose between applying the penalty to the save vs. Slow or the save vs. Unconsciousness, it means he either risks a 55% chance of the solo failing to fall unconscious, or risks a 55% chance of the unconscious solo waking up each turn.

Obviously this problem goes away at level 29, but it seems to me that a lot of problems go away in the high Epic levels.


It goes away faster; Prismatic Spray can take folk out at L25.

I've always read it to be on all effects of that spell. If someone has another opinion, I'm open to it. Not only that, but with the Epic-level gear (which will likely be in place by L23), you're slapping on a -8 penalty, almost savelocking normal monsters, severely impeding Elites, and even Solos have to roll 13+. So that 55% chance is actually more along the lines of 40% (passively). It drops to 35% when you get the +6 cunning weapon. You are right in that the interpretation you suggested diminishes the usefulness of Sleep, but it doesn't obliviate it.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 1:19PM #34
Dark_Lambo
Date Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 3,757

DDogwood wrote:

Here's a question: if the Wizard uses his Orb of Imposition power with the Sleep spell, does the saving throw penalty apply to both the Slow and Sleep effects, or does the Wizard have to choose one of these two effects to apply the penalty?


...that's a good question.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 1:53PM #35
GeorgeFHarris
Date Joined: Feb 1, 2006
Posts: 337

lordduskblade wrote:

Wizard of the Spiral Tower was chosen because of its ability to wield a Longsword for Implement powers. This opens up Cunning weapons, which offer a save penalty as a property. And I believe this penalty, combined with the strong powers for Wizards of the Spiral Tower (A spammable daze attack? Sold!), is more powerful than anything the orb-wielding Divine Oracle has to offer. Additionally, the build's power selection is geared toward battlefield control, not abusing attacks vs. Will defense.

In short, the Divine Oracle is another build. Similar, perhaps, but it's a different build. This build locks out any Solo with a 100% success rate. A Divine Oracle would only be able to muster a -12 save penalty (-13 if he went Demigod over Archmage). That means the Solo has a 20% (or 15%) chance of escape.


I'd like to point out this cheese:

Orb of Ultimate Imposition
Power (Daily): Free Action. Use this power when you use your orb of imposition class feature. Increase the penalty bestowed on your target by an amount equal to the enhancement bonus of this orb.

Once a day it is more powerful than a Cunning Weapon. (Many GM's would rule that you cannot use both on the same spell, because only one implement can cast a spell, and you only get that implement's powers and properties added on to the spell.)

Assuming a starting stat of INT 18, WIS 16 (as shown in the OP), this could generate by 28th level Archmage (adding Phrenic Crown (27th level), Spell Focus, and +6 Orb).

OoI (+7) + PC (+3) + SF (+2) + OoUI (+6) = +18 (+19 Demigod)

Using this Orb, a DO can totally lock out a Solo.

The SM/WotST build has the advantage of:

PC (+3) + SF (+2) + Cunning (+2) = +7

doing this to all of the other creatures in the encounter (15% escape).

I built my DO wizard pretty much with the same 1st level build (Scorching Burst instead of MM, and Icy Terrain but thinking of retraining to grasping shadows). But I did this before Swordmage and Cunning Weapon came out.

One thing I would suggest concerning the build is to start as a Staff Wizard at 1st level, and pick up Second Implement (Orb) at 11th level. My wizard will take Durable at 10th, and retrain it to Spell Focus at 11th level.

Is there a reason for not taking Staff of Defense?

GH

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 1:57PM #36
GeorgeFHarris
Date Joined: Feb 1, 2006
Posts: 337

DDogwood wrote:

Here's a question: if the Wizard uses his Orb of Imposition power with the Sleep spell, does the saving throw penalty apply to both the Slow and Sleep effects, or does the Wizard have to choose one of these two effects to apply the penalty?


Sleep
Hit: The target is slowed (save ends). If the target fails its first saving throw against this power, the target becomes unconscious (save ends).

I treat this as the same effect. If unconscious was a second effect, then the spell would say (save ends both), as with Lightning Serpent.

GH

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 3:16PM #37
DDogwood
Date Joined: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 417

GeorgeFHarris wrote:

Sleep
Hit: The target is slowed (save ends). If the target fails its first saving throw against this power, the target becomes unconscious (save ends).

I treat this as the same effect. If unconscious was a second effect, then the spell would say (save ends both), as with Lightning Serpent.

GH


The reason I ask is that "slowed" and "unconscious" are listed as separate effects in the rulebooks, and the Orb of Imposition says "an effect", not "a power". I can see how you can defend either reading, but I think it's important to know because it affects an orb wizard for the first 24 levels of his career (not 28, thanks lordduskblade!).

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 22, 2009 - 6:27PM #38
lordduskblade
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 8,387

GeorgeFHarris wrote:

I'd like to point out this cheese:

Orb of Ultimate Imposition
Power (Daily): Free Action. Use this power when you use your orb of imposition class feature. Increase the penalty bestowed on your target by an amount equal to the enhancement bonus of this orb.

Once a day it is more powerful than a Cunning Weapon. (Many GM's would rule that you cannot use both on the same spell, because only one implement can cast a spell, and you only get that implement's powers and properties added on to the spell.)

Assuming a starting stat of INT 18, WIS 16 (as shown in the OP), this could generate by 28th level Archmage (adding Phrenic Crown (27th level), Spell Focus, and +6 Orb).

OoI (+7) + PC (+3) + SF (+2) + OoUI (+6) = +18 (+19 Demigod)

Using this Orb, a DO can totally lock out a Solo.

The SM/WotST build has the advantage of:

PC (+3) + SF (+2) + Cunning (+2) = +7

doing this to all of the other creatures in the encounter (15% escape).

I built my DO wizard pretty much with the same 1st level build (Scorching Burst instead of MM, and Icy Terrain but thinking of retraining to grasping shadows). But I did this before Swordmage and Cunning Weapon came out.

One thing I would suggest concerning the build is to start as a Staff Wizard at 1st level, and pick up Second Implement (Orb) at 11th level. My wizard will take Durable at 10th, and retrain it to Spell Focus at 11th level.

Is there a reason for not taking Staff of Defense?

GH


Not really; the free hand for Blade Initiate's power, perhaps? I'll shuffle things around, then.

Although the DO with the Orb of Imposition is more powerful 1/day, the Orbizard is not built with 1/day in mind (evidenced by picking Archmage and thus being able to recycle Daily powers). I fully expect to be able to savelock anywhere from 5 to 7 Solos per day at Level 29 (if I hit 'em all). To me, that's crazy awesome. Not only that, but the additional power is really overkill; I get to -16, which savelocks any Solo. That's enough for me.

And Cunning goes all the way up to a -4 penalty on saves, which makes the penalty -9, thus reducing the chance of escape to 10%. So I stun everything else out of the fight too.

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4 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2009 - 9:42AM #39
drigerott
Date Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Posts: 74
Fantastic Build ^^ i was optimizig my Wizard for WotST and foud this treadh.......

Very fantastic.....what i was serching :D thak you very much :D great job
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4 years ago  ::  Jan 23, 2009 - 10:19AM #40
Dark_Lambo
Date Joined: Aug 22, 2005
Posts: 3,757

DDogwood wrote:

The reason I ask is that "slowed" and "unconscious" are listed as separate effects in the rulebooks, and the Orb of Imposition says "an effect", not "a power". I can see how you can defend either reading, but I think it's important to know because it affects an orb wizard for the first 24 levels of his career (not 28, thanks lordduskblade!).


If you treat the effect as an upgrade (Slow -> Unconc) then the save works for both, and it means if he wakes up he's not slowed.
If it's separate, you'd have to decide which to apply to, and even if he wakes up he may still be slowed.

Personally, I think it's the latter to prevent a level 1 daily pwning a level 30 solo, but that's just me.

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