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igotsmeakabob!! wrote:

I'm surprised to see Greatsword's damage so much lower than Greataxe... did they change it from 3.5's 2d6?

Greatsword is 1d10 now but has a better accuracy (prof) than greataxe. That whole top group is rather close with greataxe inching a victory.

Is it posible you could do the same table for large weapons?

The graph is a nice piece of work. However, it ignores for instance the benefits high crit weapons gain with subsequent tiers. At Paragon the crit is +2[W] and at Epic its +3[W].

Also, you really should have made two graphs, one comparing two handed weapons and versatile weapons held two handed, and another for one handed weapons.

There's also the problem of how feats affect this. Superior weapons, for instace, cost a feat. Is the higher damage worth the feat? Hard to say from the graph. At higher levels I guess everyone has the weapon feats they need, but at lower levels you want too many things at once.

Take the example of the scimitar, the longsword and the bastard sword. One handed, without taking feats into account, at each tier, hitting on a 5, 10 and 15 (before proficiencies) you have that the averages are:
[code] Heroic Paragon Epic
5 10 15 5 10 15 5 10 15

Scimitar 4.45 3.325 2.2 4.675 3.55 2.425 4.9 3.775 2.65
Longsword 4.45 3.325 2.2 4.45 3.325 2.2 4.45 3.325 2.2
Bastard Sword 5.45 4.075 2.7 5.45 4.075 2.7 5.45 4.075 2.7[/code]
While the scimitar and longsword perform equally well at heroic levels, the scimitar gains an advantage at Paragon and Epic, though not enough to outperform the bastard sword. However, a player had to pay a proficiency feat to get the bastard sword. If instead of proficiency he'd gotten Weapon Focus, for instance, his damage would be (in the same circumstances as above)

[code]With Weapon Focus (Scimitar and Longsword)
Heroic Paragon Epic
5 10 15 5 10 15 5 10 15

Scimitar 5.35 3.975 2.6 6.475 4.85 3.225 7.6 5.725 3.85
Longsword 5.4 4.025 2.65 6.35 4.725 3.1 7.3 5.425 3.55
Bastard Sword 5.45 4.075 2.7 5.45 4.075 2.7 5.45 4.075 2.7[/code]
So, while one feat spent in improving your weapon is worth it at heroic levels still, at paragon and epic you have to get Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword) or be out-performed by the other weapons. One might assume that you'll have all the feats you need, but one has to consider it is a cost. If you're making a comparison, everything else should be equal. Including number of feats spent.

There's another thing to keep in mind, though. Because weapons have different accuracies, static damage bonuses (like from weapon focus, as noted above, or strength, or the magic bonus) also have to be taken into account between low and high accuracy weapons. A battle axe may seem better than the Greatsword, but the greatsword has a +3 instead of the axe's +2. Granted, the axe cheats in that it has both better damage AND is high crit. But if strength is high enough and the weapon has bonus extra damage, the greatsword can shorten the difference.

In short, there are a lot of aspects to consider regarding weapon damage now, and one has to keep this in mind when looking at a graph like the OP's. Things aren't quite as clear cut as that would imply.

Just as a final note. With 24 in Str and Dex, a +6 weapon, Weapon Focus, and Scimitar dance for the scimitar (a fair comparison against the bastard sword, though the longsword lacks a specialized feat for itself), the Scimitar wins, the gap widening the harder a target is to hit. Didn't take Heavy Blade Spec into account for any though, which would favour the scimitar. So while a longsword or bastard sword user might have better Str, the scimitar still eeks out a victory in one handed weapons with enough Dex. Will have to check again when a feat for damage on a miss comes out for the others.

Even ignoring feats, there are various quirks.

(1) Damage is not only about the dice; there are constants added too. As these constants get bigger, the to-hit bonus of weapons like the greatsword becomes more attractive.

See http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=16092375 for a greatsword vs greataxe analysis at heroic tier.

(2) Many weapon attacks have a secondary effect in addition to simple damage. Even a +1 makes it more likely that the secondary effect will trigger.

(3) 1W attacks are only a subset of the available attacks. 2W and 3W attacks are not uncommon at the heroic tier. Epic tier basic attacks are 2W with encounters often being 4W and dailies getting up to 6W or more. Of course, increasing the die multiplier dilutes the relative effect of constant bonuses.