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High five on this build.  There's nothing I don't like about it, especially the catch-22 trick with White Lotus.  That is awesome.

One thing I wanted to mention was that reading the teleportation rules it seems you don't have to have Roundabout Charge.  Since Fey Charge replaces up to 5 squares of movement during a charge, it seems that you would then use the rules for teleportation, which break the rules of normal movement.  Perhaps I'm missing something though.

LordofLeapin,

Its still a charge, and as such must obey all the rules therein. You are not executing a different maneuver, merely replacing a portion (or in some cases all) of your charge movement with the teleport.

Fey Charge states: "...replace up to 5 squares of your charge movement with teleportation."

Notice that it specifically states charge movement.

But, deep down inside I wish you were right.

When you Fey Charge you don't provoke OA's with the teleportation do you?

You also ignore difficult terrain correct?

You can even Fey Charge while immobilized, assuming you're within 5 squares of your enemy right?

Why wouldn't you also ignore all the other limitations of charge movement that teleportation contradicts?

The way I'm reading it, you use the rules for teleportation with those 5 squares that replace the charge movement.  Therefore, since teleportation allows you to choose where you end up, you can choose where you end the charge.

The fact that there's a difference of opinion, however, just proves to me that Roundabout Charge should be used.  It definitively allows you to charge in any adjacent square; there's no gray area.  I just wanted to see other people's interpretations.

Well, to me the wording of Fey Charge uses the term "replace" would mean that one cannot use the rules for teleportation.  In essence, a Fey Charger has already decided his/her path under the charging rules and cannot later override that decision -- at least, not without failing to meet the 'replace' restriction.

Nov 29, 2009 -- 9:40PM, tsuyoshikentsu wrote:

So I was going through the warlock build, and, uh... you can't take TWF with a Dex of 12.  Like, ever.

So what you'd have to do is shift stuff from CHA into DEX.  I'm going through and actualy building this thing in the CB (with some tweaks); I'll post what I get.

Thanks, i really wish there was a CB for liunx. Tell me when you find out, both int and cha are probably ok...

Nov 30, 2009 -- 12:38PM, LordofLeapin wrote:

High five on this build.  There's nothing I don't like about it, especially the catch-22 trick with White Lotus.  That is awesome.

Thank you !

One thing I wanted to mention was that reading the teleportation rules it seems you don't have to have Roundabout Charge.  Since Fey Charge replaces up to 5 squares of movement during a charge, it seems that you would then use the rules for teleportation, which break the rules of normal movement.  Perhaps I'm missing something though.

Would be nice, but i don't see why teleport should change the charge requirements. Teleport is just another mode of movement with some special rules, everything not explicitly overwritten by a part of the teleport movement description still applies imo (but i would love to be wrong^^). However, roundabout charge isn't that necessary with the warlock build, if necessary you could use a teleport extender and simply at-will teleport away with Etheral Sidestep.

And the new "Stride of the Gallant" swordmage utility 6 power from the Gloaming Fey article just made the hybrid feycharger extra"bamf"-y with a teleport 3 as part of your encounter-long movement every encounter.

How insanely unbalanced is that?  An encounter stance?

Check up two more attacks for any swordmage-based feycharger with planestrider boots.

Bonkers.

No, it's only actual fey step usages that give attacks with eladrin swordmage advance, fortunately. Not other teleports. Some feychargers already use ethereal stride for at-will move action teleports.

Oh OK - that's a relief!

Consider Salubrious armor(+2 AC when healed(through ankmon's bracers)) for an extra +2 item bonus for your AC instead of Runic in paragon when the epic power is not available.

Also have a section of how to keep feystep in paragon and epic.  The divine has the best options 






ways to avoid loosing fey step
stone of light as daily power (preferably with the group)
potion of clarity if stone is used
AP to reroll (daggermaster)

Imagine a team of feychargers each with an item from the caelynnvala's boon set who's group set benefits say that when anyone of the team uses an elven racial power(fey step, darkfire, elven accuracy) everybody weilding/wearing one of the item sets gets an untyped +1 to all defenses till end of activator's next turn.  With 5 people using fey step all the time you all get an untyped +10 to defenses.  Yay for team eladrin.

Hi Borg, nice idea on the Fey Charger team.  I'm been trying to come up with a team of Eladrin, and this might be a cool option (related post).  I wonder what a team of all fey chargers would look like and how well it would work given that you always have to charge to the nearest square.  

What is the feat were you can fey step with someone else?

~imaginari

You can take them when you teleport, but it doesn't let them hit at the end of the teleport.  If anything the feycharger likes to stay 2 squares away from his target so he satisfies the charge requirements.  A way to accomplish this is to have everybody have some whistles of warning (wondrous item encounter minor action that lets all allies shift 1).  Even 1 shift / round the feycharger can move to a more advantageous position when they start their charge.

As per a paragon team I'd recommend some divine feychargers(heavy shield in place of second dagger) and a morninglord with some at-will AoE radiant power.  The feychargers try and keep the baddies rounded up.  The drawback to abusing the aegis of assault is that the only drawback foes have from choosing to attack the non-feycharger is that they have a -2 (screwed if you do, screwed if you don't) due to White lotus master riposte.  See if you can have the leader always on a flying mount and make a wall if indoors.

The hardest part of a paragon feycharger is giving him to-hit boosts so he doesn't loose his feycharge, and choosing offensive attack powers that will be used instead of choosing utility attack powers.  This is because the probability of losing fey step is much greater in paragon, thus one needs to prepare for that scenario.  Possibly get some of the amulets that make charging not provoke OAs so the battlefield is completely open again.  

I just realized that  Shadow Band(gain concealment) and Font of radiance(no benefits from concealment while in an affected square) don't play well together.  I'd recommend a ring of the giants.

In a section you might have for paragon feychargers please add the dice of auspicious fortune.  It's a daily item usage for 3d20 rolls, encounter power to swap a current roll with a stored one.  It's a better usage than stone of light. 

For your divine feycharger, how are you getting the power of arcana and worshiping amunator?

Your point distribution is wrong.  You have more points avaliable.

That means that virtous strike is not arcane, thus does not qualify for white lotus riposte and thus the catch 22. 

Jan 29, 2010 -- 8:55AM, borg285 wrote:

For your divine feycharger, how are you getting the power of arcana and worshiping amunator?

Your point distribution is wrong.  You have more points avaliable.

That means that virtous strike is not arcane, thus does not qualify for white lotus riposte and thus the catch 22. 

Thanks for catching the point distribution. Was a leftover, its supposed to be 18 13 13 (and the calculations used those numbers, so not much to fix).

Gods =  fluff imo. (kinda thought ths was consensus on CO - otherwise all those amunator + pelor builds floating around wouldn't work, dragonshards would be tied to Eberron only, Eberron would have no Windrise Ports equivalent and couln't use many PPs from FR etc. But i may be wrong )

 

If it isn't too much trouble would you please post a 'old version' for those that don't have the pleasure of having a DM so lenient.  What would you recommend for one that can't use windrise ports, just in case the divine version doesn't pan out (No power of arcane + morninglord, no windrise?

Jan 29, 2010 -- 8:54PM, borg285 wrote:

If it isn't too much trouble would you please post a 'old version' for those that don't have the pleasure of having a DM so lenient.  What would you recommend for one that can't use windrise ports, just in case the divine version doesn't pan out (No power of arcane + morninglord, no windrise?

I'd recommend the Bard version (293DPR, main post has link), which requires no hybrid, no white lotus, no windrise and no dragon material. I'll reconstruct and add the old version tomorrow, although i really think a god mismatch is a non-issue compared to all the other things like windrise, stacking thunder etc. the build uses. I even think there is a box somewhere about changing domains in DP...

Is there any reason a Revenant (Eladrin) with the Eladrin Soul feat wouldn't work better for the Arcane Feycharger (seeing as they have +2 Con, and the build is Con-centric)?

Jan 30, 2010 -- 5:48PM, Akhorahil wrote:

Is there any reason a Revenant (Eladrin) with the Eladrin Soul feat wouldn't work better for the Arcane Feycharger (seeing as they have +2 Con, and the build is Con-centric)?

Except for the additional feat, none . Its been a long time since i last looked at the warlock feycharger, i'll try to update tomorrow. I also have to fix twf + dex 12...


Edit: I will put build changes on hold until i have the book, since several new feats have a big impact on feychargers. If someone needs a build, don't forget to get the fighter encounter stance martial supremacy (dragon 382)…

I think that the many-fingered gloves might lead to more DPR than the gloves of destruction.

Feb 7, 2010 -- 8:50PM, borg285 wrote:

I think that the many-fingered gloves might lead to more DPR than the gloves of destruction.

What ring do you have in mind ? I tried war ring and ring of giants, but both don't add enough damage vs. the gloves (normal: gloves 1.5, critical: war ring 11, ring of giants 12, gloves 10).

It specifically says in the Domain section that you can worship multiple Gods and take any of their domains. Fun, eh?

Feb 8, 2010 -- 3:49AM, SongNSilence wrote:

Feb 7, 2010 -- 8:50PM, borg285 wrote:

I think that the many-fingered gloves might lead to more DPR than the gloves of destruction.

What ring do you have in mind ? I tried war ring and ring of giants, but both don't add enough damage vs. the gloves (normal: gloves 1.5, critical: war ring 11, ring of giants 12, gloves 10).

I guess you've explored all the options that I thought were superior.  Perhaps they would have added more to your daggermaster version as he crit more often, but perhaps not.  Nevermind then.

Feb 8, 2010 -- 4:29AM, SadisticFishing wrote:

It specifically says in the Domain section that you can worship multiple Gods and take any of their domains. Fun, eh?

Thanks, good to know. Would have been kinda surprising if one couldn't worship multiple gods. I mean, they all do exist, and every god only covers a very small aspect of life. As a commoner, you basically have to worship multiple gods if your life isn't completely one sided. Glad to see its also possible for divine professions (e.g. your occupation is judicar, but you are also an eladrin worshipping corellon, or a womanizer worshipping sune ) 

Feb 8, 2010 -- 6:26AM, borg285 wrote:

Feb 8, 2010 -- 3:49AM, SongNSilence wrote:

Feb 7, 2010 -- 8:50PM, borg285 wrote:

I think that the many-fingered gloves might lead to more DPR than the gloves of destruction.

What ring do you have in mind ? I tried war ring and ring of giants, but both don't add enough damage vs. the gloves (normal: gloves 1.5, critical: war ring 11, ring of giants 12, gloves 10).

I guess you've explored all the options that I thought were superior.  Perhaps they would have added more to your daggermaster version as he crit more often, but perhaps not.  Nevermind then.

Yes, i was also kinda surpised by that. Same result for a daggermaster:

normal attack: roll 3 dice -> +1.5
critical attack: roll 20 dice -> +10

0.8*1.5 + 0.15*10 = 1.2+1.5 = 2.7
vs.
0.15*12 = 1.8

(if the weapon wasn't bloodiron and the bracers wouldn't add another die roll, ring of giants would be better)

You might want to take a look at this in regard to the Divine Feycharger and Power of Arcana/Arcane Admixture.

Feb 8, 2010 -- 11:08AM, Melos wrote:

You might want to take a look at this in regard to the Divine Feycharger and Power of Arcana/Arcane Admixture.

Well, its just CS (maybe), and considering many of their previous responses, i don't really take that thread seriously. (However, if your DM uses those responses, you could take barrage bracers. I guess in that case you won't even need Morninglord anymore, since Power of the Sun is suddenly available. Loss of thunder keyword might be a problem, if you need a non-"Power of Arcana" build i can try to look into it).

There is a new option for charge precision (Martial Supremacy, fighter 22 encounter stance), combined with barrage bracers it allowed me to switch the usual PP and ED for Long Night Scion + Radiant One. This build shamelessly borrows from AlphatheGreat's Arcane Slasher, i just made it work with the arcane feycharger. Damage is 556 DPR, so it looks like the arcane version is ahead of the divine one again

Build Show
To hit and damage Show
Howto Show

Briefly describe why you need both acolyte power and reserve meneuver?

Would there, perchance, be a way to use the planestrider boots and an eladrin ring of passage to make etheral sidestep into a teleport 3.  You use this to teleport 1 next to foe, and the last to teleport 2 squares away which prepares you for the feycharge. 

Feb 9, 2010 -- 1:34PM, borg285 wrote:

Briefly describe why you need both acolyte power and reserve meneuver?

acolyte power is used for the fighter 22 util stance Martial Supremacy (roll again on miss, for fighter powers and melee basic attacks). Reserve maneuver isn't important, i use it to override the unusable PP encounter power, but its basically a open feat slot. 

Would there, perchance, be a way to use the planestrider boots and an eladrin ring of passage to make etheral sidestep into a teleport 3.  You use this to teleport 1 next to foe, and the last to teleport 2 squares away which prepares you for the feycharge.

Eladrin Armor already increases etheral sidestep to teleport 4, but if you want to use another armor (e.g. agile chain), the ring is a good alternative.

If you could build a 2 person team, one that administers the radiant vulnerability and grants CA (radiant advantage) to everybody, and onother that takes advantage of that the DPR would of course go through the roof.  I'm currently in that situation.  One thing that I see happening to your builds is that many of your feats are going towards getting things yourself (pelor's boon for radiant increasing, feygambit for CA, Rod of Starlight for radiant administration)  which tasks are most readily split up into 2 builds?  Even 2 feychargers (one of them looses on the catch 22).  I can see an eladrin ring of passage turning into a ring of calling.

Feb 9, 2010 -- 1:38PM, borg285 wrote:

Would there, perchance, be a way to use the planestrider boots and an eladrin ring of passage to make etheral sidestep into a teleport 3.  You use this to teleport 1 next to foe, and the last to teleport 2 squares away which prepares you for the feycharge. 

This is already an essential part of the Arcane Slasher, though since the base build is not eladrin I add Mark of Passage to get Sidestep to teleport 3.
 
teleport 1 adjacent, then back 2, then charge, rinse and repeat.  Roundabout charge doubles the slash damage, too.  Combining Feycharger and Slasher just feels right...

Feb 9, 2010 -- 1:58PM, borg285 wrote:

If you could build a 2 person team, one that administers the radiant vulnerability and grants CA (radiant advantage) to everybody, and onother that takes advantage of that the DPR would of course go through the roof.  I'm currently in that situation.  One thing that I see happening to your builds is that many of your feats are going towards getting things yourself (pelor's boon for radiant increasing, feygambit for CA, Rod of Starlight for radiant administration)  which tasks are most readily split up into 2 builds?  Even 2 feychargers (one of them looses on the catch 22).  I can see an eladrin ring of passage turning into a ring of calling.

Yes, definitely. The 2 feychargers could even take each other along on the ride via fey step trailblazer, adding the second feychargers slashing wake damage to each (fey step-) teleport. I guess you could probably reach 1000 DPR with this two-eladrin team, even with the loss of one catch22...

@SongNSilence-  Awesome stuff man.  I could never figure out how feycharging worked before I sat down and read the thread, pretty amazing numbers.  Thanks for explaining everything!

I'm sorry for the dumb question (I'm new to these forums, so please don't blame me too much  ). I cannot figure out how did you manage to get 4 attacks with Fey Charge. One attack is for the charge, one is for Eladrin Swordmage Advance, and one (i guess) from White lotus master riposte / aegis, but i cannot find out the fourth.

 Thanks in advance 

Planestrider boots allow you to teleport twice as part of the same move.  This activates ESA twice.

Feb 10, 2010 -- 1:23AM, Netarious wrote:

Planestrider boots allow you to teleport twice as part of the same move.  This activates ESA twice.

Oh, sure - i didn't noticed that item. Thanks for the fast answer!

A few suggestions about the Long Night Feycharger:

1.  The Rod of Starlight uses a property rather than an item power, you only need one.  You'd be better off buying a +4 or +5 version than 5 +2s.
2.  Replacing Reserve Maneuver with Pervasive Light will add your vulnerability damage again to your attacks, which is a +4 to +5 bonus per attack once you upgrade your Rod of Starlight.
3. Replacing your Belt of Vim with a Belt of Breaching provides an inherent healing ability to compensate for the loss of Fort defense, and gives you the equivalent of Misty Step, which will allow free damage any time a cursed enemy drops (ie, use your first quickcurse rod to curse both your target and any minion in sight, and anytime a minion drops you get a free slash). 

Feb 9, 2010 -- 3:56PM, Ashern wrote:

@SongNSilence-  Awesome stuff man.  I could never figure out how feycharging worked before I sat down and read the thread, pretty amazing numbers.  Thanks for explaining everything!

Thanks, glad you like it

Feb 11, 2010 -- 4:58PM, AlphatheGreat wrote:

A few suggestions about the Long Night Feycharger:

1.  The Rod of Starlight uses a property rather than an item power, you only need one.  You'd be better off buying a +4 or +5 version than 5 +2s.
2.  Replacing Reserve Maneuver with Pervasive Light will add your vulnerability damage again to your attacks, which is a +4 to +5 bonus per attack once you upgrade your Rod of Starlight.
3. Replacing your Belt of Vim with a Belt of Breaching provides an inherent healing ability to compensate for the loss of Fort defense, and gives you the equivalent of Misty Step, which will allow free damage any time a cursed enemy drops (ie, use your first quickcurse rod to curse both your target and any minion in sight, and anytime a minion drops you get a free slash). 

Good suggestions, thank you. I will implement both 1 and 3, but i wonder how pervasive light would work: Radiant One already adds radiant damage to each attack, so there is no non-radiant attack left to trigger pervasive light ?

Feb 12, 2010 -- 7:44AM, SongNSilence wrote:

Good suggestions, thank you. I will implement both 1 and 3, but i wonder how pervasive light would work: Radiant One already adds radiant damage to each attack, so there is no non-radiant attack left to trigger pervasive light ?

The argument is that they trigger at different times:  Pervasive light triggers when you attack with a radiant power that does not do radiant damage, it therefore adds damage.  Radiant One triggers when you do damage so you get a double dip on their vulnerability.

Most DMs will smack you over the head for proposing such, then go on as though it didn't work.

Feb 12, 2010 -- 7:50AM, borg285 wrote:

Feb 12, 2010 -- 7:44AM, SongNSilence wrote:

Good suggestions, thank you. I will implement both 1 and 3, but i wonder how pervasive light would work: Radiant One already adds radiant damage to each attack, so there is no non-radiant attack left to trigger pervasive light ?

The argument is that they trigger at different times:  Pervasive light triggers when you attack with a radiant power that does not do radiant damage, it therefore adds damage.  Radiant One triggers when you do damage so you get a double dip on their vulnerability.

Most DMs will smack you over the head for proposing such, then go on as though it didn't work.

Ah i see. I hit with a power that deals radiant damage (even if the radiant damage itself is triggered by dealing damage,. If it was hitting with a power without the radiant keyword, i would argee, but Pervasive Light requires both hitting and a power that deals no radiant damage -> it's a little too much creative reading for me.

I've been to switzerland and nothing comes close to the cheese of radiant one + pervasive light.

Feb 12, 2010 -- 8:04AM, borg285 wrote:

I've been to switzerland and nothing comes close to the cheese of radiant one + pervasive light.

Ironic, as I'm usually a defender of the more conservative reading of rules.

Very well, pervasive light cheese is out  

Feb 9, 2010 -- 12:45PM, SongNSilence wrote:

Long Night Arcane Feycharger

There is a new option for charge precision (Martial Supremacy, fighter 22 encounter stance), combined with barrage bracers it allowed me to switch the usual PP and ED for Long Night Scion + Radiant One. This build shamelessly borrows from AlphatheGreat's Arcane Slasher, i just made it work with the arcane feycharger. Damage is 529 DPR, so it looks like the arcane version is ahead of the divine one again

Build Show

Race: Eladrin
Class: Warlock|Swordmage
Aegis: Assault
Multi: Fighter, Rogue
PP: Long Night Scion
ED: Radiant One

Stats:
Str: 12->14
Con: 18->20->26 (6)
Dex: 10-12->14
Int: 12-14->22 (6)
Wis: 8->10
Cha: 12->14

Feats:
Fighter MC, Rogue MC, Fey Charge [MP], Fey Gambit [MP], Roundabout Charge, Eladrin Swordmage Advance [AP], Weapon Focus(heavy blade), Focused Expertise (heavy blade), Armor Proficiency(Chain), Arcane Admixture (Thunder, Eldrich Strike), Echoes of Thunder, Acolyte Power(Martial Surpremacy), Weapon Proficiency (fullblade), White Lotus Riposte, White Lotus Master Riposte, Lasting Frost, Arcane Familiar (hand), Reserve Maneuver


Powers:
at-will: Eldrich Strike , 1 Swordmage
encounter: PP, 3 open
daily: , PP, 3 open
utility: Martial Supremacy [Dragon 382], Etheral Stidestep(warlock 10), PP, 4 open

Gear:
hand1: Frost Fullblade+6 [AV] + Shard of merciless cold+5
armor: Eladrin Chain+6 [PHB]
neck: Cloak of Translocation+6 [AV2]
hands: Gloves of Ice
head: Horned Helmet [AV]
arms: Barrage Bracers [AV2]
feet: Planestrider Boots [MotP]
belt: Belt of Vim [AV]
ring1: Shadow Band [AV]
ring2: Opal Ring of Rememberance
boon: Pelors Sun Blessing
misc: 5x Dancing Fullblade+4 [PHB], 5x quickcurse rod (lvl2), 5x rod of starlight (lvl 10)

To hit and damage Show

To Hit & damage calculations

to hit (round1):
+15(lvl)+8(con)+6(enh)+3(weapon)+3(expertise)+2(CA)= +37 (+38 on charge)

to hit (round2+):
+42 (or better, via barrage bracers)

damage mba:
hit: 2d12+8(con)+6(enh)+3(focus)+5(coldvuln)+4(cold)+5(shard)+6(int)+8(boon)+2(rod) = 2d12 + 47 (60) [+3d6 on charge]
crit: 6d6+3d12+71 (111.5) [+18 on charge]

dancing blade:
hit: 2d12+8(con)+4(enh)+3(focus)+6(int)+8(boon)+2(rod) = 2d12+31 (44)
crit: 4d6+3d12+55 (88.5)

0.9975 hit total - 0.0525 crit = 0.945 hit, 0.0525 crit

damage charge attack: 0.945*(70.5)+0.0525*(129.5) = 73.42125

damage normal mba: 0.945*(60)+0.0525*(111.5) = 62.55375

damage dancing: 0.945*(44)+0.0525*(88.5) = 46.22625

Attacks: 1xCharge+2xESA+1xcatch22+1xdancing

total DPR 5 attacks: 307.30875 + 103.6375 (echoes of thunder*) + 10.5 (curse) + 108(teleports) -> 529 DPR

Additional damage echoes of thunder [Feat, PHB2]

per hit:
 0.9775*3(normal) = 2.9325

after fifth:  5*2.9325 -> + 14.6625 at start of round 2,

5 attacks, after round 1
1: 14.6625
2: 17.595
3: 20.5275
4: 23.46
5: 27.3925
-----
+103.6375

Additional damage teleport:
6(int)+6(radiant one)+5(cold vuln)+8(pelors)+2(rod) = 27 per teleport, 108 total

Howto Show

Martial Supremacy is a "on miss, roll again" power, so while its not very good at crithunting, its assuring we do hit.
Barrage Bracers add untyped +1 to hit vs target for every melee hit.

we have CA due to fey gambit -> radiant one triggers. Radiant vulnerability can be provided with quickcurse rods + rod of starlight (currently 5 each for 10 rounds of combat, but they are low lvl items, could buy a lot more). They can be drawn/stowed with the hand familiar, and using them is also a free action. Result: +int radiant damage + radiant vulnerability to all damage.

standard: charge + 2x ESA + 2x teleport damage
minor action: is used to maintain dancing weapon
move action: is used for Etheral Stidestep, enhanced by Eladrin Armor and split by Planestrider Boots -> 2x teleport damage
interrupt: white lotus riposte or swordmage assault

Note: The DPR value can be a little misleading: You will need a "warmup round" every time you aquire a new target (the first round is still dealing more than 300), then you'll have two high damage rounds with radiant vulnerability for full DPR, and after that the damage will drop again to about 400 due to the loss of radiant vulnerability). However, most creatures won't survive three rounds (about 1400 damage), so you'll have to switch targets anyway (getting two new rounds of vulnerability etc.). Should a target still stands in round 4, the non-radiant damage will surely finish it off.   

I am trying to see how this would look in the Character Builder.  The first hangup, I can not get past how you are getting your two multi-class feats of Fighter and Rogue in this build with out any bard levels?

Feb 12, 2010 -- 1:46PM, Mathus wrote:

I am trying to see how this would look in the Character Builder.  The first hangup, I can not get past how you are getting your two multi-class feats of Fighter and Rogue in this build with out any bard levels?

choose a background from forgotten realms: windrise ports. 

So, I took a snapshot of the feycharger concept a few months ago, and built something of my own from it. This isn't a build that's intended to be quite so optimized as the death-machines I see here(seriously, using Reserve Maneuver to pick up another encounter like that is inspired) but I would like some advise on where potentially to take the character. This is a character I play in a live, real game. 

I don't feel it's abusive, nor does the DM. We're reaching lvl 12 soon though, and I'm curious about ideas on where to take him from here. Any suggestions would be much appreciated, but please don't make ridiculous gear suggestions would be unachievable in a live game (5 salves of power are beyond my means, for example). Now that I've got that out, here's the build:


<sub>Level: 11
Race: Eladrin
Class: Avenger|Swordmage
Aegis: Assault
Multi: Fighter
Background:  Auspicious Birth
PP: Son of Mercy

Stats:  
13 -> 14 STR
10 -> 11 CON
08 -> 11 DEX
13 -> 18 INT
18 -> 21 WIS
10 -> 11 CHA

Feats: 
Hybrid Talent (Armor of Faith, PHB3), Battle Awareness (Fighter MC, MP), Domain of Skill (DP), Focused Expertise (Heavy Blade), Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade), Eladrin Swordmage Advance (AP), Fey Charge (MP)

Powers:
(A: 1a) Overwhelming Strike, (S: 1a) Swordburst, (S: 1e) Blazing Pursuit, (S: 1d) Frost Backlash, (A: 2u) Refocus Emnity, (A: 3e) Sequestering Strike, (A: 5d) Executioner's Cloak, (Skill: 6u), Mighty Sprint, (A: 7e) Splinter the Formation, (A: 9d) Holy Ardor.

Gear: 
+2 Sunblade Fullblade, +2 Battle Harness Cloth, +2 Cloak of Translocation, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Siberys Shard of Radiance, Bag of Holding.</sub> 


(Also, if someone could inform me of the handy formatting to hide the build within spoiler tags, I'd appreciate it.)

 

Alright, found it:

Mark of Finding: when an adjacent enemy who grants combat advantage to you shifts, you can shift 1 into a square it vacates as a free action.

For Eberron feychargers, at least, this is an effective means of ensuring the catch-22 functions properly without having to work to get reach.

Feb 13, 2010 -- 12:20AM, AlphatheGreat wrote:

Alright, found it:

Mark of Finding: when an adjacent enemy who grants combat advantage to you shifts, you can shift 1 into a square it vacates as a free action.

For Eberron feychargers, at least, this is an effective means of ensuring the catch-22 functions properly without having to work to get reach.

Thanks, good idea ! Added it to the long night scion build. (I'll update the others when MP2 is out)

Nice one.

i didn't read the thread i'm just wondering if anyone has tried to pull this off with an assassin with twilight phantom step

For the Long Night Feycharger:
As an alternative to the Mark of Finding, taking White Lotus Hindrance combined with a Ring of Windows allows you to completely lock down your target.
1.  Slashes slow your opponent.
2.  Hindrance ensures adjacent squares to you are difficult terrain.  Make sure your adjacent square is not a diagonal one to your opponent, and the opponent can not move to either side (can't shift or move through the difficult terrain), leaving only a back move to shift/move away.
3.  Your teleports block off the squares you leave to movement.  So when you do your charging/slashing, use your teleports to block off the opponent's exit routes.

This has the advantage of not being Eberron-specific, and precludes the possibility of your opponent just eating an OA to get away from you.

My latest update to the Arcane Slasher puts its DPR above the Long Night Feycharger for the last 3/5 encounters per day, and only 6 behind for the first 2.  The key was the Shadowrift Blade +3 offhand, which combos with the Ring of Free Time to nullify the damage cost of the blade while still giving us a free splitable teleport every time we hit the target.

It would be even more potent for the feycharger, as it gets 2 more attacks per turn than the Slasher.

Mar 1, 2010 -- 9:53AM, AlphatheGreat wrote:

My latest update to the Arcane Slasher puts its DPR above the Long Night Feycharger for the last 3/5 encounters per day, and only 6 behind for the first 2.  The key was the Shadowrift Blade +3 offhand, which combos with the Ring of Free Time to nullify the damage cost of the blade while still giving us a free splitable teleport every time we hit the target.

It would be even more potent for the feycharger, as it gets 2 more attacks per turn than the Slasher.

The shadowrift blade would not let ESA trigger with it's simple teleport 2.  Planestrider specifically splits the teleport into 2 parts.  You don't get an attack with every teleport you get as a result of you feycharging.  I'm quite impressed with this output.

Mar 1, 2010 -- 9:55AM, borg285 wrote:

The shadowrift blade would not let ESA trigger with it's simple teleport 2.  Planestrider specifically splits the teleport into 2 parts.  You don't get an attack with every teleport you get as a result of you feycharging.  I'm quite impressed with this output.

This is true.  Regardless, the Feycharger as constituted gets 5 attacks per turn (1 charge, 2 ESA, 1 Master Riposte, 1 Dancing Weapon), all of which ramp up to a higher chance of hitting due to Echoes of Thunder.  Compared to the Slasher which only gets 3 attacks per turn, that's an extra 4 slashes per round.  If the Long Night Feycharger hits with all 5 attacks, that's 10 slashes, which could get up to 350 damage.  With the high hit rate that a Feycharger gets, that would be close to 300(?) expected damage, which would shoot the Long Night Feycharger from 550 dpr to 850 dpr...

Long Night Feycharger (1001 DPR)- with full credits to both AlphatheGreat and Nox Noctis, they had all the good ideas making this possible, i just added it to the feycharger.

Build Show
To Hit & damage calculations Show

Why are you going dagger when you could be going shortsword?
also since the enemy is going to be going the less damageing route he will attack you which triggers white lotus riposte for an additional 7 + extra stuff? 

On a practical side one could opt for an eladrin ring of passage rather than go for chain armor prof and go with leather for more AC?

how are you gaining traingin in acrobatics for roundabout charge?  And please explain what it does for the build.  I never understood.

Also please explain why you are taking fierce vitality when you're taking ghostly vitality.  You already have the life charm so you won't worry about failing death saving throws.  Instead take Death's quickening for an extra minor action teleport and have a sheathed eldritch blade so you can teleport as a minor and use the extra minor this feat grants you.

On a practical note wouldn't twofold curse(fey pact) be a huge benefit seeing as you might then be able to more easily get around the battlefield.  I know it's not OP for DPR calculations but just saying.

Mar 1, 2010 -- 9:05PM, borg285 wrote:

how are you gaining traingin in acrobatics for roundabout charge?  And please explain what it does for the build.  I never understood.

Also please explain why you are taking fierce vitality when you're taking ghostly vitality.  You already have the life charm so you won't worry about failing death saving throws.  

On a practical note wouldn't twofold curse(fey pact) be a huge benefit seeing as you might then be able to more easily get around the battlefield.  I know it's not OP for DPR calculations but just saying. 

Eladrin Education is usually the preferred means to get acrobatics.
Roundabout charge is needed to bypass the requirement that charges take you directly to the nearest adjacent square.  As written, the rules will allow you to fey charge directly at your opponent, getting one charge attack and one ESA attack.  Roundabout charge lets you take advantage of your planestrider boots, and be adjacent to your opponent before actually finishing the split fey step.  This lets you teleport adjacent, get one ESA attack, teleport again and get another ESA attack before making your charge attack.  Not to mention getting a Slash on your second teleport.  Without roundabout charge, you can't technically make that second teleport.



Additionally, are there any means to add the radiant keyword to eldritch strike that don't require a weapon dedicated to the purpose?  If so, you could take Deva Heritage and Radiant Recovery to gain conmod temp hp every time you hit with a radiant power.  At +9 conmod, with a Ring of Free Time, that's 19 damage absorbed every time you trigger your Shadowrift Blades(since they only trigger when you hit, and the Ring of Free Time applies separately for each blade).  The remaining 1 damage is automatically covered by Ankhmon's Bracers.

Sadly he took revenant so he doesn't get the training.

Mar 1, 2010 -- 9:19PM, AlphatheGreat wrote:

Additionally, are there any means to add the radiant keyword to eldritch strike that don't require a weapon dedicated to the purpose?  If so, you could take Deva Heritage and Radiant Recovery to gain conmod temp hp every time you hit with a radiant power.  At +9 conmod, with a Ring of Free Time, that's 19 damage absorbed every time you trigger your Shadowrift Blades(since they only trigger when you hit, and the Ring of Free Time applies separately for each blade).  The remaining 1 damage is automatically covered by Ankhmon's Bracers.

Unfortunately not, same for the thunder keyword i think (which would add another 100 DPR with echoes of thunder -> more than 1000DPR total). Ring of free time + fleece of renewal + bracers would reduce dpr to self to 14.5, but i think the revenant trick is also doing the job fine (you even are insubstantial due to that).

Mar 1, 2010 -- 8:34PM, borg285 wrote:

Why are you going dagger when you could be going shortsword?
also since the enemy is going to be going the less damageing route he will attack you which triggers white lotus riposte for an additional 7 + extra stuff? 

Shortsword it is, i will change it. I cannot predict how the enemy will act, so i didn't add the slashing wake damage from swordmage assault or white lotus riposte, but you are right actual damage is either +7 or +64 higher.

Mar 1, 2010 -- 8:40PM, borg285 wrote:

On a practical side one could opt for an eladrin ring of passage rather than go for chain armor prof and go with leather for more AC?

Good idea. This would also free up a feat for skill training (which indeed seems necessary due to the change to revenant, unfortunately). That or the ring of free time suggested by AlphatheGreat.

Mar 1, 2010 -- 9:05PM, borg285 wrote:

how are you gaining traingin in acrobatics for roundabout charge?  And please explain what it does for the build.  I never understood.

What AlphatheGreat said . But i indeed need to get skill training, probably with the freed up feat slot from chain proficiency.

Also please explain why you are taking fierce vitality when you're taking ghostly vitality.  You already have the life charm so you won't worry about failing death saving throws. 

Without fierce vitality, i would still drop unconscious after the saving throw (fail or no fail). 

Instead take Death's quickening for an extra minor action teleport and have a sheathed eldritch blade so you can teleport as a minor and use the extra minor this feat grants you.

On a practical note wouldn't twofold curse(fey pact) be a huge benefit seeing as you might then be able to more easily get around the battlefield.  I know it's not OP for DPR calculations but just saying.

If i get some free feat slots, death's quickening, twofold pact and weapon focus would be prime candidates...

What about the fact that you drop to 0 or fewer and heal every round.  assumming the monster is going to be dealing you damage when it's not your turn thus you'll be starting your turn sub-0(puns intended) then choose to remain conscious, yet needing to make death saving throws at the end of your turn, and get your standard...then gaining HP from the bracers, at which point according to PHB 295:
   Become Conscious: As soon as you have a current hit point total that’s higher than 0, you become conscious and are no longer dying. (You are still proneuntil you take an action to stand up.)

thus need not the feat that lets you stay conscious because healing gave that to you.  You still need to make a death saving throw because you started you turn dying and the the following from the same page



each round.

an extreemly cheesy interpretation of unnatural vitality lets you take a standard, move, minor every time you fall to 0 or below which happens most of the time we attack (assuming we are at 5 HP or lower)
at 5- HP, we attack and hit, use the shadow rift blades as a free action before we heal and drop to 0 triggering unnatural vitality.  We choose to remain conscious we can then take a standard, move and minor.  We then heal hopefully only 5- HP, rinse and repeat.

Here are some nice pics you might consider 
 
and another for good measure

I don't think you understood me on the riposte/slashing from aegis teleport.  He has 2 options:
attack me: riposte of 7 int cold(cold vulnerability) + 7(radiant one) radiant and fire(radiant vulnerability) = more than 7
attack someone else: teleport twice more than simply attacking you.  
I guess in this sense you're acting as a defender as the enemy might die not as quickly if he attacks you, but then again with as much pain as you're causing him he might just provoke the "kill me quick" method. 

Mar 2, 2010 -- 7:04AM, borg285 wrote:

What about the fact that you drop to 0 or fewer and heal every round.  assumming the monster is going to be dealing you damage when it's not your turn thus you'll be starting your turn sub-0(puns intended) then choose to remain conscious, yet needing to make death saving throws at the end of your turn, and get your standard...then gaining HP from the bracers, at which point according to PHB 295:
   Become Conscious: As soon as you have a current hit point total that’s higher than 0, you become conscious and are no longer dying. (You are still proneuntil you take an action to stand up.)

thus need not the feat that lets you stay conscious because healing gave that to you.  You still need to make a death saving throw because you started you turn dying and the the following from the same page

Death Saving Throw: When you are dying, you

need to make a saving throw at the end of your turn

each round.

During my turn, i attack several times, each time regaining some hitpoints (getting above 0), then loosing some hitpoints (possibly dropping below) from additional teleports. So after the last teleport, i might be below 0, and its the end of my turn -> i have to roll a death save. Without fierce vitality, i will drop unconscious after this saving throw.

If i'm unconscious, i loose: I cannot take actions, so white lotus master riposte or swordmage assault won't trigger (i cannot take actions, and interrupts are actions) -> the enemy can finish me off...

With fierce vitality however, I can choose to remain conscious until i fail 2 death saves, which will never happen (due to life charm).

About the cheesy interpretation of unnatural vitality: As long as it doesn't allow to "gain" a standard action, or allows to take an "extra" standard action, i don't see how such an interpretation might fly...

Mar 2, 2010 -- 8:01AM, borg285 wrote:

I don't think you understood me on the riposte/slashing from aegis teleport.  He has 2 options:
attack me: riposte of 7 int cold(cold vulnerability) + 7(radiant one) radiant and fire(radiant vulnerability) = more than 7
attack someone else: teleport twice more than simply attacking you.  
I guess in this sense you're acting as a defender as the enemy might die not as quickly if he attacks you, but then again with as much pain as you're causing him he might just provoke the "kill me quick" method. 

Hm, right forgot the basic riposte damage also triggers radiant one. I will add the minimum extra damage to DPR.
 

The more i look at fey step combination the more i feel that there should be a limit. 900+ dpr is getting ridiculous. Not that i have anything against the posters here with trying to squeeze dpr (i actually feel a lot of respect for peope who actually can come up with this), but this type of dpr is really spoiling the game if u actually throw this onto a LFR table. As in, it's not like it's a lv 30 only build. And 900+ damage novas arent exactly that common unless u happen to be certain very optimised striker builds. Of course, u can call this the ultimate god slayer since this character can probably massacre lv 30 standards in 1 turn and a whole party of them would finish off any god in 1 turn.

Mar 2, 2010 -- 8:22AM, elsoloistz wrote:

The more i look at fey step combination the more i feel that there should be a limit. 900+ dpr is getting ridiculous. Not that i have anything against the posters here with trying to squeeze dpr (i actually feel a lot of respect for peope who actually can come up with this), but this type of dpr is really spoiling the game if u actually throw this onto a LFR table. As in, it's not like it's a lv 30 only build. And 900+ damage novas arent exactly that common unless u happen to be certain very optimised striker builds. Of course, u can call this the ultimate god slayer since this character can probably massacre lv 30 standards in 1 turn and a whole party of them would finish off any god in 1 turn.

heh, just got to 1001 DPR . (other than that, this is obviously not meant for the table in a normal session, like the 100 attack nova its a more or less theoretical build...)

Edit: Well, that was short lived.

Anyway, here is the post-update version (still 948 DPR):

Long Night Feycharger, March 2 update Show

To Hit & damage calculations Show

Remember that summary I typed up of feycharging that you liked?  Do you remember where I posted that?  I want to use it somewhere, but I can't find it for the life of me   :-\

Mar 8, 2010 -- 10:17AM, AlphatheGreat wrote:

but I can't find it for the life of me   :-\

Oh noooooooos, we's going to loose AlphaTheGreat.  We's so sad.  a moment of silence for AlphaTheGreat......Ok, I's over it nao.

Mar 8, 2010 -- 11:19AM, borg285 wrote:

Mar 8, 2010 -- 10:17AM, AlphatheGreat wrote:

but I can't find it for the life of me   :-\

Oh noooooooos, we's going to loose AlphaTheGreat.  We's so sad.  a moment of silence for AlphaTheGreat......Ok, I's over it nao.

Mar 8, 2010 -- 10:17AM, AlphatheGreat wrote:

Remember that summary I typed up of feycharging that you liked?  Do you remember where I posted that?  I want to use it somewhere, but I can't find it for the life of me   :-\

Totally forgot that, its now part of the main post. The original post was here. Thanx again .

SongNSilence, I'm very impressed by the feycharger builds of yours so first let me congratulate you. It's really amazing stuff both mechanically and fluff-wise so keep it up!

I just want to ask, in the Scion of Long Night version I noticed that the race is (Revenant) Eladrin as opposed to just Eladrin. Why is that so? Is there any mechanical benefit coming out of it or is it a purely aesthetic decision (Revenant goes very well with the darkness and winter theme). As far as I can tell you aren't really utilizing any Revenant-specific racial feat or something... so I'm at a loss here. Please, elaborate. 

Mar 13, 2010 -- 12:49AM, LorikKhaal wrote:

SongNSilence, I'm very impressed by the feycharger builds of yours so first let me congratulate you. It's really amazing stuff both mechanically and fluff-wise so keep it up!

I just want to ask, in the Scion of Long Night version I noticed that the race is (Revenant) Eladrin as opposed to just Eladrin. Why is that so? Is there any mechanical benefit coming out of it or is it a purely aesthetic decision (Revenant goes very well with the darkness and winter theme). As far as I can tell you aren't really utilizing any Revenant-specific racial feat or something... so I'm at a loss here. Please, elaborate. 

Stat alignment for one thing.  If you could take a feat that gives you a +1 to hit and damage would you?  Going revenant gives a +2 to con.  He takes eladrin soul to get fey step so effectively he's taking 1 feat to get back to the functionality he needs while getting the benefit of having a +2 to con.

So curiousity struck me so I set out to create this guy in the builder and found a minor problem. You can't take roundabout charge without having acrobatics in some way or another. Since it is neither warlock nor swordmage power, none of the rogue MC feats allow you to pick it, and your background is used on Windrise Ports you need to burn a skill training feat.

I suspect that got lost in the crowd with the switch to revenant. They miss out on eladrin training and all that.

I think your crit numbers are slightly wrong, but in your favor.

+39 to hit, w/reroll on a miss vs 42 reflex -> .05 chance to crit on first roll + .005 chance to crit on the reroll (.1*.05) = .055 crit rate, not .525

+38 to hit, w/reroll yields .0575 crit

 +36 to hit w/dancing blade yields .0625

This doesn't mean you hit more often, your numbers are correct on that score. 

Oh, also, I'm curious if you'd considered going |Fighter instead of |swordmage.  You could still get catch 22 damage because of the fighter's combat challenge - just using of the dancing weapon attacks to deliver a fighter at will.

That one attack will have a lower to hit, but in return you get a feat back (no need to do the acolyte power swap), you can raise Int to 14 to start (no need to have starting str 12) which gives you near +24 DPR from the teleports.  Not sure how it washes out.

Also, tacticians armor, the way it seems to read, instead of bloodfire, seems like it would give you more DPR - you get +1 int mod for damage for your teleports and for you attacks.

 

Apr 9, 2010 -- 1:50AM, SterlingObsidian wrote:

Oh, also, I'm curious if you'd considered going |Fighter instead of |swordmage.  You could still get catch 22 damage because of the fighter's combat challenge - just using of the dancing weapon attacks to deliver a fighter at will.

That one attack will have a lower to hit, but in return you get a feat back (no need to do the acolyte power swap), you can raise Int to 14 to start (no need to have starting str 12) which gives you near +24 DPR from the teleports.  Not sure how it washes out.

Also, tacticians armor, the way it seems to read, instead of bloodfire, seems like it would give you more DPR - you get +1 int mod for damage for your teleports and for you attacks.

 

The fighter at will cannot be delivered through a dancing sword as it specifies a MBA, unless I've had a brain fart and forgot about a fighter at-will that counts as a MBA.

Apr 9, 2010 -- 1:50AM, SterlingObsidian wrote:

Also, tacticians armor, the way it seems to read, instead of bloodfire, seems like it would give you more DPR - you get +1 int mod for damage for your teleports and for you attacks.

Epic Destiny features do not qualify as Class Features...or powers.  Sadly.

Well, the paragon powers and features do count as class features, yes?  So you still get +1 to winter winds, which is still more damage than bloodfire

Mar 28, 2010 -- 9:36PM, CateranEnforcer77 wrote:

So curiousity struck me so I set out to create this guy in the builder and found a minor problem. You can't take roundabout charge without having acrobatics in some way or another. Since it is neither warlock nor swordmage power, none of the rogue MC feats allow you to pick it, and your background is used on Windrise Ports you need to burn a skill training feat.

I suspect that got lost in the crowd with the switch to revenant. They miss out on eladrin training and all that.

Thanks, you are right. I'll probably switch back to eladrin...

Apr 9, 2010 -- 1:08AM, SterlingObsidian wrote:

I think your crit numbers are slightly wrong, but in your favor.

+39 to hit, w/reroll on a miss vs 42 reflex -> .05 chance to crit on first roll + .005 chance to crit on the reroll (.1*.05) = .055 crit rate, not .525

+38 to hit, w/reroll yields .0575 crit

 +36 to hit w/dancing blade yields .0625

This doesn't mean you hit more often, your numbers are correct on that score. 

Thanks for catching that! I had miss only on a 1 originally (0.05) on all attack (the lower crit % from the rerolled attack thus from 0.05²). I'll make the change tomorrow (at work right now)... 

Apr 9, 2010 -- 1:50AM, SterlingObsidian wrote:

Oh, also, I'm curious if you'd considered going |Fighter instead of |swordmage.  You could still get catch 22 damage because of the fighter's combat challenge - just using of the dancing weapon attacks to deliver a fighter at will.

That one attack will have a lower to hit, but in return you get a feat back (no need to do the acolyte power swap), you can raise Int to 14 to start (no need to have starting str 12) which gives you near +24 DPR from the teleports.  Not sure how it washes out.

The hit rate is really low that way, even with the reroll (2x+28 vs AC 44). Wicked strike is quite nice (adding 2xcon to damage), but i would probably only use it with a str melee feycharger build (arcane build using fighter power -> cannot admixture -> no cold damage etc...)

Apr 9, 2010 -- 7:59AM, SterlingObsidian wrote:

Well, the paragon powers and features do count as class features, yes?  So you still get +1 to winter winds, which is still more damage than bloodfire

No, Paragon Path features do not count as class features either.

Hey Song. It's been about 20 pages or so since I helped in this thread, but it seems I'm getting back into DnD. Do you have an updated build since March? You had mentioned you were going to switch it back to Eladrin.

I'd particularly enjoy a few tips to sacrifice some DPR (I may not need 900+) for some more survivability.

Mar 2, 2010 -- 8:37AM, SongNSilence wrote:

Mar 2, 2010 -- 8:22AM, elsoloistz wrote:

The more i look at fey step combination the more i feel that there should be a limit. 900+ dpr is getting ridiculous. Not that i have anything against the posters here with trying to squeeze dpr (i actually feel a lot of respect for peope who actually can come up with this), but this type of dpr is really spoiling the game if u actually throw this onto a LFR table. As in, it's not like it's a lv 30 only build. And 900+ damage novas arent exactly that common unless u happen to be certain very optimised striker builds. Of course, u can call this the ultimate god slayer since this character can probably massacre lv 30 standards in 1 turn and a whole party of them would finish off any god in 1 turn.

heh, just got to 1001 DPR . (other than that, this is obviously not meant for the table in a normal session, like the 100 attack nova its a more or less theoretical build...)

Edit: Well, that was short lived.

Anyway, here is the post-update version (still 948 DPR):

Long Night Feycharger, March 2 update Show

Race: Revenant(Eladrin)
Class: Warlock|Swordmage
Aegis: Assault
Multi: Fighter, Rogue
PP: Long Night Scion
ED: Radiant One

Stats:
Str: 12->14
Con: 18-20->28 (6)
Dex: 10-12->14
Int: 12->20 (6)
Wis: 8->10
Cha: 12->14

Feats:
Fighter MC, Rogue MC, Fey Charge [MP], Fey Gambit [MP], Roundabout Charge, Eladrin Swordmage Advance [AP], Focused Expertise (heavy blade), Armor Proficiency(Chain), Arcane Admixture (cold, Eldritch Strike), Eladrin Soul, Acolyte Power(Martial Surpremacy), Light blade Ref(MP2), White Lotus Riposte, White Lotus Master Riposte, Lasting Frost, Arcane Familiar (hand), Deva Heritage, Radiant Recovery


Powers:
at-will: Eldrich Strike , 1 Swordmage
encounter: PP, 3 open
daily: , PP, 3 open
utility: Martial Supremacy [Dragon 382], Etheral Stidestep(warlock 10), PP, 4 open

Gear:
hand1: Shadowrift Short Sword+6 + Shard of merciless cold+5
hand2: Shadowrift Short Sword+3
armor: Bloodfire Chain+6 [PHB]
neck: +6 []
hands: Gloves of Ice
head: Horned Helmet [AV]
arms: Iron Armbands of Power [AV]
feet: Planestrider Boots [MotP]
belt: Belt of breaching [AV2]
ring1: Ring of Free Time
ring2: Eladrin Ring of Passage
boon: Pelors Sun Blessing
misc: 5x Dancing Dagger+4 [PHB], 5x quickcurse rod (lvl2), rod of starlight (lvl 25), potions of regeneratio (lvl9)

To Hit & damage calculations Show

to hit (round1):
+15(lvl)+9(con)+6(enh)+3(weapon)+3(expertise)+2(CA)= +38 (+39 on charge) vs Ref, roll again on miss

normal hit: 0.99 total -> 0.9375 hit 0.0525 crit
normal hit: 0.9775 total -> 0.925 hit 0.0525 crit
dancing hit: 0.9375 total -> 0.885 hit 0.0525 crit

damage mba:
hit: 2d6+6(item)+9(con)+6(enh)+5(coldvuln)+4(cold)+5(shard)+6(int)+9(boon)+5(rod) = 2d6+55 (62) [+3d6 on charge]
crit: 6d6+67 (88) [+18 on charge]

dancing blade:
hit: 2d6+9(con)+4(enh)+5(coldvuln)+4(cold)+5(shard)+6(int)+9(boon)+5(rod) = 2d6+53 (60)
crit: 4d6+65 (79)

0.9975 hit total - 0.0525 crit = 0.945 hit, 0.0525 crit

damage charge attack: 0.9375*(72.5)+0.0525*(106) = 73.53375

damage normal mba: 0.925*(62)+0.0525*(88) = 61.97

damage dancing: 0.885*(60)+0.0525*(79) = 57.2475

Attacks: 1xCharge+2xESA+1xcatch22+1xdancing

total DPR 5 attacks: 316.69 + 10.5 (curse) + 563.76(teleports)+33(catch22)+24(bloodfire) -> 948 DPR

Additional damage teleport:
5(int)+5(radiant one)+5(cold vuln)+9(pelors)+5(rod) = 29 per teleport

2*from charge: 58
2*from move: 58
4*from charge mba: 0.99*4*29 = 114.84
12*from normal mba: 0.9775*12*29 = 340.17
4* from dancing mba: 0.9375*4*29 = 108.75
---
total 563.76

Extra damage due to the catch 22:
a) swordmage assault teleport for 2 slashes or 64 damage
b) white lotus riposte for 32 damage: 9(riposte)+5(radiant one)+5(cold vuln)+9(pelors)+5(rod)
-> min 33 damage...

Bloodfire Chain: 5 damage for those who start adjacent to me
-> 5(armor)+5(radiant one)+9(pelors)+5(rod) = 24 damage

 

Okay... so looking at it, Focused Expertise going bye bye hurts, and the whole not having acrobatics as a Revenant as well... but you can work around those (I gave up the White Lotus duo)... but... and forgive if I'm being dumb... why do you have 2 Shadowrift blades? It's a free action at will so...?

Apr 20, 2010 -- 2:15PM, Wolf_in_the_Meadow wrote:

why do you have 2 Shadowrift blades? It's a free action at will so...?

Both blades trigger when you hit.  Powers like this don't require that you be attacking with the blade, simply wielding it...and wielding 2 counts.  So every time you hit, you get a teleport from each blade, which get split by the planestrider boots, giving you 4 teleports, with teleport damage from each.

I realized this was probably the case this morning, lol.

 

Thanks all the same.

 

Wolf.

 

 

EDIT: One question though: Would Follow-up Blow work with Eldritch Strike?

While playing around in the Character Builder I realized an Eladrin Hybrid Avenger|Swordmage Paragon Hybrid could combine both a very high AC (easily in the mid 50s) with very good accuracy and decent mobility on his feycharges (Overwhelming Strike, with Power of Skill, with Oath of Enmity).

As for the very high AC it would be made possible because of the Swordmage Warding and Armor of Faith class features, as well as the panoply of defense improving feats that can be combined with those two features (Unarmord Agility, Improved Swordmage Warding, Improved Armor of Faith, Greater Swordmage Warding, Feywild Protection). The feats should all be available with starting ability scores of Str 12, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 8 before racial adjustments.

It seemed like a decent build (I like to call it the Unstoppable Feycharger), so I thought it may be worth mentioning here.

Apr 22, 2010 -- 1:13PM, NINcubus wrote:

While playing around in the Character Builder I realized an Eladrin Hybrid Avenger|Swordmage Paragon Hybrid could combine both a very high AC (easily in the mid 50s) with very good accuracy and decent mobility on his feycharges (Overwhelming Strike, with Power of Skill, with Oath of Enmity).

As for the very high AC it would be made possible because of the Swordmage Warding and Armor of Faith class features, as well as the panoply of defense improving feats that can be combined with those two features (Unarmord Agility, Improved Swordmage Warding, Improved Armor of Faith, Greater Swordmage Warding, Feywild Protection). The feats should all be available with starting ability scores of Str 12, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 8 before racial adjustments.

It seemed like a decent build (I like to call it the Unstoppable Feycharger), so I thought it may be worth mentioning here.

You can't have both Armor of Faith and Swordmage Warding without going paragon hybrid, which will be losing out on some excellent PP features.

Apr 22, 2010 -- 1:27PM, AlphatheGreat wrote:

Apr 22, 2010 -- 1:13PM, NINcubus wrote:

While playing around in the Character Builder I realized an Eladrin Hybrid Avenger|Swordmage Paragon Hybrid could combine both a very high AC (easily in the mid 50s) with very good accuracy and decent mobility on his feycharges (Overwhelming Strike, with Power of Skill, with Oath of Enmity).

As for the very high AC it would be made possible because of the Swordmage Warding and Armor of Faith class features, as well as the panoply of defense improving feats that can be combined with those two features (Unarmord Agility, Improved Swordmage Warding, Improved Armor of Faith, Greater Swordmage Warding, Feywild Protection). The feats should all be available with starting ability scores of Str 12, Con 12, Dex 10, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 8 before racial adjustments.

It seemed like a decent build (I like to call it the Unstoppable Feycharger), so I thought it may be worth mentioning here.

You can't have both Armor of Faith and Swordmage Warding without going paragon hybrid, which will be losing out on some excellent PP features.

I agree it can be a pretty steep cost, but 6 points of AC (armor of faith, improved armor of faith) and a wide choice of encounter, utility and daily powers is not the worse trade someone can make for three paragon features.

It's an option amongst many others, one that prioritizes a character's defensive abilities. Not a bad choice on a defender class.

Bump.

Anyone actually playing a Feycharger? I'd love to see an updated playable build. 

my wife is playing one, almost an exact replica of the divine feycharer / daggermaster / sage of ages and she's loving it.  It's a bit of a pain having to resort to daggers (some paladin powers are in the 3[w] range and they're not as cool as if she had a nice full blade, but eh.)

WIth the martial power feat deft blade she almost never misses.  She's only level 23 and the lovely level 24th floating d20 is just around the corner.

As far as I know all the builds he posted here are up 2 date and legal(save a few minor details like acrobatics), but I didn't get the feat for my DM doesn't rule the planestrider boots + eladrin swordmage advance = 2 attacks.  I never saw a need for the feat thereafter.  I toned it down by removing the echoes of thunder and dancing sword(boy they're expensive) and it's quite playable.

It's getting very close to errata time. I wonder if we'll see the most broken of brokens be torn apart.

I'm more concerned with lower levels. I'd be starting at lvl 1 and have been lookin at Arcane Feycharger for a LOOONG time(since this thread started). Recently found the Arcane Slasher. I know these builds start to really take off after 11, but has anyone played the lower levels with one? Does it hold up?

I'd recommend getting the standard charging equipment for heroic tier:get an avalanche hammer, bezerker's badge, war horse(3rd) -> dire boar(6th), check to see if a vanguard adds damage while in your off hand with your DM, white lotus riposte to encourage foes to move away from you so you can charge again.
Charging is the easiest way for almost any class to get awesome damage in heroic.
A pure feycharger has a hard time distinguishing it self as a feycharger pre-paragon. 

Ok, so I know a couple people had asked for level by levels so I put this together in the character builder and played it a few weeks ago in a big encounter against Orcus and a few buddies.  I went with the Divine Feycharger with one important change.  The current one in the main post suggests taking Morninglord for Paragon Path, but as near as I can figure that actually doesn't work at all since it has a deity requirement that is a deity that does not have Arcana as a domain, which is required for Power of Arcana which makes so much of the build work.  So I went with Daggermaster instead.  I don't know that's actually the best choice but I like it.  Where I changed anything if I think about it I'll briefly mention why.  I will also post a couple of actual round damage results so those who are curious can see how it worked in play!

The build:
Eladrin Hybrid Paladin/Swordmage
Hybrid Paladin Fortitude
Deity Corellon
Windrise Ports background

Ability Scores:
Str 11--15
Con 10--12
Dex 10--14
Int 14--22
Wis 8--10
Cha 18--26
(Note: Why Int? For the basic build, none of the stats other than Cha matter, but there's a power I thought might actually be used occasionally called Thunder Riposte that is Int based)

Skills:
Diplomacy
History
Arcana
Acrobatics
Bluff (Sly Dodge)
Streetwise (Student of the Sword)
Paragon: Daggermaster
Epic: Sage of Ages

Feats:
01: Hybrid Talent (Paladin Armor)
02: Eladrin Swordmage Advance
04: Power of Arcana
06: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
08: Student of the Sword
10: White Lotus Riposte
11: Sly Dodge
12: Fey Charge
14: Roundabout Charge
16: White Lotus Master Riposte
18: Arcane Admixture (Virtuous Strike, Thunder)
20: Echoes of Thunder
21: Fey Gambit
22: White Lotus Enervation
24: Punishing Radiance
26: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
28: Two-Weapon Fighting
30: Two-Weapon Opening
(Note: rearranging these might be better at certain levels.  Pretty sure these are the best ones to have though just in general)

Powers:
01: Luring Strike
01: Virtuous Strike
01: Valorous Smite
01: Dance of the Sword
02: Perfect Recall
03: Blastback Swipe
05: Unyielding Faith
06: Silversteel Veil
07: Blade of Light
09: Shackles of Justice
10: Tactician's Measure
13: Castigating Strike
15: Tower of Faith
16: Death Ward
17: Spidersilk Slash
19: Corona of Blinding Radiance
22: Giant's Might
23: Thunder Riposte
25: Quicksilver Blade
27: Restricting Smite
29: Mirrorblade Army

Items:
Runic Godplate Armor +6
Bloodiron Dagger +6
Symbol of Divine Light +4
Cloak of Translocation +6
Gauntlets of Destruction (paragon tier)
Planestrider Boots (paragon tier)
War Ring (paragon tier)
Dancing Dagger +4 (x4)
Reckless Dagger +4 (off-hand)
Horned Helm (paragon tier)
Ring of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier)
Bracers of Mighty Striking (paragon tier)
Belt of Vim (paragon tier)
Siberys Shard of Radiance (epic tier)
Strikeback Tattoo (heroic tier)
Talent Shard (level 23)
The Raven Queen's Shroud (level 23)
Dice of Auspicious Fortune (paragon tier)
Salve of Power (heroic tier)
Solitaire (Aquamarine) (paragon tier)
Potion of Life (epic tier)
Potion of Regeneration (epic tier)
Potion of Recovery (epic tier) (x4)
Siberys Shard of Radiance (paragon tier) (x5)
(Note: so the bloodiron dagger has the +5 shard, and the reckless and 4 dancing each have +3 shards.  This leaves 206,800 gp for assorted other things)


So here's the fun stuff, actual gameplay!
(Note: a warlord in the party also had an effect running giving everyone a free basic attack anytime anyone gets a critical hit)

Rolls stored in Dice of Auspicious Fortune (5, 8, 19)

The party approached a large throne room, and was given enough advance warning to have one round of buff only activities.  I rolled a 16 on my "pre round" d20 roll, so my first three actions were
[Minor] Talent Shard for +5 arcana (bringing me to +47 total)
[Minor] Trick of Knowledge, then used the 16 to get at 63 total, giving me "all four" benefits
[Minor] Meditation of the blade

Then as the combat started, I let the main group go in first and used my first actual round for more buffing
[Minor] Giant's Might
[Minor] Raven Queen's Shroud targeting Orcus
[Minor] Release a Dancing weapon

One of the other creatures in the fight was causing some problems with it's threatening reach, so I decided I would go after it first, letting the other defender in the group get started on Orcus
[Move] Get closer to the other enemy
[Minor] take out Reckless weapon
[Standard] Start the feychargin!  Second round (first round of attacking) results were 3 out of 3 hits for
43,
47,
51
[Free] Dancing Weapon hit for
51
(total 192)

Creature's turn: Swung at me and missed, I hit it for
56

Next round:
[Minor] Quicksilver Blade stance
[Move] back up to charge
[Standard] more feychargin! all hit for
57,
62,
65
[Free] Dancing Dagger attack hits for
67
(total including riposte 307)

Creature's turn: Hit me for some trivial damage, I hit for
58

Next round:
[Move] back up for charge
[Standard] feychargin! two hits for
65,
67 followed by a crit for
125
Crit triggers: Creature (and also Orcus was within 5) are now vulnerable 15 radiant.  Warlord power gives me a basic, plus off hand, plus burning Solitaire for one additional free basic attack, all hits for
84,
87,
93
[Minor] Attack hits for
95
[Free] Dancing Dagger hits for
100
(total including riposte 774)
This took down that critter

THEN TIME TO GO AFTER ORCUS:
[Move] get into LoS (was behind a column)
[Standard] FEYCHARGIN! First attack not rolling, I want to use the 19 from the Dice of Auspicious Fortune here to push Orcus' radiant vulnerability to 25 for this whole round.  Orcus responded by trying to tail smash me but it missed, and I hit him back for
97 Crit does
142 damage
Triggers 2 additional attacks (Warlord, off-hand) off-hand hit for 
116 and then the main hand attack critted for
160, triggering another off-hand hit for and vulnerability is now 35
119.  The second teleport attack and charge hit for
119,
130
[Minor] Attack hits for
128
[Free] Dancing Weapon hits for
129
(total 1140)

I was pretty happy with that round

There were a couple more rounds of combat where I did
748 damage total and
814 damage total respectively, against other tough foes we were facing at the time.

All in all, it was a good time lol

May 16, 2010 -- 1:35PM, Totino wrote:

I went with the Divine Feycharger with one important change.  The current one in the main post suggests taking Morninglord for Paragon Path, but as near as I can figure that actually doesn't work at all since it has a deity requirement that is a deity that does not have Arcana as a domain, which is required for Power of Arcana which makes so much of the build work.  So I went with Daggermaster instead.  I don't know that's actually the best choice but I like it.  Where I changed anything if I think about it I'll briefly mention why.  I will also post a couple of actual round damage results so those who are curious can see how it worked in play!

The problem with Daggermaster in this build is that the expanded crit range only works on Rogue powers and Daggermaster path powers.

Yes, and that Fey Charge was hit with errata, making the use of Eladrin Swordmage Advance niche and no longer part of the core mechanic of Fey Charge.

Honestly, Fey Charge needs to be rebuilt from the ground up for post-errata, and no one can expect it to be a DPR king. The most it will do is get charge bonuses each round and White Lotus Master Riposte + Aegis as a way to ensure a second attack.

On the other hand, those still playing with Slashers will almost certainly be distraught after the August (iirc) errata. There's simply no way that Radiant One or some other element will not get hit. My money is on Radiant One though as adding to any instance of damage is just too valuable when nothing else has that effect, even if it is really cool. So Fey Charge fans need not feel abandoned. They will soon be joined by many more, I predict.

My Feycharger (12th Eladrin Swordmage|Warlock MC Fighter) is designed around Polearm Momentum and Headsmans Chop to prone, and take advantage of prone, enemies.  The Attribute tax of PM seems severe at first, but it just means you have to dump Str, Int, Cha - basically useless stats anyway for a character that's 99% Con based.  There's no "charge every round" and I'm more of an AoE Striker than anything else since my nova round usually consists of Ooze Incarnate and Howl of Doom.  Assuming Slashers are going to get hit by nerfs, and Fey Charge is already half-dead, the single target DPR of the eladrin SM|Lock build falls behind and even WLR can't help you keep up.

I can't really say I'm sad to see this build go, it abused every piece of cheese in the pantry.

Jul 3, 2010 -- 6:18PM, Zathris wrote:

and Fey Charge is already half-dead

In my opinion, Fey Charge is extremely close to what the designers intended.

However, the Divine Arcane Feycharger (stereotypically avenger, swordmage, fighter for precisely one feat, and maybe rogue or another class) is no longer worth the bother.

The pure martial feycharger remains ALMOST as good as it was before. Except instead of being fighter/rogue it will be fighter/warlord. And when it teleports it will get combat advantage over one adjacent enemy (Feywild Flanker) instead of all adjacent enemies (Fey Gambit which no longer works for the Feycharger). (But Feywild Flanker offers other advantages for Eladrin who also have some other way of teleporting.)