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4 years ago ::
Apr 20, 2009 - 10:20PM
#21
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How viable is this character at intervals before 30? Does he put out DPR that is comparative to other DPR builds like stormwarden? Can we see some of that pre-30 data? Or are you waiting til you see PHB2 classes in Hybrid form to complete the build?
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4 years ago ::
Apr 21, 2009 - 6:38AM
#22
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I wonder if instead of using a Wizard|Rogue this build might be better through Wizard|Swordmage. You'd lose the capstone of 18-20 crit range, but you can take the sorcerer implement mastery feat instead to get 19-20 crit range. This might be worth it if you wanted to open up a more viable paragon path and be able to use Aegis of Assault for even more teleportation goodness. Are you using rogue for anything else besides daggermaster?
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4 years ago ::
Apr 21, 2009 - 10:24AM
#23
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2009
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I wonder if instead of using a Wizard|Rogue this build might be better through Wizard|Swordmage. You'd lose the capstone of 18-20 crit range, but you can take the sorcerer implement mastery feat instead to get 19-20 crit range. This might be worth it if you wanted to open up a more viable paragon path and be able to use Aegis of Assault for even more teleportation goodness. Are you using rogue for anything else besides daggermaster?
A couple feats require rogue, such as roundabout charge. That might not necessarily invalidate your point though.
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4 years ago ::
Apr 21, 2009 - 10:40AM
#24
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I haven't looked at the hybrid rules, but generally understand them, if this character were to MC rogue couldn't it gain feats and PPs from that MC? And instead use Swordmage as the other half of the Hybrid?
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4 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2009 - 12:14AM
#25
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How viable is this character at intervals before 30? Does he put out DPR that is comparative to other DPR builds like stormwarden? Can we see some of that pre-30 data? Or are you waiting til you see PHB2 classes in Hybrid form to complete the build?
Bumping for a hopeful response.
Also: Could you post the stats?
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4 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2009 - 1:19AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2007
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I wonder if instead of using a Wizard|Rogue this build might be better through Wizard|Swordmage. You'd lose the capstone of 18-20 crit range, but you can take the sorcerer implement mastery feat instead to get 19-20 crit range. This might be worth it if you wanted to open up a more viable paragon path and be able to use Aegis of Assault for even more teleportation goodness. Are you using rogue for anything else besides daggermaster?
I also use it for roundabout charge and fey gambit, which is essential if i want to charge the same enemy all the time / have the +3 to hit from CA. But, if you don't take daggermaster and start off wizard|swordmage, you have the great swordburst and better power selection, could take MC bard with the Multiclass Mastery feat in epic for fighter/rogue. During paragon, MC fighter for feycharge. If your DM allows free actions after a charge, it would be even better during paragon levels, allowing the 3 attack routine before epic levels. Or even a 4 attack routine, if you count the aegis attack...
I haven't looked at the hybrid rules, but generally understand them, if this character were to MC rogue couldn't it gain feats and PPs from that MC? And instead use Swordmage as the other half of the Hybrid?
Not without loosing daggermaster: Assuming you have a swordmaster|wizard MC rogue, you take daggermaster. Now, you cannot retrain rogue to bard for multiclass mastery, since retraining is only allowed if the feat is not required for other feats, paragon paths etc. So you wouldn't get fey charge, with is kinda the point of the whole build... 
About your question about every level, i currently don't have enough free time to make a full 1-30 progression, so i can only give you the answer i gave to the first poster -> here. I added the stat progression to the main post.
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4 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2009 - 6:53AM
#27
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I also use it for roundabout charge and fey gambit, which is essential if i want to charge the same enemy all the time / have the +3 to hit from CA. But, if you don't take daggermaster and start off wizard|swordmage, you have the great swordburst and better power selection, could take MC bard with the Multiclass Mastery feat in epic for fighter/rogue. During paragon, MC fighter for feycharge. If your DM allows free actions after a charge, it would be even better during paragon levels, allowing the 3 attack routine before epic levels. Or even a 4 attack routine, if you count the aegis attack...
Any chance you could work up a rough version of this option? To maximize a build for Paragon levels?
It's very cool
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4 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2009 - 6:57AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2007
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Any chance you could work up a rough version of this option? To maximize a build for Paragon levels?
It's very cool
I'll create a sketch in a minute, will flesh it out more after work... :D
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4 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2009 - 7:23AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2007
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Ok, here it is. The above build, but optimized for damage. The defenses are suffering a bit, but i think 47/40/45/39 is still ok. Nice things(tm): better damage : 306 DPR (4 attacks per round, all day) 402 DPR (5 attacks per round, two encounters per day) the chance to miss the charge attack is 1:400 (roll 1 twice on d20), i.e. very rare each hit adds +1 to hit and +3 to damage for the next hit (stacking, until end of next turn) sage of ages gets a even more reliable (99.2%), and 3 or 4 effects get more likely (91% for 3, 65.7% for 4) Arcane Feycharger, 4 attacks, 2/day 5 attacks per round
Show
Outline for a 4 attack per round feycharger, work in progress...
4 attacks per round:
1 standard -> charge
1 free -> Eldarin Swordmage Advance
1 minor -> Wizards Fury
1 interrupt -> Aegis / White Lotus Riposte (if enemy attacks you, free attack. If he attacks others, free attack
5 attacks per round:
2/day: Quicksilver Stance/Quicksilver blade
move(minor) -> quicksilver attack
So assuming 4 encounters per day, we have two encounters with 4 attacks, and two encounters with 5 attacks per round
to hit:
Magic Missle
to hit attack 1: +40 vs Ref 42, roll twice, take better 0.0025 miss 0.19 crit 0.8075 hit
to hit other attacks: +40* vs Ref 42, 0.85 hit 0.1 crit
*: actually, its +39.9975, since the first attack won't hit in some cases (on average, one attack in 400 will miss) - but after the first round of combat, this chance is even smaller (by a lot, we need only one hit to get the +1 bonus...), and our actual to hit will be above the reflex defense...
Hit: 8(int)+6(item)+6(enh)+6(dual implement)+6(subtle)+1(twf)+5(academy master) = 4d4+38 (50)
crit: 7d8+2d6 + 54 (97)
two hit: 8(int)+6(item)+6(enh)+6(dual implement)+6(subtle)+5(academy master) = 4d4+37 (49)
two crit: 7d8+2d6 + 53 (96)
damage attack 1: 0.8075*(50)+0.19*(97) = 58.805
two 1: 0.19*0.85*(49)+0 .19*0.1*(96) = 9.7375
total attack 1 = 68.5425
damage attack 2 to 5: 0.85*(50)+0.1*(97) = 52.2
two2 to 5: 0.1*0.85*(49)+0.1 *0.1*(96) = 5.125
total attack 2 to 4 = 57.325
total DPR 4 attacks: 240.52 +66 echoes of thunder -> 306 DPR (up to 7 encounters/day)
total DPR 5 attacks: 292.29 + 105 echoes of thunder -> 402 DPR (2 encounters/day)
additional damage echoes of thunder
after first hit: 0.9975 * 3 + 0.19*0.95*3= 3.534
following: (rowchance)*0.95 * 3 + 0.1*0.95*3
after second 0.9975*0.95 * 3 + 0.9975*0.1*0.95*3 = 3.127 (0.9476=
after third 0.9476*0.95*3 + 0.9476*0.1*0.95*3 = 2.97 (0.9)
after forth 0.9*0.95*3 + 0.9*0.1*0.95*3 = 2.82 (0.855) -> + 12.451
after fifth 0.855*0.95*4 + 0.855*0.1*0.95*4 = 2.68 -> + 15.131
so on average, +3 per attack
4 attacks, after round 1
1: 12
2: 15
3: 18
4: 21
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+66
5 attacks, after round 1
1: 15
2: 18
3: 21
4: 24
5: 27
-----
105
Build
Race: Eldarin
Class: Wizard|Swordmage
Multi: Bard, Fighter, Rogue
PP: Academy Master
Epic: Sage of Ages
Stats: (bumps)
Str: 14->16->21 (5)
Con: 14->16->17 (1)
Dex: 14->16
Int: 18-> 26 (6)
Wis: 8->10
Cha: 11->13
HP: 173 ; Bloodied: 86 ; Surges: 9 (43)
AC/Fort/Ref/Will: 47/40/45/39
Initiative: +24; Speed: 8 (land) 8 (fly)
Feats:
Arcane Admixture (magic missile, thunder), Dual Implement Spellcaster, Echoes of Thunder, Reapers Touch, Unstoppable Charge, Roundabout Charge, Fey Charge, Fey Gambit, Eladrin Swordmage Advance, Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Opening, Implement Expertise (staff), Bard MC, Multiclass Mastery (rogue, fighter), White Lotus Riposte, White Lotus Master Riposte, Fighter Daily (Quicksilver Stance), Wizard Implement Expertise
Powers:
at-will: Magic Missile, Swordburst
encounter: Learned Boost(PP), 3 open
daily: Wizards Fury (D2, minor action magic missile 1/round), Masters Surge(PP), Quicksilver Blade, Quicksilver Stance(Fighter)
utility: Arcane Insight (Enc2, reroll arcana check), Trick of Knowledge (enc26, from ED), Refined Recall(PP), 4 open
Gear:
hand1: Staff of Missile Mastery+6
hand2: Subtle dagger+6
armor: battle harness leather+6
neck: cloak of displacement+6
hands: gauntlets of destruction
head: iron of spite
arms: flame bracers
feet: airstriders
belt: ?
ring1: shadow band
ring2: war ring
misc: salves of power
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4 years ago ::
Apr 22, 2009 - 9:18AM
#30
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could take MC bard with the Multiclass Mastery feat in epic for fighter/rogue.
Ah there is the problem that I wasn't getting. Multiclass Mastery is an Epic Feat. 
About the expanded build: I saw that post about effectiveness at earlier levels, but was hoping for more details through stats, etc. But I understand if your time is constrained. Very fun build... I want.. :P
Also: Those defense numbers look far more appealing on the rogue build. (lost Leather and feywild protection in this build). It also is unable to get fey charge or fey gambit(choose 1) until epic (assuming you take fighter or rogue MC early on and swap out for multiclass mastery)
What kind of DPR would this Swordmage incarnation output? Any guesstimate? It has +1 to hit, 4 attacks instead of 3, and 1 less crit range. Shouldn't be drastically lower. Maybe 200 w/ echoes?
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