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Switch to Forum Live View Speaking with a Thousand Voices: The Vestigelock's Handbook
4 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2009 - 5:55AM #21
ChristopherGroves
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 1,847
And don't forget Storm Pillar doesn't require an attack roll. You've got the INT in any case, but you don't really need much of it.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2009 - 6:39AM #22
MwaO
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 1,343

ChristopherGroves wrote:

And don't forget Storm Pillar doesn't require an attack roll. You've got the INT in any case, but you don't really need much of it.


That's actually a problem - no roll, no curse damage...

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 08, 2009 - 9:40AM #23
ls612
Date Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Posts: 162

Vestige of Ulgar (AP)

Attack: A low damage burst that creates a zone that hurts your friends? Um... we can do better.
Pact Boon: Move that hurtful zone! Move it! This is what your friends will be screaming as they burn. The fact that you can't move the zone without activating your pact boon... that's just terrible.
Augment: Fire Damage and the removal of concealment. This is probably the best part of this Vestige. Sadly its not extra fire damage... its just a transformation of your incredibly difficult to resist power into a very easily resisted one. *sigh* Oh Ulgar.


I disagree with your rating on the Vestige of Ugar. The Initial Damage might be weak, but it creates a hurtful zone. You say that you will hurt your allies too much, but you can choose where you place the zone and your allies can be tactically intelligent. When your Pact Boon triggers, you can intelligently move the zone to burn as many enemies as possible. The augment is rather weak, but is good against those lurkers that want to stay in the shadows.
Overall, I think this power deserves a Blue rating.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 13, 2009 - 1:16AM #24
solkanar72
Date Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 58
I have to agree on the low rating of this power.
The damage is not good enough and the fact that it can only move as a pact boon (= out of your direct control) does not make it better.
The augment is very situational and imposes a worse damage type.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 13, 2009 - 6:37AM #25
Undrhil
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2007
Posts: 4,262

solkanar72 wrote:

I have to agree on the low rating of this power.
The damage is not good enough and the fact that it can only move as a pact boon (= out of your direct control) does not make it better.
The augment is very situational and imposes a worse damage type.


"out of your direct control"? Since when is killing cursed enemies out of your direct control. Get out there and kill the bad guys. When you kill a cursed enemy, you get your pact boon. Hardly out of your direct control.

Edit: Storm Pillar does allow for the user to roll damage (1d6 + INT modifier, if I remember right) so you would still get to apply curse damage, wouldn't you? Or do you have to attack the target before you can get that extra damage?

As to the multiclass options, if you can qualify for Bard, I would recommend Bardic Ritualist over Bardic Dilettante, especially if you think you will want to be casting rituals. Bardic Ritualist gives you the Bardic Training class feature, which lets you take two free 1st level rituals, one of which requires the 'bard' prerequisite and that one can be cast once per day with no component cost.

I wish Learned Spellcaster gave you the Wizard's ritual gaining class feature, but they rolled that into the Spellbook feature, so you won't be getting that so easily. And, I'm hoping Arcane Power 2 lets you get the Artificer's ritual class feature: getting the magic item rituals for free and being able to use disenchant magic item without component costs is a good thing.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 13, 2009 - 8:57AM #26
solkanar72
Date Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 58
What I mean is that you cannot move it when you want to. You have to wait until your pact boon triggers. I'm completely with you on killing the bad guys, but If an ally is immobilised or slowed or stunned or otherwise trapped inside my zone, I want to move my zone ASAP or dismiss it. I can't do either with this power.

And alas, you have to hit with a power to trigger your curse damage.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 13, 2009 - 9:30PM #27
Soyim
Date Joined: Aug 21, 2007
Posts: 253
Just moved from one point in the country to another- but i will continue to update this guide. Expect to see Tactics and Paragon Powers tomorrow.

As for a few other things...

a) I moved Half Elf up a step to blue, although i personally feel that its a Race that you need to take extremely specific stats and powers for it to do so- namely you need to grab Artificer at-wills and push your Charisma to a 15 to make it at all worth while. Storm Pillar, as has been pointed out, is an acceptable control option- but when you compare the standard action you took to cast it to the power of any other races Encounter Power- i ask you to evaluate if that was a good move.

b) Ugar is not a blue power, it is not a black power. It is a power that does low damage on an AOE, harms your friends, and gives an unstable buff to an excellent spell. It doesn't move unless you kill something, its easy to get away from, and its control is situational. All these things are the very definition of a Purple or Red power. Feel free to take it and love it, thats one of the best things about DND, you are free to make your own choices.

c) God Fragment- i understand people may question me on this one, but let me explain my experiences with it. I am currently playing a Revenant Vestige Warlock- the necrotic damage works with many of my other abilities and while its damage is potentially low- i have also rolled titanically huge numbers on the d12's, combined with the multiple d6's of curse to do a fantastic amount of pain to a target. Necrotic Resistance does exist, but if you aren't fighting undead regularly you'd be surprised how little it comes up.

The aura is short range- fortunately as a Constitution based character it is not lethal for you to get that close- especially when chasing +3 Point Blank Shots (Thanks Zutwa!) also it only takes a little planning to charge in after activating the aura and other control powers to lock down the accuracy of an enemy to -6 (if you have Psychic Lock and Illmeth going) + another -2 if someone else marked them- and keeping their saves low. Especially if you consider that you can swap places to get into/out of range of using the aura on enemies (once again assuming you have Illmeth going). Later on you can consider the power an extra +2 AC against melee attacks- which is a power i would gladly take.

As a Revenant who has also taken some of the other "Die Hard" Feats- the +3 bonus to death saves is amazing. The healing when spending an action point is part of my "I don't go down" trick- since you aren't unconscious you can spend the action point- heal and then take two standards when enemies expected you to be lying face down. As for opening the fight with an action point- that is a play style that i dont follow (mostly because my GM is tricky and rarely gives us a straightforward "What you see is what your fighting" kind of encounter) but if you have the opportunity to do so i can see why you might see the feature as less useful.

Also Dormant Power continues to grow on me - extra damage is never a bad thing - as my Fighter friend noted to me recently "Huh, you basically have a Vicious Weapon built into that rod." which is pretty solid considering that the main complaint about Warlocks has always been the low base damage.

As always i welcome criticism and discussion and if i agree with you will gladly change parts of the guide- thanks for reading.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 14, 2009 - 5:25AM #28
MwaO
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 1,343

Soyim wrote:

b) Ugar is not a blue power, it is not a black power. It is a power that does low damage on an AOE, harms your friends, and gives an unstable buff to an excellent spell. It doesn't move unless you kill something, its easy to get away from, and its control is situational. All these things are the very definition of a Purple or Red power. Feel free to take it and love it, thats one of the best things about DND, you are free to make your own choices.


I think that's being extremely harsh to it. It is a burst 2 zone that if your target doesn't have fire resistance essentially does 2d10+Con, 1d10 damage of which is automatic. That's reasonably decent damage.

And if your party knows how to work with a zone, it certainly helps out. I'd call it Black. Blue is if its augment wasn't so situational.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 14, 2009 - 6:10AM #29
solkanar72
Date Joined: Nov 29, 2008
Posts: 58
I'm with Soyim on Ugar. An enemy controller can too easily use the zone against the party. And the augment is too situational.

I see your point about the God Fragment. Great synergy with revenant. I give you that!

For what it's worth, I never use an action point before I'm sure there are no surprises and other stuff in the encounter.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 14, 2009 - 9:01AM #30
Richmud
  • Stampeding Hybrid
Date Joined: Feb 5, 2004
Posts: 363
Looks like a good guide so far. Minor note on Leraje that might or might not effect your opinion. Shadow walk provides concealment not cover and cover and concealment stack so the boon isn't useless
I haven't lost my mind I've simply misplaced it
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