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SadisticFishing wrote:

Urm, I'd rather a free crit than a standard action relatively okay attack. You're not looking at opportunity cost, at all.

Autocrits are overpowered. Note that a high level autocrit often gives you 1-3 free attacks, as well s 6dX crit dice, and et cetera.

What standard action relatively okay attack? Turn Undead is a standard action excellent attack which has the capability of obliterating a swarm of undead. Even at high levels, a minion has 1 hitpoint, so against a horde you really only need to hit, and plus it scatters them. So anything that it hits will shamble away, and it's hard to discount the bucket of dice you'll be throwing when you get a chance to hit more than one thing with it.

What about Divine Mettle? Force a Save + Charisma, your main att, as a minor action? There's plenty of times where a save is handy, especially as I believe this would also apply to a Save versus Death, at +Charisma bonus, so there's nearly no chance you can flub that. That's a +4 that scales to a +8, you'd need to roll less than a 3 to fail that save.

How about the Invoker? His CD's are both very useful. Someone hits you, they take some damage and get shoved away--useful as an instant interrupt. And same as when someone dinks your ally, you gain a "Dear God" bonus to-hit on your next attack, basically making it for-sure that you'll be be able to drop an AoE nuke or a single-target dazzer on him. Free hits are pretty handy too, especially at no feat cost and no additional power required.

The opportunity cost is, indeed, a minor action. But it is still a minor action, not a free, and it requires you to burn another attack. If you want your RRoT to actually mean something, it's probably not going to be an At-Will. At the highest levels RRoT starts to have more sinister implications because of all the things that trigger on a crit, but that's hardly a good excuse. Stacking a bunch of effects together always creates crazy outcomes. That requires a deliberate build towards specific situations and weapons. How many clerics or paladins are going to be using a greataxe? It will probably, rightly, be erratad to "does maximum damage, as per a crit, but does not not count as a critical hit for the purposes of magical effects," which is how I read it at the moment and how I play with it.

So I'm still calling ******** on this. Dumping feats into an encounter power that must be used on the tail of something else, and only begins to show what it's really capable of later on with dubious weapon combinations, a permissive DM, and the kind of powers that make it worth using on? Seems like an expensive way to get lucky once a battle. You're still only denting the target. Even if you're level 30 and hitting a target nearly 10 levels lower than you, it would be remarkable if you actually killed it in a single hit with your biggest Daily attack as the Divine Striker. The power is dramatic, but outside of player versus player Arena matches, it's not going to turn the tide of war. If you're saving RRoT to drop on the Big Bad once all the rest are dead, the Sorcs and Rangers are still going to do more than you. And if these had been undead, you'd have been better off using one of your other powers.

SadisticFishing wrote:

Urm, I'd rather a free crit than a standard action relatively okay attack. You're not looking at opportunity cost, at all.

Autocrits are overpowered. Note that a high level autocrit often gives you 1-3 free attacks, as well s 6dX crit dice, and et cetera.

Now it sounds like you are DEFENDING the CD feat you supposedly hate so much.

Make up your mind, maybe?

Awesome. Avenger with RRoT for me, then. Thanks for the unanimous advice everybody!

As the poster above me on the other page said, considering who this is a bonus for, it's not dangerous. An Avenger with Righteous Rage is the build that gets the most for it, and they're hardly damage machines anyway, especially compared to rangers or rogues or anyone else. You can't balance a power unless you look at what the competition is. All in all, Armor Specialization is probably more damaging overall to the health of a campaign than one small pile of damage extra per encounter. Forcing the DM to upgrade the critters just to hit the PC's is a more damaging feat than this, especially at levels 1-3.

Choosing when to crit is only stupid if you think you're getting much from it. The only class that even gets any significant advantage from using it is the Avenger, and they don't have a battery of high [w] abilities to expend it on. Deep into the Avenger's progression their powers are 1-2[w] damage, with dailies being 2-3[w] until way up until level 19 Dailies hit, where one of the options is a 5[w] daily. Your first 4[w] encounter power is at 23. Barbarians get 4[w] encounter powers as early as level 17, and this isn't even counting the damage bonus from rage. Rage bonus and +8 damage if an opponent moves away from me are not equal.

So in terms of raw damage output, the RRoT is only finding a cozy home in the arms of one or two dailies until nearly into Epic. Until then the highest you're able to give it to, as an Avenger, is a Executioner's Axe powering Aspect of Might or similar. All told you'd get 36+wis+2d[12] and whatever magical hoodoo your DM has allowed you to pull off. At that point in the game you're fighting things where the even the light controllers have 150+ hitpoints, and you're whining about this massively overpowering feat that lets you bring it down to bloodied at at best? You wouldn't even be able to drop an Ogre Skirmisher, a level 8, with your level 18 RRoT and maximum power daily.

Sure, you've done quite a bit of damage, but if you as a DM cannot handle the fact that something got critted, then there's an issue. And the issue is, while RRoT gives you a 50% chance of one crit per battle, there's always a chance with 5 players that someone will crit once, or each person will crit once, or maybe get lucky and get multiple crits. The game cannot and should not hinge on luck, even mathmatically calculated luck, and RRoT doesn't provide enough power to kill even a weak enemy. Throw one extra half-level mook into the battle and you've already overcompensated.