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Switch to Forum Live View Darth Maul- The Non-Dagger Brutal Rogue
5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 1:42PM #1
Xantos000
Date Joined: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 448
Ok, here is (what I hope) the definitive, non Dagger, Brutal Rogue Build. It utilizes either the Drow or Bugbear (personal Choice, I'm choosing Drow simply because of the ease of getting CA and also the fact that it is more suppported than bugbear), and the Double Sword (preferably a reckless one). His PP is Kensai and his epic is Demigod.

*Note about race* As Tal'eth pointed out to me, Genasi also make a good race. While they lack the +2 to dex, they have a +2 to strength, and there is a Paragon Level feat called Shocking Flame that can add as much as +8 damage per hit at epic.

This build utilizes the PHB, FRPG, and AV (The Dragon "Children of Drow" article is good, but optional).

Level One Show

Darth Maul: Level 1 Drow Brutal Scoundrel
Stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 18 (16+2)
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 10 (8+2)

Feat: Weapon Prof(Double Sword)

At Wills: Piercing Strike
Riposte Strike

Encounter: Torturous Strike

Daily: Blinding Barrage

At Level 1, Darth Maul plays much like any other rogue, using piercing strike mostly, hitting at +9 with CA vs Reflex, dealing 1d8+7+2d6 Damage, dealing average 18.5 dmg.

Levelling to 10 Show

Level 2:
Feat: Student of the Sword
Level 2 Util: Whatever you really want, I'm going with Great Leap due to the fact that jumping over people at later levels is a great way of not provoking OAs. Nifty trick for Level 2 is to use the +1 to hit/mark on a riposte strike. If you hit, he either attacks you and provokes a Riposte Strike, or doesn't and provokes an OA.

Level 3:
Encounter: Topple Over (An almost auto hit attack that knocks a target prone? Yes please.

Level 4 (Big Level):
+1 to Str, +1 to Dex
Feat: Novice Power
Switch out Topple Over to Rain of Blows. (You now will have the highest damaging attack for all of heroic tier. This ability is one of the best in the game: you WILL keep it to 30. Properly buffed, these 4 attacks will be SCARY. AND AN ENCOUNTER? Teh sex.)

Level 5:
Daily: Clever Riposte

Level 6:
Feat: Nimble Blade
Util: Chameleon

Level 7:
Imperiling Strike (Cloud of Steel is also an excellent ability, but IS allows you to setup those big bad dailies, and after level 11, drawing a dagger interrupts your +1/+4 bonuses at level 16)

Level 8:
+1 to Strength, +1 to Dex
Feat: Weapon Focus (Double Sword)

Level 9:
Daily: Knockout (Best Choice at this level: Crimson Edge is decent, but knocking someone unconcious is tons better than ongoing damage.)

Level 10:
Util: Close Quarters or Shadow Stride. Both are great.
Feat: Backstabber


Level 11 Show

Ahh.... Level 11. Time for some Kensei fun.
Darth Maul: Level 11 Drow Brutal Scoundrel/Kensei
Stats:
Str: 19
Dex: 21
Con: 13
Int: 11
Wis: 13
Cha: 11

Feats: Weapon Prof(Double Sword), Student of the Sword, Novice Power, Nimble Blade, Weapon Focus (Double Sword) Backstabber, Merciless Killer

At Wills: Piercing Strike
Riposte Strike

Encounter: Torturous Strike, Rain of Blows, Imperiling Strike, Masterstroke
Util: Great Leap, Chameleon, Close Quarters
Daily: Blinding Barrage, Clever Riposte, Knockout

Without magic weapons, Piercing strike is made at +14 (+17 with CA) vs. REF and deals 1d8+5+2(+3d8+4 with CA).
Rain of Blows is at 4 attacks +16 with CA, dealing 1d8+4+2 (+3d8+4 with CA one Attack)

Levelling to 20 Show

Level 12:
Util: Ultimate Parry
Feat: Fleet Footed (Wintertouched if you plan on taking the Frost weapon combo)

Level 13:
Replace Torturous Strike with Unbalancing Strike

Level 14:
+1 to Str/Dex
Feat: Blood Thirst (or Lloth's meat, take which one you want)/Lasting Frost

Level 15:
Replace Blinding Barrage with Slaying Strike

Level 16: Sweet, +4 damage to all attacks with my double sword
Another very close level, but I'm choosing Hide in Plain Sight over Leaping Dodge because it is so useful. Take either, but I think HiPS has the edge.
Util Power: Hide in Plain Sight
Feat: Heavy Blade Oppurtunity

Level 17:
Replace: Unbalancing Strike with Dragon Tail Strike

Level 18:
+1 Dex/Str
Feat: Danger Sense (or Fleet Footed if you decide to go Lasting Frost/Wintertouched)

Level 19:
Replace Clever Riposte with Snake's Retreat

Level 20:
Daily: Weaponsoul Dance
Feat: Agile Athlete (or Danger Sense if you go Frost Route)


Level 21 Show

Demigod is here.

Darth Maul: Level 21 Drow Brutal Scoundrel/Kensei/Demigod
Stats:
Str: 24 (with Demigod Boost)
Dex: 26 (with Demigod Boost)
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Feats: Weapon Prof(Double Sword), Student of the Sword, Novice Power, Nimble Blade, Weapon Focus (Double Sword), Backstabber, Blood Thirst(or Lloth's meat), Fleet Footed, Merciless Killer, Heavy Blade Oppurtunity, Danger Sense, Agile Athlete, Light Blade Mastery

At Wills: Piercing Strike
Riposte Strike

Encounter: Rain of Blows, Imperiling Strike, Masterstroke, Dragon Tail Strike
Util: Great Leap, Chameleon, Close Quarters, Ultimate Parry, Hide in Plain Sight
Daily: Knockout, Slaying Strike, Snake's Retreat, Weaponsoul Dance

Without magic weapons, Piercing strike is made at +22 (+25 with CA) vs. REF and deals 2d8+7+3+4(+5d8+6 with CA)(+7 when the target is bloodied).
Without Magic, Rain of Blows is at 4 attacks +24 with CA, dealing 1d8+7+3+4 (+7 when bloodied with CA)(+5d8+6 with CA one Attack).
Imperiling strike is imposing a -6 AC when it hits.

Levelling to 29 Show

Level 22:
Util: Cloud Jump (This power allows you to get virtually anywhere on the battlefield once per encounter. Bounds and Leaps above any other rogue util at level 22)
Feat: Epic Resurgence

level 23:
Replace Dragon Tail Strike with Knaves Gambit

Level 24:
Feat: Adept Power
gain Divine Recovery
+1 to str/dex

Level 25:
Replace Slaying Strike with Reapers Stance

Level 26:
Util: Divine Regeneration
Feat: Unfettered Stride

Level 27:
Replace Knave's Gambit with Hurricane of Blood (A ridiculous power: an near-auto 5[w] hit? yes please)

Level 28:
+1 to Str/Dex
Feat: Blind Fight

Level 29:
Ahh, you've reached it: Assassin's Point, the highest damaging ability you get. It's bassically a 17d8 power for you. Ouch.
Replace Snakes Retreat with Assassin's Point

Final Stats Show

The epitome of your career. Now you get Divine Miracle (and so you will replace Epic Resurgence).
Darth Maul: Level 21 Drow Brutal Scoundrel/Kensei/Demigod
Stats:
Str: 26 (with Demigod Boost)
Dex: 28 (with Demigod Boost)
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 14
Cha: 12

Feats: Weapon Prof(Double Sword), Student of the Sword, Novice Power, Nimble Blade, Weapon Focus (Double Sword), Backstabber, Blood Thirst(or Lloth's Meat), Fleet Footed, Merciless Killer, Heavvy Blade Oppurtunity, Danger Sense, Agile Athlete, Light Blade Mastery, Adept Power, Unfettered Stride, Blind Fight, Silent Stride

At Wills: Piercing Strike
Riposte Strike

Encounter: Rain of Blows, Imperiling Strike, Masterstroke, Hurricane of Blood
Util: Great Leap, Chameleon, Close Quarters, Ultimate Parry, Hide in Plain Sight, Cloud Jump, Divine Regeneration
Daily: Knockout, Reaper's Stance, Weaponsoul Dance, Assassin's Point

Without magic weapons, Piercing strike is made at +28 (+31 with CA) vs. REF and deals 2d8+9+3+4(+5d8+8 with CA)(+7 with CA when enemy is bloodied).
Without Magic, Rain of Blows is at 4 attacks +30 with CA, dealing 1d8+8+3+4 (+7 with CA and enemy is Bloodied)(+8 once per attack per day from reaper's stance)(+5d8+8 with CA one Attack).
Imperiling strike is imposing a -8 AC when it hits.
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 1:43PM #2
Xantos000
Date Joined: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 448
BAMF! J'ai fini with the build.

Equipment Show

Armor: Skybound Armor is pretty good. Displacer armor is also pretty good. I normally pick up Sylvan armor, just because I don't have many skill bonuses picked up in this build.

Weapon: +6 Reckless Doublesword (pick up a reckless sword as SOON as possible,unless you're a frost weapon user, in which case, get a +6 frost Doublesword, but I think a total of +18 damage per hit for only -2AC per hit is much better)

Arms Slot: Couters of Second Chances (All are nice for the level, especially considering you have no rerolls)

Boots: Boots of teleportation are nice, if expensive. Zephyr Boots are also good, as are Airstriders. Lower level, Boots of Eagerness are pretty ridiculous. 4200gp for an extra move action per encounter? Mmmmhhmmm.

Helm: Dread Helm is godly for its price, although Trickster's Mask is decent as well for skill challenges.

Neck: So many good ones, but Amulet of Attentuation is good, as is Flamewrath Cloak. Scarab of Invulnerability is pricey, but exactly what you need when you have a -8 to AC vs. Orcus and he's lining up his one shot power.

Finger: Shadow Band, Shadow Band, or Shadow Band. Your pick. Concealment means you can always hide which means you can always get CA. Seriously, get this ring.

Waist: Until later levels, the Baldric of Tactical Positioning is great for getting CA. Cincture of Dragon Spirit is another good, low level item that will make your intimidate checks all that much better. Later on, get Belt of Titan Strength.

Wonderous Items: Diamond Scabbard is decent (+5 damage on the first damaging attack of every encounter and quick draw. Pretty nice... if you're lower level, Ruby Scabbard is ok). Foe Stone is good for planning your attacks. GET SOLITAIRE (VIOLET) as soon as you can. It's that good. Solitaire Aquamarine is also pretty good.



Some Number Crunching with Equip Show

At Level 30: *Note this does not include crits*

Melee Basic Attack is at +33 (+36 with CA). It deals 2d8+8+3+4+18+(5d8+8 with CA)(+7 when enemy is Bloodied). Assuming we have CA, the average damage per hit is 75.5.

Piercing Strike is at +34/+37 vs. Ref and deals 2d8+9+3+4+18+(5d8+8 with CA)(+7 when enemy is bloodied). Assuming CA, average damage per hit 76.5

Rain of Blows is 4 attacks at +33 (+36 with CA). It deals d8+8+3+4+18+(5d8+8 with CA on one)(+7 when enemy is bloodied). The first hit deals on average, 71 damage. The following blows average is 41 damage. Average damage when all 4 hit is 194 damage. Once per day, we can activate reapers stance, which adds an additional 36 damage to every Rain of Blows if everything hits. This gives us an average of 230 damage.

Hurricane of Blood is at +42/+45 vs. AC and deals 5d8+9+3+4+18+(5d8+8 with CA)(+7 when enemy is bloodied). Average damage is 90.5 damage.

Assassin's Point is at +34/+37 and deals 7d8+9+3+4+18+(10d8+16 with CA)(+7 when enemy is bloodied). Average damage is 126.5 However, Assassin's point works best if you get an auto crit. With an auto crit, Assassin's point deals 2(6d8+56+9+3+4+18+80+16(+7 if enemy is bloodied)). Average damage is 433 damage. Ouch.

Think of this combo. Belt of Titan's Strength Daily, Knockout, Action point, Assassin's point, Action point (from the violet solitaire), Rain of Blows. Wow, you just took Orcus down to nearly half health WITHOUT resorting to cheap 1 shot tricks.

Or this combo you can use every encounter: Imperiling Strike, Action Point, Rain of Blows, (if solitaire procs) action point, Rain of Blows.


Questions? Comments? Suggestions?
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 1:49PM #3
Garry2rs
Date Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Posts: 191
At L11 with combat advantage it's 3d8+4, not 2d8+4.
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 2:03PM #4
Armisael
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2007
Posts: 11,299
For an items section, this rogue wants to be wielding a Reckless weapon from level 1 to 30. It adds a lot to your damage output (especially when combined with Rain of Blows, yummy), and doesn't cost you much.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 3:09PM #5
Xantos000
Date Joined: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 448
Thanks Garry! I fixed it.
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 3:15PM #6
sunsetpsychosis
Date Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 141
All in all it seems a pretty solid build, but where are you getting 4 attacks out of Rain of Blows? It says Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks. Double weapons don't give you extra attacks, its just like wielding two weapons, with the added benefit of the defensive property. Read the double weapons box in AV
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 3:20PM #7
Xantos000
Date Joined: Feb 8, 2007
Posts: 448

sunsetpsychosis wrote:

All in all it seems a pretty solid build, but where are you getting 4 attacks out of Rain of Blows? It says Attack: Strength vs. AC, two attacks. Double weapons don't give you extra attacks, its just like wielding two weapons, with the added benefit of the defensive property. Read the double weapons box in AV


Look at the secondary effect. If you're wielding a lightblade, spear, or flail, you make an additional attack for each one. 2x2=4.

The reason I'm using a double sword is the fact that it is d8 and defensive.

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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 4:01PM #8
sunsetpsychosis
Date Joined: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 141
Hmm, I don't know. I can see your interpretation, but one thing that throws me off is in the hit section. It lists 1[W]+strength modifier. All of the ranger multiple hit attacks say 1[W]+Strength modifier per attack. And even if its intended to be base two hits, the secondary attack section says nothing about two more attacks, so I would figure 3 attacks max. Anyone else care to help interpret this?
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 4:08PM #9
Armisael
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2007
Posts: 11,299
The extra attacks key off of hitting, thus, they activate each time you hit. Because of that, there's a max of four attacks.
Mountain Cleave Rule: You can have any sort of fun, including broken, silly fun, so long as I get to have that fun too (e. g., if you can warp reality with your spells, I can cleave mountains with my blade).
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5 years ago  ::  Sep 29, 2008 - 4:08PM #10
Tal-eth
Date Joined: Jul 23, 2003
Posts: 820
If you are in a group that works with you and can help you gain consistent CA, I think Genasi is a better choice for race. The Shocking Flame feat is very nice, granting +2 damage to melee attacks at paragon and +4 at epic. Some are of the opinion that a double manifested genasi would enjoy +8 damage at epic.

Drow are very nice though. It's nice not to have to rely on others for CA. However, with this build it might be tough to land Darkfire due to low Int, Wis, and Cha.
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord"  Romans 6:23
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