Community

nittanytbone wrote:

Battle clerics have, at most, even with multiclassing, a handful of powers that go against WILL. If you're picking up WIS based powers so that you can make good use of Terrifying Insight, then you'd probably be better off with a Balanced Cleric or Devoted Cleric, both of which are discussed by other handbooks.

I agree that its very useful to have a Divine Oracle around for the immunity to surprise and other such bennies, but if you're a devoted battle cleric whose WIS lags behind your STR, its probably better to let the wizard pick up the Divine Oracle PP.

Still, Divine Oracle runs circles around Warpriest for Battle Clerics. Warpriests are entirely Will based in their powers. Divine Oracle only has one use for Wisdom, and you can dump Wis and still use it effectively.

Two notes here:

Warpriest's abilities are still pretty strong and bring a few things to the table that Divine Oracle does not. Warpriest turns a battle cleric into a defender. Divine Oracle doesn't help you fill that role. Warpriest also gives the battle cleric some really nice burst damage ability with extra damage action. Divine Oracle does not do that either.

Secondly, dumping I don't believe that "you can dump wisdom" is actually a selling point for a p-path. As a battle cleric, wisdom is still very useful as a kicker on your healing and other powers. It can be freeing not to need a strong wisdom, but even clerics who are headed down the Kensai or Knight Commander paths may well look at wisdom and wonder if they can justify putting more points there.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Still, Divine Oracle runs circles around Warpriest for Battle Clerics. Warpriests are entirely Will based in their powers. Divine Oracle only has one use for Wisdom, and you can dump Wis and still use it effectively.

A bump and a few more item notes from Adventurer's Vault:

Weapons:
Fullblade-an alternative to two handed bastard sword for clerics who don't want to go with axes or hammers. If you weren't going to get a shield, this is your thing.

Double sword-Not a bad deal actually. You basically get a combo light shield and longsword for one feat. If you are choosing a cleric paragon path (and thus are not committed to a multiclass feat), it opens up a number of ranger powers to multiclassing and makes the rogue multiclass feat a possibility

Triple headed flail-like a bastard sword but asks for more dex. Pick this only if you like the style. If you like the style, though, it's not much of a drop in pre-epic power.

Greatspear. +3 proficiency with reach and polearm keyword. Still probably not as good as a glaive since you can't use Blade Opportunist with it, but a solid choice.

Urgrosh. It's like a greataxe but you get to combine it with a light shield.

Craghammer/Mordenkrad/waraxe/executioner's axe. If you're a dwarf, these are like a free power upgrade. (Unless you figured that warhammer was good enough and you didn't take dwarven weapon training). If you're not a dwarf, you don't have to feel like you're wasting a feat by taking a military weapon rather than a superior one anymore.

Magic:
Arvandra's Whisper. A combo weapon/holy symbol with a solid daily power. Too bad it only goes on light blades. But you could make it work with a double sword.

Battlemaster's Weapon. Regaining Strengthen the Faithful or a similar mass heal encounter power is better than most item dailies.

Blade of Bahamut: A good weapon/holy symbol with a very nice item daily... if you have charisma. Only works with heavy blades. (Dragonborn battle clerics rejoice).

Communal Weapon: Another way to hand out plusses is never a bad thing.

Crusader's weapon: A solid weapon/holy symbol for hammer and mace wielders (though if you are a battle cleric, you really should spend a feat for a better weapon than a mace). The properties are nice against undead. Too bad the daily is a standard action. Otherwise it might be nice with good channel divinity feats. (As it stands, it's pretty much only worth it if your channel divinity is as good as the Tempus one).

Defensive Weapon: In general, quite weak, but worth considering for a dwarf. Eventually getting +6 to all your defenses when you spend your second wind is actually pretty good.

Dread Weapon: Like a terror weapon, but bigger penalties over a shorter time. Probably better.

Force weapon: Use the solid sound cheese. It's like wintertouched cheese, but defensive.

Healing weapon: It sounds like it's for you, but it's ranged only. Still, the daily may be worth having, so you can put it on a javalin and keep it for the daily.

Holy healer's weapon: Again, it sounds like its for you, but it only works on a mace or staff. So it's not for you.

Inspiring Weapon: Not a terrible daily and, in the right party, you could take advantage by combining this with Righteous Brand to boost a flail-wielder's Rain of Blows/action point/something else/commander's strike (from the warlord) or a twf ranger's twin strike/action point/something else.

Luckblade: Solid daily power and slightly improved crits.

Mace of Healing: would be good if it weren't a mace. Note that this adds to all healing powers though, so if, for some reason you are using a mace, this is better than the holy healer's weapon (it adds to all your healing powers, not just healing words) except that it lacks a daily.

Medic's Weapon: Not bad for pretty clerics. The daily has the same problem as the Crusader's weapon though. The people who really want this are Charisma paladins of Tempus.

Moradin's weapon: If you follow moradin and use a hammer, this is the weapon/holy symbol for you. Excellent critical damage and a good daily power.

Oathblade: the lack of properties makes this a bit of a loser, but the daily has potential if your multiclass or paragon path gives you powers that mark. +6d6 damage at epic levels isn't a terrible daily. It's not a great one though either. At +3 levels over basic magic, it's probably overpriced.

Radiant Weapon: Not as good for you as for a paladin, but the extra damage is nice.

Righteous Weapon: It sounds like it should be for you, but it's +4 cost (vis a vis a magic weapon) is all in the daily which is not +4 impressive.

Sunblade: A pretty decent daily, but nothing to write home about unless you want to do some low level (at high levels, radiant is better) multiclass warlock, disciple of Caiphon, starfire womb cheesing. Heretic.

Thundergod weapon: If you like charging... But Vanguard weapon is strictly better until level 23 and even then, I think I like the Vanguard daily better than the small damage boost from Thundergod.

Vampiric weapon: Healing is only daily or crit. And it makes all your damage necrotic which is a fairly common resist. I'd pass.

Vanguard weapon: At +2, over magic, I like this weapon. Especially for a pretty cleric.

Vengeful Weapon: +4 is a hefty price, but it's an encounter power not a daily.

Withering Weapon: At only +2, it's a steal. Combine with Righteous Brand and your allies may start approaching 3rd edition levels of accuracy.

Holy Symbols:
Black Feather of the Raven Queen. Even if you follow the raven queen, pass on it. You have to drop a foe with an implement power.

Cog of Erathis: You have to hit with an implement attack, but you should be able to give an ally an extra turn through the power. That's a nice power.

Fist of Kord: A pretty nice property for a balanced battle cleric. If like to mix implement and weapon powers, this will give a noticeable damage boost.

Star of Corellon: If swordmage/cleric were a viable build, this would be a good implement. As it is, not so much.

Stone of Arvandra: The daily power is REALLY handy for a battle cleric who probably has weaker attacks with his implement powers than with his weapon.

Symbol of Damnation, Symbol of brilliance and symbol of censure: Nice critical and daily powers, but you're probably better off with a weaker holy symbol and better other items.

Symbol of dire fate: It looks nice, but it's only 1 level below just getting the magic symbol one point up. You don't have that many marking powers.

Symbol of Divinity: Cheap. Potentially great daily power if you have a good channel divinity (cough, Tempus, cough).

Symbol of Good fortune: Cheap. And a potentially useful daily that helps a melee attack hit after you hit with an implement power.

Symbol of Revification: The power looks really nice--but the price is quite high for a secondary attack item.

Symbol of Sacrifice: Excellent property. Usually, you will be using an implement power (sacred flame) because someone needs to get a save. Giving another save (or a save to someone else--since save ends powers are often areas) is easily worth the 4-6 hp.

Still, my analysis is that only the symbol of Divinity and Symbol of Good fortune are competitive with the symbol of Life from the PHB (Adding a bonus to all your healing powers in one round is nice when you could theoretically spam out three of them--(activate symbol (minor), healing word (trade move for a minor), healing strike (standard), beacon of hope or strengthen the faithful, etc (action point)). Other good ones are too expensive for a character whose primary attacks are with a weapon.

That said, in LFR, the found item system seems to reduce the significance of item level. My low characters seem to generally have the choice, not between a +2 weapon and a +1 lightning weapon, or between a +1 flaming weapon and bracers of mighty striking plus a +1 frost weapon, but rather between a +1 flaming weapon and a +1 frost weapon. Either way, they take up the same found item slot.

One thing I feel has been largely neglected in Battle Cleric builds is taking full advantage of the morningstar. Granted, it isn't the best weapon on the market, and feats are far more prevalent now, but it's a d10 weapon that a Cleric doesn't have to spend a feat on, and can take advantage of Hammer Rhythm. I have a build for a morningstar-wielding Battle Cleric that I'm really wanting to play. (lack of commitment from my gaming group prevents me from playing and gets me DMing for them)

Again, there might be something I'm missing, and if there is, I apologise.