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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 2:43PM #1
Favored_Enemy
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 657
UPDATED 08/16/08

NOTICE: The build and description have been adjusted since the errata to Blade Cascade.

DISCLAIMER: This build demands and expects to maintain combat advantage 90% of the time. If that is not likely in your campaign, this build is not for you. In my honest opinion, you will be better off playing a ranger.


ROGUE - OPTIMIZED



This thread shows the full evolution of an optimized rogue. Most threads show a level thirty character and that’s it. I thought it would be helpful to show, step-by-step, what exactly should be chosen at each level. The goal of this character is to best fill the striker role by providing a focused offense. Reading from the Player’s Handbook (p16), “Strikers specialize in dealing high amounts of damage to a single target at a time. They have the most concentrated offense of any character in the game. Strikers rely on superior mobility, trickery, or magic to move around tough foes and single out the enemy they want to attack.” Every choice is made to further that end. This is the model striker.


ELF ROGUE (brutal scoundrel/shadow assassin/deadly trickster)

Illustration: http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j166/ … sassin.jpg

Ability Scores
Starting L1: Str 16; Con 12; Dex 18; Int 08; Wis 14; Cha 10
Ending L30: Str 24; Con 14; Dex 26; Int 10; Wis 16; Cha 12

Feat Progression Show
Feats
L01 Toughness
L02 Backstabber
L04 Nimble Blade
L05 Improved Initiative (retrain toughness)
L06 Elven Precision
L08 Warrior of the Wild
L10 Weapon Focus: light blades
L11 Lasting Frost; Wintertouched (retrain weapon focus)
L12 Weapon Focus: light blades
L14 Danger Sense
L15 Adept Power: blade cascade (retrain danger sense)
L16 Danger Sense
L18 Blood Thirst
L20 Light Blade Precision
L21 Light Blade Mastery; Epic Resurgence (retrain light blade precision)
L22 Light Blade Precision
L24 Unfettered Stride
L26 Blind-Fight
L28 Fleet-Footed
L30 Two-Weapon Fighting; Two-Weapon Flurry (retrain fleet-footed)
Exploit Progression Show
At-Will Attacks
01-30 Deft Strike
01-30 Piercing Strike

Encounter Attacks
01-12 King's Castle
03-16 Bait and Switch
07-30 Imperiling Strike
11-30 Killer’s Eye
13-22 Stunning Strike
17-26 Dragon Tail Strike
23-30 Scorpion Strike
27-30 Hurricane of Blood

Daily Attacks
01-14 Blinding Barrage
05-18 Walking Wounded
09-24 Knockout
15-30 Blade Cascade (ranger)
19-28 Snake’s Retreat
20-30 Final Blow
25-30 Ghost on the Wind
29-30 Assassin’s Point

Utilities
02-30 Tumble (E)
06-30 Ignoble Escape (E)
10-30 Shadow Stride (A)
12-30 Bad Idea, Friend (D)
16-30 Leaping Dodge (E)
22-30 Dazzling Acrobatics (E)
26-30 Epic Trick (D)

Hidden below are six snapshots of the character’s development at the most critical levels (1, 10, 11, 20, 21, 30.) With only slight modification, these can be printed off and used for a rogue of any level, 1 to 30. Each snapshot shows basic character stats, features, optimal exploits, feats and skills. The level 1 snapshot shows starting equipment. After that only magic items are listed. I went light on magic items. Customize as you see fit. Also shown is the attack modifier and damage dealt for the most typical at-will attack, Piercing Strike. Obviously, encounter and daily exploits will do significantly more damage. Combat advantage is presumed and factored so sneak attack damage is included. The only magic item included in damage calculations was the frost dagger. The only magic item included in AC calculations was the elven battle armor. Other defenses are modified by elven cloak. The only feats or abilities included in these calculations were ones with a constant bonus which always applies (like weapon focus and nimble blade.) No situational modifiers were included (like blood thirst and bloody evisceration.)

Not only does this present an optimized rogue at any level you’d like, it can be used as a starting point for development when future source books are published. Please feel free to comment or criticize. All suggestions will be evaluated and I will keep it updated with improvements. Enjoy!


Credits
My most gracious thanks to Sevarian. This character is his as much as mine.
Thanks to those who voluteered their insight: Vikingkingq, Tanath, rcuhljr and Machus
Also, credit to those who first presented rogues with blade cascade: HagiaSophia, Titanium Dragon, and especially Adslahnit and Fastbond for their work on the Orcuslayer thread.
Fond gratitude to MichaelStewart for providing a character illustration. Those who are interested can commission Mike to bring their character to life at www.michaelstewart.deviantart.com.
If you deserve credit, sorry I missed you. PM me for acknowledgement.

.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 2:44PM #2
Favored_Enemy
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 657
HEROIC TIER

Level 1 Snapshot Show
LEVEL 1 SNAPSHOT


Elf Rogue (brutal scoundrel)
Stats: Str 16; Con 12; Dex 18; Int 8; Wis 14; Cha 10
Combat: Hit Points 29; Initiative +4; Attack +10 v reflex; Damage 10-23
Defenses: AC 16; Fort 13; Ref 16; Will 12

Features
Elven Accuracy; Elven Weapon Proficiency; Fey Origin; Group Awareness; Wild Step
First Strike; Rogue Tactics; Rogue Weapon Talent; Sneak Attack

Exploits
At-will: Deft Strike; Piercing Strike
Encounter: King's Castle
Daily: Blinding Barrage

Feats
Toughness

Skills
Acrobatics; Athletics; Dungeoneering; Perception; Stealth; Thievery

Starting Equipment
Leather Armor
Dagger x4, Shuriken (5), Sling (20 bullets), Longbow (30 arrows)
Standard Adventurer's Kit, Climber's Kit, Thieves' Tools

Comments
Level 1 starts off with a brawny build, choosing brutal scoundrel for our rogue tactic. The benefit over artful dodger will come down the road by being able to take advantage of an good combination of exploits to achieve a higher damage output.
The character sacrifices the possibility of a 20 dexterity for a sturdy ability-tripod of Dex, Str and Wis. By doing so, all defenses (fortitude, reflexes and will) are covered and we take advantage of numerous benefits that together outweigh a single mega-stat.
Start with a wide variety of weapons. Held in hand are two daggers, one for melee, the other to throw if need be. Also on hand are shuriken, a sling and a longbow. Although the longbow can't be used to sneak attack, its range is a great advantage.
Toughness is the chosen feat for early survival and will be retrained at level 5. Chosen skills rely on our primary attributes. Acrobatics and Perception are particularly useful. Our at-will abilities are Piercing Strike, the best melee attack available, and Deft Strike to ensure flanking. This character is focused on melee combat but still has respectable range capabilities.

Damage Calculations for Piercing Strike (at-will attack exploit)
1d4 base + 4 dex + 2d6 sneak + 3 str = 10-23 damage
Level 10 Snapshot Show
LEVEL 10 SNAPSHOT


Elf Rogue (brutal scoundrel)
Stats: Str 18; Con 12; Dex 20; Int 8; Wis 14; Cha 10
Combat: Hit Points 69; Initiative +14; Attack +19 v reflex; Damage 15-32
Defenses: AC 24; Fort 21; Ref 24; Will 19

Features
Elven Accuracy; Elven Weapon Proficiency; Fey Origin; Group Awareness; Wild Step
First Strike; Rogue Tactics; Rogue Weapon Talent; Sneak Attack

Exploits
At-will: Deft Strike; Piercing Strike; Shadow Stride*
Encounter: Bait and Switch; Ignoble Escape*; Imperiling Strike; King's Castle; Tumble*
Daily: Blinding Barrage; Knockout; Walking Wounded
* utility exploits

Feats
Backstabber; Elven Precision; Improved Initiative; Nimble Blade; Warrior of the Wild; Weapon Focus

Skills
Acrobatics; Athletics; Dungeoneering; Nature; Perception; Stealth; Thievery

Magic Equipment
Frost Dagger +2
Elven Battle Leather Armor +2
Elven Cloak +2
Bracers of Defense (heroic)
Gloves of Piercing

Comments
Ability increases are dexterity and strength. That trend will continue through the build.
By now we’ve multiclassed lightly into ranger with Warrior of the Wild, giving us the access to the nature skill and hunter’s quarry.
Shadow Stride ups stealth capability. Tumble and Ignoble Escape give the movement edge in combat that the brutal scoundrel needs.

Damage Calculations for Piercing Strike (at-will attack exploit)
1d4 base + 5 dex + 1 focus + 2 dagger + 2d8 sneak + 4 str = 15-32 cold damage
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 2:45PM #3
Favored_Enemy
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 657
PARAGON TIER

Level 11 Snapshot Show
LEVEL 11 SNAPSHOT


Elf Rogue (brutal scoundrel/shadow assassin)
Stats: Str 19; Con 13; Dex 21; Int 9; Wis 15; Cha 11
Combat: Hit Points 75; Initiative +14; Attack +19 v reflex; Damage 20-44
Defenses: AC 24; Fort 21; Ref 24; Will 19

Features
Elven Accuracy; Elven Weapon Proficiency; Fey Origin; Group Awareness; Wild Step
First Strike; Rogue Tactics; Rogue Weapon Talent; Sneak Attack
Shadow Assassin's Action; Shadow Assassin's Reposte

Exploits
At-will: Deft Strike; Piercing Strike; Shadow Stride*
Encounter: Bait and Switch; Ignoble Escape*; Imperiling Strike; Killer's Strike; King's Castle; Tumble*
Daily: Blinding Barrage; Knockout; Walking Wounded
* utility exploits

Feats
Backstabber, Elven Precision; Improved Initiative; Lasting Frost; Nimble Blade; Warrior of the Wild; Wintertouched

Skills
Acrobatics; Athletics; Dungeoneering; Nature; Perception; Stealth; Thievery

Magic Equipment
Frost Dagger +2
Elven Battle Leather Armor +2
Elven Cloak +2
Bracers of Defense (heroic)
Gloves of Piercing

Comments
Shadow Assassin paragon path is chosen at level 11, giving two nice, new abilities.
This level also gives us a huge boost in damage. Now in paragon tier, we can access the combo of Lasting Frost, Wintertouched and a frost dagger. Retrain the Weapon Focus feat to be able to pick up both at the same time. From here on, it is important to wield a frost dagger.
Sneak attack damage bumps from two dice to three and hunter’s quarry ups to two dice.

Damage Calculations for Piercing Strike (at-will attack exploit)
1d4 base + 5 dex + 2 dagger + 5 frost + 3d8 sneak + 4 str = 20-44 cold damage
Level 20 Snapshot Show
LEVEL 20 SNAPSHOT


Elf Rogue (brutal scoundrel/shadow assassin)
Stats: Str 21; Con 13; Dex 23; Int 9; Wis 15; Cha 11
Combat: Hit Points 120; Initiative +20 best of two rolls; Attack +27 v reflex; Damage 26-50
Defenses: AC 33; Fort 29; Ref 32; Will 26

Features
Elven Accuracy; Elven Weapon Proficiency; Fey Origin; Group Awareness; Wild Step
First Strike; Rogue Tactics; Rogue Weapon Talent; Sneak Attack
Bloody Evisceration; Shadow Assassin's Action; Shadow Assassin's Reposte

Exploits
At-will: Deft Strike; Piercing Strike; Shadow Stride*
Encounter: Dragon Tail Strike; Ignoble Escape*; Imperiling Strike; Killer’s Eye; Leaping Dodge*; Stunning Strike; Tumble*
Daily: Bad Idea, Friend*; Blade Cascade; Final Blow; Knockout; Snake’s Retreat
* utility exploits

Feats
Adept Power; Backstabber; Blood Thirst; Danger Sense; Elven Precision; Improved Initiative; Lasting Frost; Light Blade Precision; Nimble Blade; Warrior of the Wild; Weapon Focus; Wintertouched

Skills
Acrobatics; Athletics; Dungeoneering; Nature; Perception; Stealth; Thievery

Magic Equipment
Frost Dagger +4 (x2)
Elven Battle Leather Armor +4
Elven Cloak +4
Bracers of Defense (paragon)
Gloves of Piercing

Comments
By the end of paragon tier, we have used Adept Power to garner Blade Cascade from the ranger exploits. We can now perform a deadly combo: Shadow Assassin’s Action, Imperiling Strike (w/elven precision) and Blade Cascade. This deals serious damage to a single opponent daily—a true assassin.
Leaping Dodge and Bad Idea, Friend add some nice defense.
Initiative has a nice boost with Danger Sense and we will almost always win.
Our weakness in Will defense really shows here.

Damage Calculations for Piercing Strike (at-will attack exploit)
1d4 base + 6 dex + 2 focus + 4 dagger + 5 frost + 3d8 sneak + 5 str = 26-50 cold damage
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 2:46PM #4
Favored_Enemy
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 657
EPIC TIER

Level 21 Snapshot Show
LEVEL 21 SNAPSHOT


Elf Rogue (brutal scoundrel/shadow assassin/deadly trickster)
Stats: Str 22; Con 14; Dex 24; Int 10; Wis 16; Cha 12
Combat: Hit Points 126; Initiative +21 best of two rolls; Attack +28 v reflex; Damage 32-73
Defenses: AC 34; Fort 30; Ref 33; Will 27

Features
Elven Accuracy; Elven Weapon Proficiency; Fey Origin; Group Awareness; Wild Step
First Strike; Rogue Tactics; Rogue Weapon Talent; Sneak Attack
Bloody Evisceration; Shadow Assassin's Action; Shadow Assassin's Reposte
Sly Fortune’s Favor

Exploits
At-will: Deft Strike; Piercing Strike; Shadow Stride*
Encounter: Dragon Tail Strike; Ignoble Escape*; Imperiling Strike; Killer’s Eye; Leaping Dodge*; Stunning Strike; Tumble*
Daily: Bad Idea, Friend*; Blade Cascade; Final Blow; Knockout; Snake’s Retreat
* utility exploits

Feats
Adept Power; Backstabber; Blood Thirst; Danger Sense; Elven Precision; Epic Resurgence; Improved Initiative; Lasting Frost; Light Blade Mastery; Nimble Blade; Warrior of the Wild; Weapon Focus; Wintertouched

Skills
Acrobatics; Athletics; Dungeoneering; Nature; Perception; Stealth; Thievery

Magic Equipment
Frost Dagger +4 (x2)
Elven Battle Feyleather Armor +4
Elven Cloak +4
Ring of Invisiblility
Bracers of Defense (paragon)
Gloves of Piercing

Comments
Epic tier has arrived and Deadly Trickster is a great epic path for anyone who can take it. Sly Fortune’s Favor makes our Blade Cascade combo very unlikely to miss. Overall damage output improves greatly. Sneak attack increases to five dice, hunter’s quarry to three, and base weapon damage is doubled on our at-will exploits.
Epic Resurgence and Light Blade Mastery are two fantastic feat gains at this level (temporarily retrain light blade precision to gain both.)
Our ability stats really come in nicely at this level, giving a broad range of benefits.

Damage Calculations for Piercing Strike (at-will attack exploit)
2d4 base + 7 dex + 3 focus + 4 dagger + 5 frost + 5d8 sneak + 6 str = 32-73 cold damage
Level 30 Snapshot Show
LEVEL 30 SNAPSHOT


Elf Rogue (brutal scoundrel/shadow assassin/deadly trickster)
Stats: Str 24; Con 14; Dex 26; Int 10; Wis 16; Cha 12
Combat: Hit Points 171; Initiative +27 best of two rolls; Attack +36 v reflex; Damage 37-78
Defenses: AC 43; Fort 37; Ref 40; Will 33

Features
Elven Accuracy; Elven Weapon Proficiency; Fey Origin; Group Awareness; Wild Step
First Strike; Rogue Tactics; Rogue Weapon Talent; Sneak Attack
Bloody Evisceration; Shadow Assassin's Action; Shadow Assassin's Reposte
Sly Fortune’s Favor; Trickster’s Control; Trickster’s Disposition

Exploits
At-will: Deft Strike; Piercing Strike; Shadow Stride*
Encounter: Dazzling Acrobatics*; Hurricane of Blood; Ignoble Escape*; Imperiling Strike; Killer’s Eye; Leaping Dodge*; Scorpion Strike; Tumble*
Daily: Assassin’s Point; Bad Idea, Friend*; Blade Cascade; Epic Trick*; Final Blow; Ghost on the Wind
* utility exploits

Feats
Adept Power; Backstabber; Blind-Fight; Blood Thirst; Danger Sense; Elven Precision; Epic Resurgence; Improved Initiative; Lasting Frost; Light Blade Mastery; Light Blade Precision; Nimble Blade; Two-Weapon Fighting; Two-Weapon Flurry; Unfettered Stride; Warrior of the Wild; Weapon Focus; Wintertouched

Skills
Acrobatics; Athletics; Dungeoneering; Nature; Perception; Stealth; Thievery

Magic Equipment
Frost Dagger +6 (x2)
Elven Battle Starleather Armor +6
Boots of the Infinite Stride
Belt of Titan Strength
Helm of Ghostly Defense
Elven Cloak +5
Ring of Flight
Ring of Invisiblility
Bracers of Defense (paragon)
Gloves of Piercing

Comments
The pinnacle of the build.

Damage Calculations for Piercing Strike (at-will attack exploit)
2d4 base + 8 dex + 3 focus + 1 t-w.f. + 6 dagger + 5 frost + 5d8 sneak + 7 str = 37-78 cold damage
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 4:29PM #5
wilbur07
Date Joined: Jun 17, 2005
Posts: 99
I'm a newbie so forgive me for a stupid question:

Why does your 1st and 10th level snapshot list 2d6 sneak attack and 2d8 sneak attack? I thought the rulebook states it's 1d6 and 1d8 with Backstabber feat?
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 6:21PM #6
Favored_Enemy
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 657

wilbur07 wrote:

Why does your 1st and 10th level snapshot list 2d6 sneak attack and 2d8 sneak attack? I thought the rulebook states it's 1d6 and 1d8 with Backstabber feat?


Sneak attack damage at levels 1-10 is +2d6. Backstabber will make that +2d8. Perhaps you are thinking of the ranger ability called hunter's quarry? That is +1d6 at levels 1-10.

Comment freely, everyone! If you like things about this build, let me know. If you have any corrections or improvements, no matter how small, let me know that as well. I'm hoping to get plenty of feedback.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 6:44PM #7
Loriness
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 3
FE: At Lvl 1, how did u get HP=29 even with toughness? and Initiative=+14?
would have thought that HP would be more like 18=12(base)+1(con)+5(feat) and initiative=+4
attack basic would be +8 = 4(dex) + 3(dagger) +1 (class)
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 6:51PM #8
Favored_Enemy
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 657

Loriness wrote:

FE: At Lvl 1, how did u get HP=29 even with toughness? and Initiative=+14?
would have thought that HP would be more like 18=12(base)+1(con)+5(feat) and initiative=+4
attack basic would be +8 = 4(dex) + 3(dagger) +1 (class)


Loriness, thank you for posting! For hit points, you now add your consitution ability score (not modifier) at first level. So 12 base + 12 con + 5 feat = 29. On the initiative, you are quite right. That is a typo, I copied the initiative from the L10 snapshot. I'll edit that right away. Concerning the attack modifier, as I mentioned in the first post, combat advantage is assumed in these calculations. Hence, an additional +2 for a total of +10.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 30, 2008 - 10:26PM #9
SongNSilence
Date Joined: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 1,274
Very nice build and analysis over the levels. Good job !

Since the build is not completely dependent on Blade Cascade and Frost Weapon, and my DM ruled them out (i guess most DMs will rule out at least Blade Cascade), could you perhaps show the next best strategy in your higher level snapshots ?
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 01, 2008 - 5:50PM #10
Favored_Enemy
Date Joined: Nov 28, 2004
Posts: 657

SongNSilence wrote:

Very nice build and analysis over the levels. Good job !


Thank you!

SongNSilence wrote:

Since the build is not completely dependent on Blade Cascade and Frost Weapon, and my DM ruled them out (i guess most DMs will rule out at least Blade Cascade), could you perhaps show the next best strategy in your higher level snapshots ?


Sure, I can do that. You are right. The build is well rounded and robust without those strategies.

Blade Cascade is what puts the build head and shoulders above other strikers, no doubt, but to remove that aspect is simple in the extreme. Choose a different level 15 rogue power. That's it. No other alterations are necessary because everything else that goes along with that combination is good on its own. I'd still keep Warrior of the Wild. I was happy not to have to choose a level 15 exploit because they are all good in their own way. Slaying Strike is probably your safest bet.

Replacing Lasting Frost and Wintertouched is only a little more involved. Obviously, you won't need frost daggers. Replace them with duelist's daggers or wraith blades (dragon magazine.) Replace gloves of piercing with gauntlets of destruction at appropriate levels.

These changes will make room for three new feats to replace Adept Power and the frost feats. Try this:

L11 danger sense
L12 blood thirst
L14 light blade precision
L16 fleet-footed
L18 back to the wall
L20 Iron Will

By the way, when you say your DM ruled out these things, did he just remove them altogether as an option or did he make replacement effects? It would be a shame if the poor ranger lost a daily exploit option compared to everyone else.

Hopefully, he at least realizes that Blade Cascade combos are completely legal. Perhaps this can lead you two to come to an agreement on some house-rule limitation that can keep it in line. That way you can still use it to an acceptible effect. I know there is a lot of talk on options to nerf this exploit.

The frost combo, just so you and your DM know, is also perfectly legal. The rules are on page 226, in the third paragraph under "Power." Here is a quote from customer service that is posted in the Q&A forum.

Q: Does a Frost weapon trigger effects based on the Cold keyword such as Wintertouched and Lasting Frost?

A: As PHB page 226 states, using a weapon with a keyword in an attack made with a racial or class power, the power you are using does gain the weapon's keyword.

Thus making using attack with a Frost Weapon makes that power be Cold as well as whatever other types of damage it was. If you use the weapon's free action power, all damage will be cold.

This will function with both the Winter Touched and Lasting Frost feats.

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