Dreadful Word 3(5)/9/6 Ironically, this is probably the best choice for a Feylock, not a Starlock, since they kinda need the extra damage, and the minus –2 to Will sets them up nicely for an Eyebite or Curse of the Dark Dream next turn. Whereas, at least initially, the Starlock can’t actually chain this onto another attack besides Dread Star. Becomes slightly better for Starlocks once they get Sign of Ill Omen, if they’re getting that. Inferlocks don’t have the charisma for this; but theres a better score in brackets for tieflings taking advantage of Hellfire Blood (but even they should probably take Witchfire)
Witchfire 5(8)/6/9 Probably the best choice for Starlocks, since it has a similar sort of effect to Dire Radiance (keeping foes away) whereas, again, the Feylock might seem a bit off on this power, since its much better for them to turn invisible and leap away than give a debuff and still risk taking a hit. Inferlocks are better staying with what they know, except in the case of tieflings and their Hellfire blood again, since this is a fire power (the only one this level, and its not infernal, figure that one out!).
I'm not quite sure if I agree with this for the feylock.
First, any feylock with a reasonable INT will get a mod for the Witchfire, making it 2+x. Dreadful Word only gives the enemy a -1 to Will (not -2, unless you're a starlock with decent INT).
It seems to me that longer range and a decent penatly to hit is worth more than a simple -1 to Will for the feylock.
I think a 9 rating for Dreadful Word would be accurate if it really was a -2, but as a -1, it shouldn't be that high.
On the same note, with a decent INT mod, you could easily reduces your enemy's ability to attack by -4 or -5, something pretty valuable, a bit more valuable that a 6 rating.
I'm not quite sure if I agree with this for the feylock.
First, any feylock with a reasonable INT will get a mod for the Witchfire, making it 2+x. Dreadful Word only gives the enemy a -1 to Will (not -2, unless you're a starlock with decent INT).
It seems to me that longer range and a decent penatly to hit is worth more than a simple -1 to Will for the feylock.
I think a 9 rating for Dreadful Word would be accurate if it really was a -2, but as a -1, it shouldn't be that high.
On the same note, with a decent INT mod, you could easily reduces your enemy's ability to attack by -4 or -5, something pretty valuable, a bit more valuable that a 6 rating.
Any thoughts?
EDIT: btw, awesome guide!
I agre with you. Starlocks especially could have at least a +2 or +3 Int Modifier to make a -4 penalty of the Will save. Higher than a 6 IMO.
Probably a Warlord then, if its a push-pull party. They can do several things like that at later levels. Alternatively, have a Fighter who multiclasses into Cleric, with a speciality with Spears or Polearms for the Push-Pull powers (personally I prefer spears, though they're less optimized...). Less effective on the leader role, but two tanks that are both pseudo leaders is quite alright (a Pally is always a pseudo-leader)
And don't worry Ian, I haven't forgotten about this thread, but I composed the initial guide on my week off when I had time to burn. RealLife TM has a way of screwing with your hobbies. It will be done...eventually...
Hi Eharper,
BTW Harrow Storm deserves its 8 rating could be even more, if you have a Wizard going Blood Mage for Blood Pulse. For example Mage casts Blood Pulse It does 2d6 nothing special but target takes a d6 for every square it leaves, now have the Hell'Lock cast Harrow Storm 2d10 and you slide the target 5+ int mod should be at least 5 or 6 squares making this cheap little combo worth 2d6 +int mod (initial via Blood Pulse) +2d10 + con mod (from Harrowstorm) +11d6 from the slide. Figuring at least +5 for each attribute (for Wizard & Warlock) thats an average of 66.5 points of untyped damage (figured at 13th Level)....whoohooo!Its a good smack!
Hi guys, finished the Epic (lvl 25-30) powers, finally. W00t!
Told you I hadn't abandoned this...
Ian: Yeah, I love Harrowstorm. Like I said, its a bazooka with a boxing glove. And, as you say, it can be abused with a Blood Mage combo. I'll think about that for when I finally get round to the builds and multiclassing considerations...
Mgshamster/AEDAN: Hmm, I wonder...since a Starlock is already totally MAD with their CON and CHA requirements, giving them a 16 INT as well seems out of the window. It was for this reason I thought it was better for feylocks (tiefling feys especially).
I actually speak of this after experience with my Witch. Finding it fairly useless (with -2 Will only and nothing to chain it to) I did in fact retrain Dreadful Word out for homebrew star pact version of Diabolic Grasp (sort of) that my GM allowed called 'Twilight Arrow', which is 3d4, push 1, and a Star Pact'er knocks 'em prone. But failing that, I would've definately picked Witchfire.
Though you're right about it being a -1 for non starlocks, not a -2. Don't know what I was smoking when I wrote that. I'll correct it (and maybe lower the rating slightly, when I get round to it).
EDIT: Now that I mentioned it, I may as well say I've made a whole bunch of Warlock custom things. If you guys are interested, I'll pop 'em up on the House Rules section. You may have already noticed (if you go there) that I've put up a Feats topic and a fighting styles for the fighter revamp. [/shamelessplug]
EDIT2: Added Pro's and Con's to the Racial Selection bit.
Mgshamster/AEDAN: Hmm, I wonder...since a Starlock is already totally MAD with their CON and CHA requirements, giving them a 16 INT as well seems out of the window. It was for this reason I thought it was better for feylocks (tiefling feys especially).
I actually speak of this after experience with my Witch. Finding it fairly useless (with -2 Will only and nothing to chain it to) I did in fact retrain Dreadful Word out for homebrew star pact version of Diabolic Grasp (sort of) that my GM allowed called 'Twilight Arrow', which is 3d4, push 1, and a Star Pact'er knocks 'em prone. But failing that, I would've definately picked Witchfire.
Though you're right about it being a -1 for non starlocks, not a -2. Don't know what I was smoking when I wrote that. I'll correct it (and maybe lower the rating slightly, when I get round to it).
EDIT: Now that I mentioned it, I may as well say I've made a whole bunch of Warlock custom things. If you guys are interested, I'll pop 'em up on the House Rules section. You may have already noticed (if you go there) that I've put up a Feats topic and a fighting styles for the fighter revamp. [/shamelessplug]
EDIT2: Added Pro's and Con's to the Racial Selection bit.
Heya, thanks for the response. I thought I would provide some insight into why a minimum of 16 Int is desirable for a CHR starlock (at least in the build I provided)
1. Most of the powers are CHR based with some secondary INT effects. 2. Scorching blast is a Dilettante power and is INT based. 3. There are very few CON based powers chosen. CON is the second highest stat. These powers will still have a good chance at hitting the targets defense. (post 21st level there are more CON based powers to choses from. Some of these powers really great and a higher CON would be desirable. However, up to 21st level most are still CHR based. A complete build to 30th would try to have similar stats in CON and CHR to take full advantage of the best powers. In most instances though, average players will be playing in the heroic and paragon tiers. Epic level play has different optimization techiniques to take advantage of. A lower INT in epic play would be desirable to balance out CHR and CON abilities) 4. Dex is a dump stat for this Warlock so INT needs to be higher to compensate for AC and Reflex defense. The +3 bonus of a 16 INT is HUGE for balancing out lower defenses. 5. The build I provided is a FACELOCK. Most skills are based on CHR but a small bonus to some INT based skills helps round out the character.
6. Also, one might argue that maximizing CHR to 20 at level one is not the best for optimization purposes. I specifically chose this path to help make the powers "stick" more often. It is very difficult to get "to hit" bonuses in 4e. A +1 can make a huge difference in affecting your targets. Also, my primary goal was to choose more CHR based powers.
...just some reasons. I still believe the biggest reason is to balance out defenses for the character. Some DM's will automatically target your weakest save, and having a low reflex will hurt a lot. This is one of the reasons that I chose the feats, lightning reflexes and great fortitude for this character. These feats are golden!
Thanks for the comments. I hope that this straight build will help out some players that want to play a non-multiclassed character.
You do realise that in your build, you still have the 14 INT, though right? :D Are you arguing in general that INT is good...or that its good with the build? If the latter, you're gonna have to sacrifice something else somewhere...
Anyhow, as for prioritizing your Starlocks INT over his CON. Its still a reasonable choice, but the main issue is with the fact that your At-Will is CON based, and the at-will is something that you'll be using extensively at lower levels. Admittedly though, you can ignore Dire Radiance and just use Eldritch Blast keyed in CHA instead. But you are deliberately limiting your own options then.
Some thoughts I'd like to point out about your reasons:
3. Actually, from my compiled list of power stuff I made up for this guide, there are 4 of each before 10th level, 2 of each from 11-20th, and then 3 CON, 1 CHA after 21st. Though the Doomsayer Paragon ones are CHA also. Since there are two paragon powers, this means that there are exactly 9 of each type of power. So, its equal, not biased to CHA. I realise your build is taking some of the Feylock stuff mind you, (which is certainly a good choice since your CHA is superior) but I just thought I'd point that out.
You are indeed correct about the INT based effects though. Which is why I wholeheartly recommend it as a secondary stat. Sadly, if a Starlock wants good choice between their CON and CHA powers, INT is going to be stuck at 14.
4. Personally, I wouldn't dump DEX. STR and WIS are both better dumpstats, STR especially...you're not gonna be hitting stuff in melee (well, unless your a melee build...of course). DEX, mind you, gives Initiative. Which, though not quite as important to you as it is to Rogues and Control Wizards, is still great to have, even if you're gonna pick up improved initiative. Immobilizing that monster before it even gets to act is a satisfying, and powerful thing. Its true that it does conflict with INT for AC and Reflex, however, but redundancy is actually irrelevant for a Starlock since CON will give them FORT and the CHA will give them WILL.
But indeed, besides these thoughts, you've got yourself a good build there.
You do realise that in your build, you still have the 14 INT, though right? :D Are you arguing in general that INT is good...or that its good with the build? If the latter, you're gonna have to sacrifice something else somewhere...
Thanks for the reply. I would not advise most starlocks, especially ones that focus on the balances CON/CHR builds to take a higher INT like I did (It will max out at 17) The objective was to get the +3 bonus to INT in the build. This only really works well to the straight CHR - pre-epic build that I posted. I agree with you about sacrificing points though.
eharper256 wrote:
Anyhow, as for prioritizing your Starlocks INT over his CON. Its still a reasonable choice, but the main issue is with the fact that your At-Will is CON based, and the at-will is something that you'll be using extensively at lower levels. Admittedly though, you can ignore Dire Radiance and just use Eldritch Blast keyed in CHA instead. But you are deliberately limiting your own options then.
Actually, the prioritazion of abilities at 21st level turn out to be like this - 28 CHR, 20 CON, 17 INT, 12, Dex, 12 WIS, 8 STR. Yes, eldritch blast is the primary at-will, but if you know monsters have weaker CON, you can still take advantage of the dire radiance to good effect (at a +5)
eharper256 wrote:
Some thoughts I'd like to point out about your reasons:
3. Actually, from my compiled list of power stuff I made up for this guide, there are 4 of each before 10th level, 2 of each from 11-20th, and then 3 CON, 1 CHA after 21st. Though the Doomsayer Paragon ones are CHA also. Since there are two paragon powers, this means that there are exactly 9 of each type of power. So, its equal, not biased to CHA. I realise your build is taking some of the Feylock stuff mind you, (which is certainly a good choice since your CHA is superior) but I just thought I'd point that out.
Using some of the other FEYLOCK abilities is crutial to the build and was deliberate. I didn't mean to imply that there were more CHR based powers in the STARLOCK path. The FEYLOCK powers really help balance out the power base for the character.
eharper256 wrote:
You are indeed correct about the INT based effects though. Which is why I wholeheartly recommend it as a secondary stat. Sadly, if a Starlock wants good choice between their CON and CHA powers, INT is going to be stuck at 14.
4. Personally, I wouldn't dump DEX. STR and WIS are both better dumpstats, STR especially...you're not gonna be hitting stuff in melee (well, unless your a melee build...of course). DEX, mind you, gives Initiative. Which, though not quite as important to you as it is to Rogues and Control Wizards, is still great to have, even if you're gonna pick up improved initiative. Immobilizing that monster before it even gets to act is a satisfying, and powerful thing. Its true that it does conflict with INT for AC and Reflex, however, but redundancy is actually irrelevant for a Starlock since CON will give them FORT and the CHA will give them WILL.
But indeed, besides these thoughts, you've got yourself a good build there.
I agree about having at least a 14 INT somewhere down the line. Because I made the CHR a 18(20) at 1st level, some other ability sacrifices had to be made. Initially, INT started at 14, and CON at 13 with CHR at 20. Over the course of heroic and paragon paths CON got a significant boost. STR and WIS are the reall dump stats in the build. I did not intend to imply that DEX was not as important to the character. Its just not one ability that I was focusing on. Initiative optimization is important, and you are right about that aspect. Improved initiative and danger sense should compensate well for the build though. It is a tough choice to balance out defenses, ultimately I have to focus on INT as the tertiary score rather than DEX to get a moderate bonus to the reflex defense.
Thanks for the good comments, a great guide btw. Your analysis on the powers is very helpful.
