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4 years ago ::
May 30, 2009 - 1:38PM
#81
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You don't really need the oath actually, just the bond of retribution at will and some serious aoe marking... Swordmage(shielding)|Avenger->Sigil Carver (for opportunity attacks at range and the other goodies)->Demigod Pick armor of faith with hybrid talent. Try to mark an entire group of enemies and use bond of retribution on the most dangerous foe. Profit. 
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 12:16AM
#82
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Bard - If this had multiclass mastery as a hybrid talent option it would be amazing, otherwise it's class features are too diverse to make taking any of them a "must-have" option. I think it would be better if they either gave you Song of Rest initially or combined it with Words of Friendship.
I agree that the hybrid talent choices are pretty lousy for the bard, but the bard is a nice charisma-match for another hybrid.
Druid - This is the exact same benefit as the multiclass feat...and its options don't seem that good to me. If you're looking for a splash of druid there's no reason to ever take this, If you're wanting more than that, you give up too much to take this. I think they should probably give you a bonus beast power at will.
I was also very disappointed in the druid. The fact that weapons are dropped when one turns into a beast complicates this hybrid even more. It seems like there ought to be some good choices since there are lots of wisdom based matches, but I don't see them.
I also thought that Warden pairs well with most classes. Using his hybrid talents allows you to use Wis, Con, Int, or Dex along with hide armor and heavy shields. For most classes, that can be 18-19 AC. Sorcerers can use Str if they want. The warden forms are generally excellent, and the encounter powers are not overly dependent on Wis/Con. Plus at-will marking is fun, especially with something like 'Soldier of Conquest' (gives CA against any target you have marked). Rogue|Warden anyone?
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 2:40AM
#83
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My initial assessment seems to think these are the "best" combinations: [...]
These are the hybrid options that seem to be kinda weak compared to the rest: [...]
I'd like to second this post in its entirety.
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 3:09AM
#84
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The Warlock's Twofold pact cheese made me question, too, but I'm glad a hybrilock gets the power-riders. On several encounter powers the only thing that makes them useful is the bonus from the pact-type.
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 5:29AM
#85
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In regards to the Hybrid Paragon option, do you count as either of the classes for the purposes of feats that require you to paragon multi class?
For example can a Fighter Cleric hybrid who becomes a hybrid paragon take one of the feats from Martial Power that require you to have paragon multi classed as a Fighter?
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 5:47AM
#86
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No. They are MC feats and you can't take MC feats from either of your hybrid classes.
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 8:02AM
#87
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2009
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Warlock|(Anything) - Twofold Pact makes this stupid good atm, even if nerfed to only one pact boon/at-will it's still stupid good.
Agree with everything else in that post but that. And really I'd only add a qualifier on that statement. At Heroic levels if you spend your Hybrid Talent feat on whatever your other class is, Hybrid Warlock brings basically nothing to the table. At Heroic levels you're essentially playing a nerfed version of your other class, with a splash of Warlock powers (and curse damage on the Warlock powers). Even spending your Hybrid talent feat on Warlock you've got a rough choice to make.
If you're starting at Paragon level then yeah... Warlocks have silly stupid options. Heroic levels could be rough.
Oh.. and if you're foolish enough to be playing a Cha based Warlock Hybrid you have the potential to make a train wreck of a character. Think Feylock| Charadin or Feylock|Bard. Pretty sure those combo's are huge traps.
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 9:17AM
#88
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Here's a sample Avenger|Swordmage/Feytouched based off the Avenging Ghostporter and Feysword builds up to paragon levels. The purpose is to maximize your Slashing Wake: teleport as move, teleport with attack, teleport as reaction, etc. RACE: Shadar-kai STARTING ABILITIES
- STR 8 CON 10 DEX 12 INT 17 WIS 17 CHA 13
- Armor Prof: Cloth
- Implement: Hvy Blades
- Defense Bonus: +1 Fort (Avg), + 1 Will (Swd)
- Start HP: 7 (Avg) + 7.5 (Swd) = 14
- HP/level: 3 (Avg) + 3 (Swd) = 6
- Surges: 3.5 (Avg) + 4 (Swd) = 7
CLASS FEATURES
- Hybrid Oath of Enmity
- Hybrid Aegis of Assault
- Swordbond
FEATS
- Level 1: Hybrid Talent (Armor of Faith)
- Level 2: Power of Skill or Melee Training (Wisdom) or Intelligent Blademaster
- Level 4: Weapon Proficiency (Fullblade)
- Level 6: Mark of Passage or Devious Jaunt
- Level 8: Pact Initiate
- Level 10: Acolyte Power
- PP: Feytouched
- Level 11: Shadowed Aegis
- Level 12: Sequestering Jaunt
- Level 14: Reactive Jaunt
POWERS At-Will
- Avenger 1: Overwhelming Strike
- Swordmage 1: Sword Burst
Encounter
- Swordmage 1: Blazing Pursuit (AP)
- Avenger 3: Sequestering Strike
- Avenger 7: Blade Step
Daily
- Avenger 1: Oath of the Final Duel
- Swordmage 5: Dimensional Bond (AP)
- Swordmage 9: Lightning Strider (D367)
Utility
- Avenger 2: Resonant Escape
- Swordmage 6: Armathor’s Step
- Avenger 10: Channel Endurance (retrained to Etheral Sidestep at Acolyte Power)
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 9:56AM
#89
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2008
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Originally Posted by Stardock
Warlock|(Anything) - Twofold Pact makes this stupid good atm, even if nerfed to only one pact boon/at-will it's still stupid good.
Agree with everything else in that post but that. And really I'd only add a qualifier on that statement. At Heroic levels if you spend your Hybrid Talent feat on whatever your other class is, Hybrid Warlock brings basically nothing to the table.
I'm not sure I agree. Getting one full pact with Twofold Pact isn't that much more of a benefit for the hybrid Warlock than it is for a regular Warlock. This is how I see it:
- the extra at-will is about equally beneficial for both hybrid and regular
- free options makes Twofold Pact better for the hybrid - the regular may choose to use the best boon for each situation, the hybrid may choose any at-will attack, "swap" one Boon for another better feature of another class at creation and still get any one pact boon at 11th
No biggie really, IMO. But perhaps Stardock meant the feat itself is "stupid good"? It might be, but I don't think it's enough to make Warlocks overpowered, exactly. At Heroic levels you're essentially playing a nerfed version of your other class, with a splash of Warlock powers (and curse damage on the Warlock powers). Even spending your Hybrid talent feat on Warlock you've got a rough choice to make.
Huh? I think the Hybrid Warlock brings two major things to the table:
- pact bonuses with powers (riders, extra damage etc)
- Warlock's Curse
That's plenty IMO, especially when comparing to what many other hybrids have to offer in terms of starting class features. Maybe the Hybrid Talent options are a bit uninteresting - Pact Boon doesn't bring that much of a benefit and you can get a Boon and several other benefits at 11th anyway, Prime Shot and Shadow Walk are ok I guess, but their usefulness is highly dependent on what the other hybrid class is. But on the other hand, most hybrid classes don't have that much more interesting Hybrid Talent options.
Test your PC builds' combat prowess and pit them against other builds at the Core Coliseum - the online D&D arena.
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4 years ago ::
May 31, 2009 - 3:28PM
#90
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Agree with everything else in that post but that. And really I'd only add a qualifier on that statement. At Heroic levels if you spend your Hybrid Talent feat on whatever your other class is, Hybrid Warlock brings basically nothing to the table. At Heroic levels you're essentially playing a nerfed version of your other class, with a splash of Warlock powers (and curse damage on the Warlock powers). Even spending your Hybrid talent feat on Warlock you've got a rough choice to make.
If you're starting at Paragon level then yeah... Warlocks have silly stupid options. Heroic levels could be rough.
Oh.. and if you're foolish enough to be playing a Cha based Warlock Hybrid you have the potential to make a train wreck of a character. Think Feylock| Charadin or Feylock|Bard. Pretty sure those combo's are huge traps.
You're right, in general the hybrid case of the warlock in heroic tier is weaker than the regular warlock in most cases. There are still some potent combinations though. For example: Sorcerer(Cosmic)|Warlock is pretty much a regular cosmic sorcerer with benefits.
To me it's kinda like playing a half-elf, you make a choice at level 1, that isn't really that good until you hit level 11.
Also, I don't really think Feylock|Chaladin is that big of a trap (at least no more than the regular paladin class is). It could be fun playing a warlock in plate. Warlock|Bard is clearly a trap in most cases though.
I'm not sure I agree. Getting one full pact with Twofold Pact isn't that much more of a benefit for the hybrid Warlock than it is for a regular Warlock. This is how I see it:
- the extra at-will is about equally beneficial for both hybrid and regular
- free options makes Twofold Pact better for the hybrid - the regular may choose to use the best boon for each situation, the hybrid may choose any at-will attack, "swap" one Boon for another better feature of another class at creation and still get any one pact boon at 11th
No biggie really, IMO. But perhaps Stardock meant the feat itself is "stupid good"? It might be, but I don't think it's enough to make Warlocks overpowered, exactly.
The problem right now is that Twofold Pact is much better for the hybrid warlock because it gives him 2 pact boons and 2 at-wills for the cost of a feat. So the hybrid warlock ends up with 4 at-will powers at 11th level and gets to choose 2 of them whereas the regular warlock ends up with 3 at-will powers and gets to choose none of them.
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