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1 year ago ::
Apr 17, 2009 - 9:04AM
#1
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(edit: there are updated versions of this character - please look to post 11 for the newer version and 17 for DPR calculations) Half-Elf Str 10, Con 13, Dex 17, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 18 Artful Dodger Rogue/Bard/Daggermaster/Demigod(for simplicity) Dilettante: Twin Strike Always boost Dex/Cha until 28th when you boost Con/Cha - final stats are: Str 12, Con 16, Dex 26, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 28 Background: Waterdeep(Diplomacy as class skill + other things) Skills: Stealth, Thievery, Acrobatics, Perception, Diplomacy, Streetwise, Bluff Feats: 1: Weapon Expertise 2: Melee Training(Cha) 4: Distant Advantage -> TWF(12th) 6: Action Surge 8: Bardic Dilettante 10: Combat Virtuoso(Use Cha with Twin Strike instead of Str or Dex) 11: Versatile Mastery 12: Two Weapon Opening Powers: At Wills: Piercing Strike, Deft Strike, Twin Strike(11th) Encounter: Positioning Strike, Nasty Backswing, Snap Shot, Critical Opportunity Dailies: Blinding Barrage, Compel the Craven, Knockout Utilities: Adaptable Flanker, Vexing Flanker, Combat Tumbleset, Meditation of the Blade -------- Notes: Most encounter powers are some kind of free, trigger, or minor action. At low levels, the character should open up with Twin Strike via shooting a hand crossbow while using First Strike if possible. Also at low levels, Charging almost functions as another at-will for him - he gets +2 to hit/+1 damage with it. Why Nasty Backswing over Low Slash? Twin Strike should generate a high number of initial misses and the free CA can be useful. Compel the Craven is an awesome Daily. 2 good attacks at a minimum and more if you've got a good melee backup. Obviously, the build is missing some of the defensive and damage feats - that should be the next area to concentrate on. WF, TWDefense, etc...but otherwise, the vast majority of the build should be reasonably clear after this. What's particularly interesting about the build to me is that while it basically functions as the standard Str/Dex Twin Striking Ranger/Daggermaster in terms of primary role, an always useful striker, it also gives the party an extremely effective face. And of course, hearing that a Rogue/Bard is about to join the party ought to make powergamers cringe...  Thoughts?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2009 - 1:21PM
#2
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"Combat Virtuoso" is a Bard Feat ? or power - had a quick look, coudnt find it ?
What does Arcane Power have to do with it ?
Why the need to take Combat Virtuoso when as a Brutal Scoundrel you can just build up Strength ? - ah the +2 Charisma for Half Elf
"That lets you grab pretty much all free action, trigger without fail, or minor action powers" - what do you mean specifically ?
Looks like fun but its a heck of a lot of feats just to say you are Bard ?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2009 - 3:15PM
#3
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"Combat Virtuoso" is a Bard Feat ? or power - had a quick look, coudnt find it ?
What does Arcane Power have to do with it ?
Why the need to take Combat Virtuoso when as a Brutal Scoundrel you can just build up Strength ? - ah the +2 Charisma for Half Elf
"That lets you grab pretty much all free action, trigger without fail, or minor action powers" - what do you mean specifically ?
Looks like fun but its a heck of a lot of feats just to say you are Bard ?
Half-Elf lets you grab a Dilettante power - Twin Strike
Half-Elf lets you take Versatile Mastery(PHBII) - makes Twin Strike into an at-will
Bard lets you grab Combat Virtuoso(from Arcane Power) - lets all multiclass powers and dilettante use Charisma to hit. So you get the advantage of using your 18 Charisma for both melee and ranged with it. Which is about as good as it gets without sacrificing Dexterity. The Brutal Scoundrel Half-Elf just has 16s and the non-half-elf has to spend a lot of feats/paragon path to get Twin Strike or start off as a Ranger and multi into Rogue for Daggermaster.
Bard also gets you a free heal with a slide 1(which can be tactically awesome at times - slide 1 away from the thing with immediate actions in melee that's marked you, throw daggers, then do a normal move away from it)
Daggermaster does all the obvious things
The free action/trigger/minor action powers mean that you use them and Twin Strike rather than an action that is similar to Twin Strike with stat modifiers.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2009 - 3:22PM
#4
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Half-Elf lets you grab a Dilettante power - Twin Strike
Half-Elf lets you take Versatile Mastery(PHBII) - makes Twin Strike into an at-will
Bard lets you grab Combat Virtuoso(from Arcane Power) - lets all multiclass powers and dilettante use Charisma to hit. So you get the advantage of using your 18 Charisma for both melee and ranged with it. Which is about as good as it gets without sacrificing Dexterity. The Brutal Scoundrel Half-Elf just has 16s and the non-half-elf has to spend a lot of feats/paragon path to get Twin Strike or start off as a Ranger and multi into Rogue for Daggermaster.
i guess his point is, you can get str/dex 16 for the same price as dex16/cha18, and reach str/dex 26 in epic, without changing any other aspect of the build. Sure, thats -1 to hit for twin strike. But its also two times +8 damage from brutal scoundrel, which might be a fair trade, especially since you now have two free feats to spare (Combat Virtuoso, Bard MC). Pick up Nimble Blade, and you have the same to hit, better damage and one feat to spare (so if you really still want to spend a feat on bard mc, you can).
The combination Bard/Combat virtuoso and Half-Elf Versatile Mastery is great, but in this very special case, its not necessary...
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2009 - 4:29PM
#5
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i guess his point is, you can get str/dex 16 for the same price as dex16/cha18, and reach str/dex 26 in epic, without changing any other aspect of the build. Sure, thats -1 to hit for twin strike. But its also two times +8 damage from brutal scoundrel, which might be a fair trade,
I'm not claiming this to be the best DPR build. I'm claiming this to be an extremely useful party face who also happens to be competitive with some of the stronger DPR builds. And throws some healing on top of it.
If you've ever played in a skill challenge heavy LFR mod where no one can make a charisma-skill check, you'll know just how valuable that can be...
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2009 - 4:37PM
#6
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I'm not claiming this to be the best DPR build. I'm claiming this to be an extremely useful party face who also happens to be competitive with some of the stronger DPR builds. And throws some healing on top of it.
If you've ever played in a skill challenge heavy LFR mod where no one can make a charisma-skill check, you'll know just how valuable that can be...
No worries, you build is perfectly fine, and roleplaying a charismatic trickster is definitely more fun than a hulking brute  . I was just under the impression that you maybe misunderstood his intention, so i tried to clarify...
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2009 - 5:52PM
#7
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No worries, you build is perfectly fine, and roleplaying a charismatic trickster is definitely more fun than a hulking brute . I was just under the impression that you maybe misunderstood his intention, so i tried to clarify...
No problem
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2009 - 5:59PM
#8
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Half-Elf lets you grab a Dilettante power - Twin Strike
Half-Elf lets you take Versatile Mastery(PHBII) - makes Twin Strike into an at-will
Bard lets you grab Combat Virtuoso(from Arcane Power) - lets all multiclass powers and dilettante use Charisma to hit. So you get the advantage of using your 18 Charisma for both melee and ranged with it. Which is about as good as it gets without sacrificing Dexterity. The Brutal Scoundrel Half-Elf just has 16s and the non-half-elf has to spend a lot of feats/paragon path to get Twin Strike or start off as a Ranger and multi into Rogue for Daggermaster.
Bard also gets you a free heal with a slide 1(which can be tactically awesome at times - slide 1 away from the thing with immediate actions in melee that's marked you, throw daggers, then do a normal move away from it)
Daggermaster does all the obvious things
The free action/trigger/minor action powers mean that you use them and Twin Strike rather than an action that is similar to Twin Strike with stat modifiers.
Could anyone state what tier combat virtuoso is, and if it has a pre-req?
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1 year ago ::
Apr 19, 2009 - 6:30PM
#9
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Could anyone state what tier combat virtuoso is, and if it has a pre-req?
It is heroic and at least has the prereq of being bard. But isn't that useful until you can use it with multiple powers. At heroic, you'll typically use twin strike for an opening ranged attack and then close in to use your other powers.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 21, 2009 - 6:31PM
#10
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Major upgrade in Arcane Power for Epic levels.
At 21st, you pick up Multiclass Mastery - which gives you 2 additional multiclass feats(and this build gets the prereqs)
There's all kinds of hurt that can happen from that, including say Barbarian and Avenger - 6 attacks with Hurricane of Blades, 18-20 crit chance, and roll twice for each...with Two-Weapon Opening attached to any crits.
You need to juggle the stats a little, but...
[edit: ignore this, won't work with character builder]
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