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Switch to Forum Live View "Thunderglaive" - swordmage|wizard controller
4 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2009 - 4:05PM #1
runreallyfast
Date Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 1,128
Here, we have a character whose aim it is to inconvenience monsters greatly. Starting at 2nd level, his thunderwave will knock monsters prone, in addition to pushing them. His wizard side is initially focused on immobilizing zones.

Eladrin swordmage|wizard, 2nd level

You could be a Deva as well and do this at 2nd level; you could be a human with a 16 INT and do it at 1st level (and have Magic Missile as well, for some really sneaky Reaper's Touch/Polearm Gamble stuff which Sithobi1 links to); or you could be a Stormsoul Genasi and do it at 4th level - taking as much advantage from Promise of Storm as anyone ever will.


STR 13
CON 10
DEX 15
INT 18
WIS 15
CHA 8

HP: 27 AC 15 Fort|Ref|Will: 12|15|15
Hybrid Aegis of Shielding, Cantrips
Skills: Acrobatics, Arcana, Endurance, Religion, Heal

Feats: Battle Awareness (heal), Polearm Momentum
At Will: Thunderwave, Booming Blade
Encounter: Grasping Shadows (a short duration zone, but a zone)
Daily: Dimensional Thunder
Utility: Shield
Weapon & Implement: Glaive

As you use your implement glaive on thunderwave, you will wisely knock your opponents back two squares, triggering polearm momentum, and leaving them prone. Towards the end of your career, you will knock them back more like 10 squares...

Progression through heroic: Spoiler: Show


3rd level: Transposing Lunge
4th level: +1 INT, +1 WIS, Implement Mastery: heavy blades
5th level: Grasp of the Grave (mmm...they take damage when I push them into it, they are DAZED, they are knocked prone - it will take them a while to get out. The first round, they get to stand up.)
6th level: Amarthor's Step, Enlarge Spell (-2 to damage to increase the size of my blast - from the Arcane Power excerpts) - I'll take it, assuming that's really what it does
7th level: Winter's Wrath (it's a zone; extra damage from Thunderwave isn't a bad thing)
8th level: +1 INT, +1 WIS, White Lotus Riposte (INT damage to an opponent I hit with an arcane at will power if they attack me)
9th level: Ice Storm
10th level: +1 INT, +1 WIS, Leather Proficiency, Dimensional Dodge
11th level: +1 to all stats, Resounding Thunder (increase thunder blast & burst by 1) Paragon Path: Blood Mage, Encounter: Blood Pulse (yum)



Snapshot at 11th level: Spoiler: Show

STR 14
CON 11
DEX 16
INT 21
WIS 18
CHA 9

HP: 78 AC 24 Fort|Ref|Will: 19|22|23

At Will: Thunderwave, Booming Blade
Encounter: Fey Step, Grasping Shadows, Transposing Lunge, Winter's Wrath, Blood Pulse
Daily: Dimensional Thunder, Grasp of the Grave, Wall of Fire
Utility: Dimensional Dodge, Shield, Amarthor's Step
Feats: Resounding Thunder, Polearm Momentum, Battle Awareness, Leather Proficiency, Implement Mastery (heavy blades), Enlarge Spell, White Lotus Riposte

At this point, we have an at-will blast 5 attack that pushes all opponents back 4 squares (more, with item help), knocks them prone, and gives a minor action shift if you hit someone. This combos well with Blood Pulse, I understand, because you can get them ALL the turn afterward, dealing an extra 4d6 damage to every target. You can teleport twice per combat. Grasping Shadows and Winter's Wrath give you a couple of mild encounter based zones to drop enemies into; Grasp of the Grave and Wall of Fire give you a couple of encounter-long zones to have them visit.


Paragon Progression: Spoiler: Show

12th level: Soul Burn (utility), White Lotus Master Riposte (repeat the thunderwave attack against an enemy I hit who attacks me? Ooh...)
13th level: Frostburn to replace Grasping Shadows
14th level: +1 INT, +1 WIS; Arcane Reach (mmm)
15th level: Reaper's Challenge to replace Dimensional Thunder
16th level: Displacement; War Wizardry (-5 to hit allies in blast, half damage - just in case my allies haven't learned their lesson and worked on their thunder resistance)
17th level: Spidersilk Slash to replace Transposing Lunge
18th level: +1 INT, +1 WIS; Weapon Focus: Heavy Blades
19th level: Evard's Black Tentacles to replace Wall of Fire
20th level: Destructive Salutation; Hybrid Talent (Arcane Implement Mastery - pick orbs)
21st level: Demigod; +1 all stats, divine spark (INT & WIS), Martial Resolve, Spell Accuracy (replaces War Wizardry)


Snapshot at 21st level: Spoiler: Show

STR 15
CON 12
DEX 17
INT 26
WIS 23
CHA 10

HP 124 AC 37 Fort|Ref|Will: 26|32|33
At Will: Thunderwave, Booming Blade
Encounter: Fey Step, Frostburn, Spidersilk Slash, Winter's Wrath, Blood Pulse
Daily: Reaper's Challenge, Grasp of the Grave, Evard's Black Tentacles, Destructive Salutation
Utility: Dimensional Dodge, Shield, Amarthor's Step, Soulburn, Displacement
Feats: Resounding Thunder, Polearm Momentum, Battle Awareness, Leather Proficiency, Implement Mastery (heavy blades), Enlarge Spell, White Lotus Riposte, White Lotus Master Riposte, Weapon Focus (heavy blades), Arcane Reach, Spell Accuracy, Martial Resolve, Hybrid Talent - Arcane Implements.

With Rushing Cleats and a Ring of Ramming, you can have some attractive push 8, knock prone at will action - in a blast 5. You can omit up to 6 allies from that blast...if an enemy is fast enough to charge you after that, you can do it to him again.


Epic Progression: Spoiler: Show


22nd: Mass Fly, Epic Resurgence
23rd: Thunder Riposte & Crushing Titan's Fist for Winter's Wrath and Spidersilk Slash
24th: +1 INT, +1 WIS, Robust Defenses
25th: Necrotic Web for Evard's Black Tentacles
26th: Divine Regeneration, Arcane Mastery
27th: Confusion for Frostburn
28th: +1 INT, +1 STR, Implement Expertise (orb)
29th: Legion's Hold for Grasp of the Grave
30th: Divine Miracle, Epic Fortitude
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2009 - 4:10PM #2
Lord_Ventnor
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 5,399
Not bad.

One thing I'd change is that I'd say go with Aegis of Assault. Perhaps it's weaker than Aegis of Shielding, but your Shielding Aegis isn't going to be reducing much damage because of your low CON.
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2009 - 4:30PM #3
runreallyfast
Date Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 1,128

Lord_Ventnor wrote:

Not bad.

One thing I'd change is that I'd say go with Aegis of Assault. Perhaps it's weaker than Aegis of Shielding, but your Shielding Aegis isn't going to be reducing much damage because of your low CON.


Thanks.

The problem is that the Aegis of Assault isn't going to be doing all that much damage, either, because of my lousy weapon. But you may well be right.

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2009 - 4:54PM #4
Sithobi1
Date Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 948
I made a similar build, using Magic Missile and Reaper's Touch along with Polearm Gamble.
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2009 - 5:21PM #5
runreallyfast
Date Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 1,128

Sithobi1 wrote:

I made a similar build, using Magic Missile and Reaper's Touch along with Polearm Gamble.


It's a nice, but actually quite different build. I wanted to use Polearm Gamble, but it only works on attacks with the weapon keyword. (Edit: oops, I am stupid; I was thinking of Heavy Blade Opportunity)

This build is entirely dedicated to knocking opponents prone (and pushing them into damage zones) every round with Thunderwave, from 2nd level on, in blasts of increasing size.

The link I'm seeing has Thunderlance, which is a nice enough power, and is, perhaps, relying on Magic Missile Wand push stuff? Are you sure it works when you don't wield the wand to do it? Are you sure it will work at all with Polearm Gamble?

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 10, 2009 - 5:52PM #6
Shimeran
  • Stampeding Hybrid
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2007
Posts: 545
Heh, I literally just thought of the thunderwave + controlling glaive combo minutes before finding this thread. I may actually try this out. I've been playing a dwarven thunderwave mage for a few months now and I've been looking for some ways to get more out of it. Autoprone sounds like a very nice addition.

On a side note, you don't have to be a hybrid to use this option. With the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat you can use heavy blades as implements. Granted you'd also have to spend a feat on glaive proficiency as a wizard.

That being said, I've been itching to try out the hybrid rules. I was just thinking of which class it would be best to merge with my push-bot. This may very well decide it. :D
Interested in a rambling collection of game ideas? Check out Schemes of the Dancing Chimera.
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2009 - 2:37AM #7
runreallyfast
Date Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 1,128

Shimeran wrote:

Heh, I literally just thought of the thunderwave + controlling glaive combo minutes before finding this thread. I may actually try this out. I've been playing a dwarven thunderwave mage for a few months now and I've been looking for some ways to get more out of it. Autoprone sounds like a very nice addition.


You totally don't need a controlling glaive, of course. If you qualify for Polearm Momentum, you'll push far enough.

On a side note, you don't have to be a hybrid to use this option. With the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat you can use heavy blades as implements. Granted you'd also have to spend a feat on glaive proficiency as a wizard.


I expect you're right, but it's hard to know for sure without seeing the actual feat. Has it been spoiled somewhere? This build doesn't especially use swordmage, and would be happy to get rid of it...although it takes the basic thing from something you can do at 2nd level to something you can do at 6th level.

That being said, I've been itching to try out the hybrid rules. I was just thinking of which class it would be best to merge with my push-bot. This may very well decide it. :D


Good luck!

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2009 - 3:59AM #8
Sithobi1
Date Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 948

runreallyfast wrote:

It's a nice, but actually quite different build. I wanted to use Polearm Gamble, but it only works on attacks with the weapon keyword. (Edit: oops, I am stupid; I was thinking of Heavy Blade Opportunity)

This build is entirely dedicated to knocking opponents prone (and pushing them into damage zones) every round with Thunderwave, from 2nd level on, in blasts of increasing size.

The link I'm seeing has Thunderlance, which is a nice enough power, and is, perhaps, relying on Magic Missile Wand push stuff? Are you sure it works when you don't wield the wand to do it? Are you sure it will work at all with Polearm Gamble?


The wand doesn't require that you attack with it, so you just hold it in your offhand while you wield the glaive in your main hand. Polearm Gamble grants you a melee basic, Reaper's Touch makes Magic Missile a melee basic...

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4 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2009 - 4:24AM #9
mdonais
Date Joined: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 1,027
Nice build. Depending on your campaign you might be able to use the Gritty Sergeant background to get your proficiency and do this with a normal wizard without too much pain.

In theory you could do it at level 2 with a human wizard, but your int would go down because of the MAD so it isn't really worth it.


====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
level 4
Eladrin, Wizard
Build: War Wizard
Arcane Implement Mastery: Orb of Imposition
Gritty Sergeant: Weapon Proficiency (Glaive)
Background: Gritty Sergeant

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 10, Dex 15, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 8.

Starting Ability Scores
Str 13, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 16, Wis 15, Cha 8.


AC: 17 Fort: 14 Reflex: 17 Will: 18
HP: 32 Surges: 6 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Perception, Arcana, Religion, History, Diplomacy, Athletics.

FEATS
1: Ritual Caster
1: Battle Awareness
2: Polearm Momentum
4: Arcane Implement Proficiency

POWERS
1, At-Will: Thunderwave
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======
Mike Donais.
Cryptozoic R&D
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4 years ago  ::  Apr 11, 2009 - 10:36AM #10
Shimeran
  • Stampeding Hybrid
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2007
Posts: 545

runreallyfast wrote:

I expect you're right, but it's hard to know for sure without seeing the actual feat. Has it been spoiled somewhere? This build doesn't especially use swordmage, and would be happy to get rid of it...although it takes the basic thing from something you can do at 2nd level to something you can do at 6th level.


I don't want to spoil too much, but I will say you may want to check out rpg.net for some interesting info. From what I've seen the feat:


  • Lets you select any type of implement used by an arcane class
  • Applies to all your arcane powers
  • Specifically mentions what happens if the chosen implement is a weapon
Interested in a rambling collection of game ideas? Check out Schemes of the Dancing Chimera.
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