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Switch to Forum Live View The Tenacious Troubadour
4 years ago  ::  Oct 10, 2009 - 3:06PM #31
brightbane
Date Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 170

I actually started a character based on your idea, because I really liked it.
( I am actually going for paladin and my next power at lvl 8 will prolly be Wrath of Gods :P)



I am looking forward on your update and hope you'll do it soon

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 12, 2009 - 12:45PM #32
Paulos
Date Joined: Nov 13, 2008
Posts: 723

Sorry for the long other build I posted in the middle of this thread.  It thought the thread was dead and wanted to see if there was any interest in a diverging variation.

Still, having played with my Str/Cha hybrid build a bunch, I've thought about this one too.

I'd recommend checking out the Mark of Healing (grant a save to every target of your healing powers, every time!)

With wisdom, you'd be better with the Artificer's Infusion of the day, and possibly some summoning/tinkering, though you'd need Virtuoso to replace the Int rolls with Cha.  Are any Artificer powers worth it?

With all that Con, you might get some benefit from the Shielding swordmage too actually, and maintain your songblade as a single weapon/implement.  You'd neet 13 INT for the MC.  Any thoughts on these? I like the flavor of Arcane Deflection (Daily 9) personally for my character (a swashbuckler-pirate-type), but I'll only have the INT at epic and then its not quite worth it.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2009 - 10:16AM #33
Fobious
Date Joined: Oct 13, 2009
Posts: 13

And I like the idea of taking the 13 wis for multiclass cleric,  and I agree that  Sever the Source is good.  Cleric adds as much healing as warlord mc.  Also 13 wis opens up some primal multiclasses for getting the hide feat we need.  I like shaman cause I like the spirit companion, which would add maybe a little more healing power, but not much really.  Also, it makes perception not susk as much...   


Also, I was wondering if you wanted a familiar.  I like em, even for flavor, but are there any that are treally optimal?  By epic tier the Canione construct will be giving you resist 3 to all melee and ranged attacks.  The frog lets those next to you heal more.  The parrot helps as party face.  I dunno.  I can't decide.  I like so many of them

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2009 - 10:28AM #34
Paulos
Date Joined: Nov 13, 2008
Posts: 723

There's always the quickdraw hand/claw if you want to use any fancy wands +-or normal magic weapons for Weapon attacks, though that's more expensive.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 14, 2009 - 11:54AM #35
Parshias337
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 238

Got a copy of Primal Power early today, and started working on updating the build.  Here's a little blurb of what I'm looking at so far:


-MC to Cleric and either Shaman or Druid in heroic.


-Take Sever the Source at 18 in place of where the current build took Hail of Steel.


-Take Magic Weapon as my Dilettante power rather than Commander's Strike, and take Combat Virtuoso to make it use CHA to hit.


-MC into Artificier at epic, and take Lightning Sigil in place of Horrifying Truth. (hate to see a good stun power go, but Lightning Sigil can give a whole load of damage to one person)


-Possibly dropping Psychic Lock and Vexing Flanker.  Since Magic Weapon only boosts an ally adjacent to me, I might not get to flank often, and I may start using Magic Weapon as my primary at-will over Viscious Mockery, so Psychic Lock loses some use.


-Will look at familiars after class, might be able to find something nice.


-Will have to go through a ton of classes to see if I can cherrypick a good Utility power.  Can still grab a Warlord power as long as I put an 11 in STR to start.  Also might check out Paladin, or just get one from the classes I've already MCed into.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2009 - 11:47AM #36
Parshias337
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 238

There.  Got it updated.  Rather than talk about the build, I'll just say I spent the last 10 minutes not updating the build, but struggling with the new forum's formatting in order to make the first post not look like a terrible, jumbled mess.  I barely succeeded.  There are still huge gaps between sections for no discernable reason.  My post seems to change its spacing properties of its own accord, regardless of whether or not I have changed anything.  I well and truly hate this new formatting.


Fuming aside, this should be the best version of the build yet.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2009 - 12:46PM #37
Paulos
Date Joined: Nov 13, 2008
Posts: 723

Looks great.  I don't know why I like this build so much.

Questions: Do you ever forsee actually using Wildshape?
Also what put your speed up to 8?
And with all those defenses, are you sure you don't want to be a semi-defender? Swordmage (no mark nevermind)?

On formatting, is Shift+Enter the only way to make normal line breaks?

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 15, 2009 - 5:46PM #38
Parshias337
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 238

Oct 15, 2009 -- 12:46PM, Paulos wrote:


Looks great.  I don't know why I like this build so much.

Questions: Do you ever forsee actually using Wildshape?
Also what put your speed up to 8?
And with all those defenses, are you sure you don't want to be a semi-defender? Swordmage?

On formatting, is Shift+Enter the only way to make normal line breaks?




I was unaware that Shift + Enter would do that.  I was doing it the hard way by copying it from Word with normal spacing and fooling around with it.  Well, at least its good to know that works.


I don't know if Wild Shape will ever be incredibly useful, but I needed a Primal MC, and a Wild Shape I use just for fooling around with RP or whatever is better than a Spirit Companion I have no powers to use with.


Speed is 8 because I'm no longer wearing Plate.  Sandals of Avandra give +2 to speed, and my base speed is back to 6 since I'm in Hide now.


It would still be possible to do a little bit of off-Defending.  Would most likely drop Mark of Healing in order to take whichever MC feat, since the Mark seems like the most expendable feat to swap for it.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 16, 2009 - 4:00AM #39
Urtwink
Date Joined: Apr 6, 2007
Posts: 11

Great concept. Been thinking about variants thereof for a while now, so I'll stop lurking moar and actually start posting.


Imo, the real strength here is less the BIG once-per day Fragment of the Song Nova, but the effortless, ressource-unintensive "mini-nova" a Chanter can put out pretty much every  encounter. So I feel the Encounter Nova is the more interesting aspect to optimize here.


 


Some questions before I go into some of my thoughts on that:


- You say your setup phase stuff lasts all encounter. Battle Chant in particular doesn't, though?


- Luminary Ring is probably one of the most vaguely worded items in the game. The kinds of powers it affects generally are not "ranged", but bursts and such. As such the term "range" in its description cannot be a precise game mechanical term, but must be a "normal language" word, for "whatever distance measurement the power uses".  Thus it should by all standards affect "adjacent" "ranges" and increase them. This would greatly benefit the usability your Magic Weapon at-will there to get your backline buffed with it too.


 


That done, some thoughts and Ideas about improving Encounter Nova powah:


- Our driving goal should be to get Inspire by Example out pretty much every encounter. Thus we need an action point generation infrastructure, for which we need or at least could use outside help. Cleric MC is taken early, so we can use Symbols of Victory right when we start needing them, which is good. A good portion of our DIUs should probably be earmarked for these. We still need crits to get those delicious AP though. In Paragon, Divine Oracle teammate would be ideal here to toss us an autocrit in the mop-up phase of the encounter, failing that we can try to rely on natural crits (underlevelled Jagged Weapon?) and/or rationing IBE (boo!) when the encounter is weak enough. In Epic, there are more options for team help (Action grant, Legendary General) of which *something* might well be present, so this is largely a Paragon playability issue. (Actually, Legendary General is great for the Fragment Nova anyway. This guy really really wants Boulder as his tank :D)


- In epic, a solid addition to our ressource cheap Nova would be Adjure the Chosen, I think. Cleric U22 Encounter Power, Standard action, group+self get +2 power bonus to attack, damage, speed, and 18-20 crit range ENT. Standard action non-attack buffs hurt, but this is a strong enough one to justify the cost imo.  We're already cleric MC anyway, and don't even have to lose the excellent Severe the Source for it, since thats an attack power (despite also not actually attacking). Overlaps with the hit buff from Battle Chant, we can just leave that for later in the encounter. We'd also lose Climactic Chord, but thats a daily anyway, which I'm biased against in this list. :P


- We have one (or more, if we include Adjure) Cleric encounter powers, and any serious (ideally any period, AP infrastructure permitting) encounter has us spend an AP. Divine Mastery to get that power back for another turn of buffage after the first seems worth consideration.


- No mention of the absurdly strong value as a BUFF that Majestic Word gets for a Fatesinger.  Fate's Clarity gives the targets (2 due to Supreme Majesty) the rerolls even if they spend no surge for the Word, so they can get buffed without wasting long-term/daily ressources, ie surges. (Some heal capacity *in this encounter only* is wasted, sure, but that's worth it to maul the encounter to near-triviality in the opening gambit, sufficiently less healing is probably going to be required to make up for it). This reroll with Adjure from above gives 2 people Avenger-like critfishing in the Nova turn (accuracy too, but IBE should cover the autohit)


- Quickened Spellcasting could allow us to add one of our buff at-wills to the 2 non-attack-buff standard actions. That has to hit though, and we're already at 2-3 strong hit-independent effects, so adding hit dependency would be a style fail. I'm not convinced. Incidentally, since with Adjure we don't need to hit anymore for vital effects and would habitually spend our AP on a non-attack, we could kick Action Surge after Paragon.


- For a casual nova, we obviously don't want to spend 2 AP, getting one to spend each encounter is nontrivial enough. We can still use our second AP use from the lvl 16 feature though, by wagering it to give someone another Action during the buff via Destiny Fulfilled. That's gonna be pretty much auto-hit, so we'll get it back. For real lulz, have this be another big hit independent buff of theirs to improve the Nova if available. (Relentless Assault would be awesome with the groupwide critfishing I'm suggesting here, but getting that often enough to count as semi-casual nova requires rather specific build, I want to keep constraints on other groupmember builds to a minimum, ie nothing beyond "GIEF AP OR NO BUFF FOR U")


- Boots of Eagerness should be kept in mind here if we dig up another minor action buff (like Quickened magic Weapon), but for now the regular alotment+AP is enough: move in position if needed, standard Adjure, AP standard Sever, minor Majestic Word.


- This was a whole lot of ideas about encounter novaing, but the daily fragment nova DOES get improved by this too. For one, we can do this in the fragment encounter too (and just add some dailies to taste with the bonus actions), improving it alot. More importantly, the encounter Nova is brutal enough that everyone except us should rarely need APs in normal encounters, so saving enough AP for everyone to have however much they can spend on the Big One should be trivial.

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4 years ago  ::  Oct 16, 2009 - 8:33AM #40
Parshias337
Date Joined: Sep 19, 2007
Posts: 238

Ah, my mind totally slipped on Battle Chant.  I honestly thought it was all encounter long.


I looked at Adjure the Chosen, but decided to pass, as I wasn't sure how effective the added crit range would be.  Its at epic, so most people in the party should have a 19-20 range by then.  Mostly I built this character to be pretty useful in whatever party he would be put into.  I worry that if his teammates aren't focused on critfishing then they would not benefit as much from the expanded crit range.


The methods to get more APs are certainly good, although I built the Bard without bothering to assume any party support.  I was also mainly focusing on the big Daily nova, so I didn't think much about individual encounter novas.  The only reason I don't include the buffed Majestic Word into the nova is that I honestly couldn't find any space to fit it in.


But your post reminds me of an idea I had way back when I made the first version of this build, which might be a good idea to start up now: The Party Nova Challenge.  Essentially a optimization challenge to see who can make a team of four who can bring the biggest Nova after one turn of set-up.  Just put them up against some unmoving blob with varying defenses depending on what level of challenge it is.  It could also be split up into which group has the best Encounter and Daily Novas, not only who gets the overall biggest bang, but who can bring the hurt any time of the day.

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