Community

 
Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 1 of 10  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 10 Next
Stay back! The joy of OAs--starring Glen "The Glaive"
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 11:22AM #1
Zaruthustran
Posts: 264
Date Joined: 08/27/02
This is a repost from a 6/4/2008 post on Enworld (http://www.enworld.org/editpost.php?do= … p=4269960), but I'm seeing a few other fighter/warpriest builds now and thought I'd ask this board's feedback on Glen. Without further ado:

---

One of the improvements in 4E was an overhaul of Reach. Reach now simply allows you to attack nonadjacent enemies. It doesn’t automatically give you an AOO (or OA) on incoming medium-size creatures.

That is, unless you take the paragon feat Polearm Gamble. This gives an opportunity attack when an enemy enters a square adjacent to you.

Fighters, by the way, have a class feature called Combat Superiority that gives +Wis to attack on opportunity attacks, and the additional benefit of “An enemy struck by your opportunity attack stops moving, if a move provoked the attack.”

The rules for Opportunity Attack say it’s an interrupt, meaning it interrupts the action that triggered it. This is further explained as saying that “if an interrupt invalidates a triggering action, that action is lost.”

You can see where I’m going with this.

A fighter with a reach weapon can effectively keep opponents at bay. Enemy moves adjacent to fighter, triggers OA, gets hit, is forced to stop moving--the move-to-adjacent is invalidated, and so the enemy is stuck out of reach of the fighter. On fighter’s turn, fighter attacks at reach and then shifts away, preventing the enemy from simply shifting into range next turn.

It’s the beauty of the spring-attacking reach fighter of 3E all over again.

Other synergy: stack the feats Combat Reflexes (+1 untyped bonus to OAs), Blade Opportunist (+2 untyped bonus to OAs with heavy blade), and Heavy Blade Opportunity (use at-will power with OA). If you’ve got the con to spare (this build doesn’t), throw in Potent Challenge (add Con to damage to OAs from Combat Challenge class feature). Use a glaive, since it’s both a polearm and a heavy blade.

This isn’t a magic bullet or exceptionally uber build, just something I found interesting.

Glen “the Glaive” Staverson
Human Fighter, Warpriest paragon path
Str 18
Con 11
Dex 14
Int 8
Wis 15
Cha 10

At 16th level: Str 22, Dex 16, Wis 18. We put the level 14 stat bump into Dex so we can qualify for Heavy Blade Mastery at level 21.


Feats:
1. Weapon Focus: heavy blade (human bonus)
1. Toughness
2. Multiclass: Cleric
4. Action Surge
6. Blade Opportunist
8. Combat Reflexes
10. Power Attack
11. Polearm Gamble
11. Heavy Blade Opportunity (RETRAIN POWER ATTACK)
12. Uncanny Dodge (to mitigate the pesky downside of Polearm Gamble)
14. Scale Specialization
16. Power Attack

Toughness to help offset the low Con. Multiclass Cleric because the more healing, the merrier, and because it unlocks Warpriest.

There are a number of paragon paths that would fit (kensai, the ever-popular pit fighter, sword master, etc.), but I chose Warpriest because it helps with AC, Extra Damage Action is always nice, and the reroll mitigates the disappointment of rolling a 1 when you spend your daily. More importantly, it has a wonderful 16th level class feature called Warpriest’s Challenge.

Warpriest’s Challenge is similar to the fighter’s Combat Challenge, but with three important differences:

1. Instead of granting a basic attack if a marked enemy shifts or attacks someone other than you, it grants an Opportunity Attack.
2. There’s no requirement that the OA be made against an adjacent marked enemy.
3. The mark isn't placed until you hit with an at-will attack.


The first two differences are very important to this reach-equipped, OA-optimized character. Especially #2; the general requirement for Opportunity Attack is "Able to Attack: You can’t make an opportunity
attack unless you are able to make a melee basic attack and you can see your enemy." With a reach weapon, you're able to make a melee basic attack against a nonadjacent foe (that's the point of reach). So off you go, nailing the enemy you stopped last turn when he tries to shift away (or attack someone else).

The mitigating factor is the third difference: unlike Combat Challenge, the mark for Warpriest’s Challenge doesn’t get placed unless you hit with an at-will melee attack. Fortunately, thanks to Heavy Blade Opportunity and Polearm Gamble, you’ll be making lots of at-will attacks.

It’s pretty cool. It lets you really control the battlefield, and put that reach weapon to devastating use--each OA from Warpriest’s Challenge can be a cleave or reaping strike.

Also, the utility power is very useful for this relatively low-AC, damage-prone fighter: if an enemy does manage to close (which is tough), he’ll be hit a LOT. But even though Battle Cry and Battle Pyres both key off Wis instead of Str, Glen’s Wis is pretty high--and the Effect of Battle Cry, a mass healing surge for you and your bloodied friends, doesn’t require a hit.

So there’s a fighter optimized for reach and OAs. Polearm Gamble is also an interesting choice for paladins, clerics, and warlords. Honestly, if you’re going to use a two-handed weapon it might as well be a reach weapon, and if you’re going to use a reach weapon there’s no better feat than Polearm Gamble. So if you’re thinking of building one of those classes, give consideration to the choices made by Glen.

-z

PS here're the rules text from p290, and a look at the step-by-step process:

Opportunity Attacks are interrupts. The rule says that "an immediate interrupt lets you jump in when a certain trigger condition arises, acting before the trigger resolves. If an interrupt invalidates the triggering action, that action is lost. For example, an enemy makes a melee attack against you, but you use a power that lets you shift away as an immediate interrupt. If your enemy can no longer reach you, the
enemy’s attack action is lost."

So the trigger is "enemy moves adjacent", but if you successfully hit, that action--moving adjacent--is interrupted, and never completes. The enemy is stuck where you hit him thanks to Combat Superiority.

Here's more from Opportunity Attack, specifically: "Interrupts Target’s Action: An opportunity action takes place before the target finishes its action."

In other words, the enemy says "I'm moving adjacent!" and Glen says "Okay, but I get to attack you first. Whack. Sorry, you're stuck on the end of my glaive, 1 square away."
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 12:10PM #2
C_A
Posts: 185
Date Joined: 06/10/08
Looks very similar to a character I posted slightly after the other thread (I don't visit enworld's forums) on these forums: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1045011 So, I obviously think that Fighter/Warpriest is an outstanding pick! Nice job. Haha

The only fundamental difference between our builds is your glaive instead of my sword and board. Personally, I like having a shield better than having reach (and polearm gamble) and here's why.

First, reach doesn't normally let you make OA's at reach, other than the one granted by Polearm Gamble. It's good if someone has to get past you, but no better than not having reach if they are already in position or can get around you.

The order of targets from the enemy perspective is probably something like Leader > Controller > Striker > Defender. You are tough to kill and don't have a major reason to be targetted other than to make it easier to kill the things that they REALLY want to kill. I just don't see enemies taking the time to chase you around the battlefield unless they can't find any way past you. Otherwise, they'll just make an end-run around you with a move-charge and suck the -2 from the mark when applicable. You can really only stop that once per round because of the limit on immediate actions, and only then if they can't avoid trying to move adjacent to you.

Now the sword and board isn't any better in that respect. The advantages come in being a little more durable and having the ability to push enemies with both OA's and your Fighter's Challenge immediate interrupt. You won't always be in a position to make it work but when you are, this allows you to negate their attack action if you can push them out of range. Even if you can't, distracting shield makes their attack roll suffer even more than the mark already does.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 12:45PM #3
SeraphimDominion
Posts: 846
Date Joined: 11/03/05
The jury is still out on whether Polearm Gamble actually works the way you describe. Yes, OA's are interrupts and happen "before" the offending action is complete. But note the difference in language between the OAs provoked from normal movement (which occur as the opponent is LEAVING a square) with the one from Gamble (which occurs when the ENTER the adjacent square)

I definitely read that differently than you do. I think the enemy would get adjacent, THEN be forced to stop moving from the OA. Otherwise Polearm Gamble is WAAAY too good.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 2:06PM #4
TubercularOx
Posts: 33
Date Joined: 04/10/08

SeraphimDominion wrote:

I definitely read that differently than you do. I think the enemy would get adjacent, THEN be forced to stop moving from the OA. Otherwise Polearm Gamble is WAAAY too good.


If that's the one reading, then the other reading would have to be (for a fighter stopping a fleeing monster) that the monster gets nonadjacent, then is forced to stop moving.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 2:27PM #5
Erhnamdj
Posts: 1,267
Date Joined: 08/07/03
SeraphimDominion, are you saying that what the rules say... is based on what the consequences of those rules would be?
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 2:52PM #6
SeraphimDominion
Posts: 846
Date Joined: 11/03/05

ErhnamDJ wrote:

SeraphimDominion, are you saying that what the rules say... is based on what the consequences of those rules would be?


I'm not sure what you mean. I'm saying that I think the difference between the wording on movement OA's and the wording on Polearm Gamble implies that they do not work the same way as each other.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 2:54PM #7
SeraphimDominion
Posts: 846
Date Joined: 11/03/05

TubercularOx wrote:

If that's the one reading, then the other reading would have to be (for a fighter stopping a fleeing monster) that the monster gets nonadjacent, then is forced to stop moving.


No, because normal movement OA's happen as the monster is LEAVING the square. So the fighter would get to cancel that movement with his OA and Combat Superiority.

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 3:11PM #8
Fwib
Posts: 414
Date Joined: 09/22/01
Problem:

Reach]...opportunity attacks only against adjacent enemies...


[edit]solution: Tide of Iron to shove them away.
[edit2] ....or not. needs a sh wrote:

...opportunity attacks only against adjacent enemies...[/quote]
[edit]solution: Tide of Iron to shove them away.
[edit2] ....or not. needs a shield

Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 3:12PM #9
DDogwood
Posts: 417
Date Joined: 04/28/05
edit: I missed something, this should work.
Quick Reply
Cancel
2 years ago  ::  Jun 17, 2008 - 3:16PM #10
Seeker_Of_Truth
Posts: 626
Date Joined: 08/17/07
DDogwood see Combat Superiority page 76.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 10  •  1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 10 Next
Post Reply
Jump Menu:
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing