I wanted to see how viable a you could make the Fighter-Wizard Paragon Multiclass. Using Thunderwave at-will to mark multiple opponents is obviously powerful, but the combination is generally considered weak. I thought it was worth exploring what the optimal Fighter-Wizard would look like.
I'd be interested in seeing other Fighter-Wizard Paragon builds, as well as hearing ideas on how to improve this build.
Feystorm, the Front Line Controller The Feystorm focuses on blast and burst powers that will automatically mark opponents. High hitpoints, high defenses, item powers, and utility powers discourage enemies from attacking directly, while the mark penalties discourage enemies from attacking allies.
[b][SIZE="3"][color=blue]Recommended Equipment[/color][/SIZE][/b] [FONT="Courier New"] Spiked Gauntlet Scale Mail Heavy Shield [/FONT]
Heroic Tier During the Heroic Tier, the Feystorm plays like a generic sword-and-board defender. Feats are used to pick up close powers from the wizard class. Since the Feystorm fights on the front line, it should be easier to set up close blasts that don't hit any allies.
Update: The main feature of this build is using the Spiked Gauntlet (AV p. 10) with an implement (Master's Wand of Thunderwave) to allow the Feystorm to simultaneously wield a weapon, shield, and implement.
Paragon Tier In Paragon Tier, the Feystorm gains Thunderwave at-will, which becomes Blast 4 and Range 2 with Arcane Reach and Resounding Thunder (the Master's Wand of Thunderwave plus Arcane Reach makes it basically a Close Blast 5). All opponents caught in the blast gain a -3 penalty with Daunting Challenge. Multiple pushing abilities make the Feystorm ideal to team up with a zone-focused Wizard.
[b][SIZE="3"][color=blue]Recommended Equipment[/color][/SIZE][/b] [FONT="Courier New"] (28) Titanscale Hydra Armor +6 (29) Tattered Cloak +6 (28) Force Spiked Gauntlet +6 (28) Master's Wand of Thunderwave +6 (26) Heavy Throwing Shield (27) Shadow Band (18) Ring of Ramming (11) Circlet of Mental Onslaught (10) Shielding Girdle (7) Rushing Cleats [/FONT]
Level 30 By level 30, the only Fighter Attack power remaining is Tide of Iron.
Updates - Added the Durable feat during Heroic Tier to add survivability - Removed the Longsword/Star of Corellon combination, as non-Cleric/Paladins can't benefit from the properties of holy symbols - Replaced with Spiked Gauntlet/Master's Wand combination - Adjusted starting stats (-1 DEX, +1 CON) and ending stats to add an extra healing surge at level 30
To expand on this post a little bit, there's a Fighter-Wizard thread going on asking about how to make the combination effective. Most of the responses suggest using Swordmage or Sorceror classes. Other posts suggest using a staff and the Staff Fighting feat (which sounds like it would be pretty effective as well).
When I actually just sat down and built a Fighter-Wizard PMC combination, it felt like it would be highly effective at its job (Controlling + Defending). It's not a big damage dealer, but it's stickier than any other defender (due to multiple-enemy marking) and it has a bigger range than most defenders.
So my question is, why is this combination considered weak? And can those weaknesses be eliminated or accounted for?
In Optimization terms, is there an optimal Fighter-Wizard Build that still remains a Fighter-Wizard?
Updates based on comments - One of the biggest challenges for a Fighter-Wizard is simultaneously wielding a weapon and an implement without giving up defense. Possible solutions: * Spiked Gauntlet / Heavy Shield / Implement * Spiked Shield / One-handed implement * Tempest Fighter / Two-handed Staff Implement / Staff Fighting * Warforged / One-handed Weapon / Heavy Shield / Embedded Implement
- Going "Wizard of the Spiral Tower" is another option, allowing your longsword to double as a weapon. However, it gives up the Thunderwave at-will, which is one of the focuses of this particular build.
- Another big challenge is survivability. The Fighter-Wizard build necessarily focuses on STR and INT (at least until Epic Tier), which means CON won't be too high. Since marking multiple opponents will make you a target, you will need a lot of healing surges (or some other method for staying alive). Possible solutions: * Taking the Durable/Toughness feats early * Playing as a Warforged (for Warforged Resolve racial power) * Choosing encounter-long defensive utilities (Blur, Stoneskin, Boundless Endurance) and items that defend against multiple attackers (Cloak of Protection, Tattered Cloak, Hydra Armor).
Well, if you actually want to be a defender, then the first obvious challenge is going to be your low number of healing surges.
With this build you'd end up with 11 surges? I didn't see the durability feat in your build, but maybe I missed it. Compare that to a very common build: the dwarf fighter who focuses on STR and CON. If he takes both durability and dwarven durability (and they often do) and if he chooses the demigod epic destiny (also common), he'll end up with 20 or 21 surges before gear. And I'd expect him to favor gear that adds additional surges too, so you won't be able to make up much ground there either.
A fighter is generally regarded as a Defender with some Striker built in.
As is, your fighter has NO IMPLEMENT and would at least need quickdraw to bust out a wand or whatever.
So your damage sucks. 1d6 + your weak INT isn't all that impressive. I realize the idea is to multimark, but you want to be able to at least scare the baddies a bit to make them focus you.
You COULD go WotST, which solves the implement problem. However, then you don't get TWave to replace your at-will. This is a problem.
Finally, any sustain effects are tenuous since you are more likely to eat the Daze/Stun than the rest of the party.
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I personally like the Tempest Fighter approach with a Staff of Ruin. It is just a lot more elegant. You ALWAYS have an implement, starting from level 1. Furthermore, your weapon is just as good as any other fighter... Its a 1d8/1d8 double weapon that gives you +1AC. You get a nice damage bonus to your spells via Ruin, and d10 crits with weapon AND spell attacks.
Your high INT lets you stay in light armor and get tempest bonuses to your attacks.
Stats-wise, a Storm Genesai is looking at:
STR 18 DEX 10 CON 11 (yuck) INT 18 WIS 13 CHA 8 (you can lower STR or INT to fill out other stats as desired)
Your starting AC is 10 +3hide +1 double weapon +4INT +1 TWD = 19!
You get full speed which is kind of nice.
You can deliver a nice beating with Double Strike too. You might even get Weapon Focus to your spells too, depending on DM.
My Sorc Guide Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19649162/Joes_Sorcerer_Guide_AP_update_51509
My Genesi Wizard Blaster Link: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/25082729/Miniguide_to_Genesi_LightningThunder_Blaster_Wizard_%2806-2010%29
Well, if you actually want to be a defender, then the first obvious challenge is going to be your low number of healing surges.
I hadn't added in the Durable feat, so that would be a good start. Obviously, there's not much room for it during Heroic Tier (due to all the multiclass feats).
On the other hand, aren't there a lot of Fighter builds that don't focus on having a high CON? Do those builds survive by using the Durable feat, or are there other ways to add survivability?
I think the problem is the lack of damage. A fighter is generally regarded as a Defender with some Striker built in.
Huh, I had always considered the fighter as a Defender with some Controller built in (although options like Tempest Fighter certainly lean towards Striker). Regardless, this particular build is intended to be a close-blast Controller with some Defender built in.
joemama1512 wrote:
I think the problem is the lack of damage. As is, your fighter has NO IMPLEMENT and would at least need quickdraw to bust out a wand or whatever.
This build uses the Star of Corellon as an implement. Sorry, I meant to make that clear in the comments. I'll update the initial post. The Star of Corellon occupies the Holy Symbol slot (which the Fighter-Wizard wasn't using anyway) but can be used as an arcane implement. So there's no need to switch between wand and weapon.
On the other hand, aren't there a lot of Fighter builds that don't focus on having a high CON? Do those builds survive by using the Durable feat, or are there other ways to add survivability?
But if you are the group's main defender, your group is basically done for the day when you run out of surges.
Fair enough. I updated the build to take Durable at level 6. Of course, 12-13 healing surges still may not be enough, but encounter-long utilities like Blur and Stoneskin should at least help with survivability.
Yeah, but without cleric or pally multiclassing, you cannot actually wear a Symbol as far as I know.
Well, you CAN wear it, but it does nothing.
That's certainly interesting. I wasn't aware of that problem. Looking at the "Holy Symbols" section (PHB p. 232), it looks like the Properties of Holy Symbols really are off-limits to non-Cleric/Paladins. So unless they add a feat that lets you access Holy Symbol properties, the build needs to change.
Are there any rules objections to wielding a Spiked Gauntlet while holding an Implement? If not, I'll update the build using that.
