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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 4:19PM
#1
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Battlefield Archer (sure... this Paragon Path is great)... or Pit Fighter (WIS to damage with all weapons [ranged included])?
My feeling says that Pit Fighter does more damage... is this right?
Thanks in advance.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 5:01PM
#2
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Well considering you need to take the fighter multi-class to qualify for pit fighter and that means you must start with 13 Str (well you could put your level up points in it/pick a race with a bonus to Str but that would just be even worse)... I suppose if you went 16 DEX, 14 Wis, 13ish Str... Man that's just an ugly stat arrangement for an Archer. Then when you consider that Battlefield Archer allows you to spend all of your ability points in Dex and Wis. Maybe Pitfighters might still do a point or two more damage on each hit (maybe) but the Battlefield archer will have a better dex (more + to hit/better effects on powers) and more Wis (Better effect on powers). Lets not even get into the fact that most of the pit fighters class advantages are useless to an archer...
I don't think Pit Fighter is likely to be worth it...
`Murkglow
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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 5:24PM
#3
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Well considering you need to take the fighter multi-class to qualify for pit fighter and that means you must start with 13 Str (well you could put your level up points in it/pick a race with a bonus to Str but that would just be even worse)... I suppose if you went 16 DEX, 14 Wis, 13ish Str... Man that's just an ugly stat arrangement for an Archer. Then when you consider that Battlefield Archer allows you to spend all of your ability points in Dex and Wis. Maybe Pitfighters might still do a point or two more damage on each hit (maybe) but the Battlefield archer will have a better dex (more + to hit/better effects on powers) and more Wis (Better effect on powers). Lets not even get into the fact that most of the pit fighters class advantages are useless to an archer...
I don't think Pit Fighter is likely to be worth it...
`Murkglow
What are you saying, man? My stats are for Pit Fighter (with Elf bonuses):
STR: 13
CON: 11
DEX: 18
INT: 10
WIS: 18
CHA: 8
And for Battlefield Archer (again with elf):
STR: 10
CON: 11
DEX: 20
INT: 10
WIS: 16
CHA: 8
So I have more WIS with my Pit Fighter... only my DEX is a little bit lower. My AC is the same (Pit Fighter AC bonus), my attack bonus is one lower...
But on the other hand I have 6 more damage per attack (at level 16). That said: My Twin-Strike does 12 more damage with Pit Fighter! And this difference grows with the levels. And my effect powers are stronger with the Pit Fighter build (more WIS).
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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 5:34PM
#4
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I think the +1 to hit will end up being worth more than the extra damage in the end. Especially as the Pit Fighter abilities are essentially worthless to you as an archer.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 5:41PM
#5
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I think the +1 to hit will end up being worth more than the extra damage in the end. Especially as the Pit Fighter abilities are essentially worthless to you as an archer.
Two of the three Pit Fighter Powers are worthless. The "class features" are great, all of them.
And yes, the -1 to hit is pain in the ass... but: 12 (or more) damage with Twin Strike! And think about attacks that target three or more enemies. And theoretically you can go:
STR: 13
CON: 10
DEX: 20
INT: 10
WIS: 15
CHA: 8
In this case you have more AC, the same attack bonus... deal 8 damage more with Twin Strike (at level 16). I don't really get the point, why you think Battelfield Archer is better.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 6:01PM
#6
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Hmm, you're right about the stats. Forgot 13 was still one point.
I would say then that, yes, if you want to do the most raw damage, a Pit Fighter would likely be the top choice.
A Battlefield archer would be more for utility.
`Murkglow
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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 6:27PM
#7
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You can try your Damage Per Round simulations with various builds with my spreadsheet; see the top of this thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1056336For what it's worth, my experiments lead me to believe that, for the most part, unavoidable damage is what makes the biggest difference (i.e., things like Scimitar Dance and Hammer Rhythm, as well as powers that do half-damage on a miss.) I don't think Archers have access to those though...
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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 10:09PM
#8
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Well considering you need to take the fighter multi-class to qualify for pit fighter and that means you must start with 13 Str ...
Well, technically you could start with a Strength of 12, and use the +1 that you get at 11th level. 'But wait', you say ... 'the listed order of actions for gaining a level say that you have to pick a Paragon Path before choosing a Feat'. Well, with the Retraining rules, you could just switch out a feat at any stage of the process (after the Stat boost), as those rules don't actually have a set place on the list. 
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2 years ago ::
Jul 04, 2008 - 10:11PM
#9
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Well, technically you could start with a Strength of 12, and use the +1 that you get at 11th level. 'But wait', you say ... 'the listed order of actions for gaining a level say that you have to pick a Paragon Path before choosing a Feat'. Well, with the Retraining rules, you could just switch out a feat at any stage of the process (after the Stat boost), as those rules don't actually have a set place on the list.
Very true. Retraining needs to be defined in more detail.
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2 years ago ::
Jul 05, 2008 - 7:25AM
#10
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You can try your Damage Per Round simulations with various builds with my spreadsheet; see the top of this thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1056336
For what it's worth, my experiments lead me to believe that, for the most part, unavoidable damage is what makes the biggest difference (i.e., things like Scimitar Dance and Hammer Rhythm, as well as powers that do half-damage on a miss.) I don't think Archers have access to those though...
My excel isn't working for some reasons at the moment... so: I would like to do it... but I can't.
But it would be nice to see the conclusions. My test damage math offer that the Archer build (regardless of Pit Fighter or Battlefield Archer) have more attack bonus than the TWF-Ranger with scimitars (Prime Shot makes the difference... if it triggers!)... and if you choose an elf to build the TWF-Ranger/Pit Fighter (with bastard swords), your attack bonus with the archer is higher too (because elf don't get +2 to STR, which is the attacking ability of the TWF-Ranger).
In damage the archer seems to be better too. The reasons are the good damage of the longbow (d10), the high damage you add through WIS (in the Archer/Pit Fighter build!) and the good feat Sly Hunter (which can add +3 damage). As you said: unavoidable damage isn't standard for the Archer, but there are a lot of powers which deal half damage on a miss. Again: My feeling says the Archer/Pit Fighter could be deal more damage than a TWF-Ranger/Pit Fighter (in this point I am sure!) and perhaps more than a TWF-Ranger/Stormwarden (not sure in this point... but again: my feeling ).
I would like to see the builds in your spreadsheet, perhaps you can include them one day.
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